Counter canter tips needed

[Saf]

Hi all

Not being dressage trained and if anything having been SJ most of my riding time, I and my dear Saf are having problems with counter canter

having always corrected Saf from breaking her that she should strike off on the correct lead and if on the wrong leg always corrected the lead she now gets stressed when we attempt counter canter.
We joined BD recently and have somehow gained 9 points in a few outings but last time out failed to score any due to the dredded counter canter and produced 4 beautiful flying changes in the 2 tests.
I am trying nov 21 again this weekend and know its going to be the same.

So tips please

I have been trying shallow loops picking up the outside lead but as soon as I get to the corner she stresses and either gets really fast or changes or trying loops back to the track and keeping the canter but again about 3 strides from the track she starts to fizzzzzzzzzzz and changes. I know I lift my seat as she gets stressed which does not help she is also very strong

Help and advice would be great
thanks

 

[Madam_max]

I have exactly the same problem

. My mare having always SJ'd does not understand counter canter. I had lessons with John Lasseter who told me to ride her on the buckle of her rein. The only way I have overcome it is to keep trying (it's still hit and miss). It's mostly the loops back to the track I have problem with. Will you mare pick up counter counter on the long side?

 

[Saf]

Hi

Yes I can easily pick up either lead from anywhere in the school just cant hold it through the corner, I spent one afternoon playing flying changes and months now trying to get to grips with counter canter.
Last time in the school came out of the corner and on one side picked at true canter and back to trot by the next corner and on the next long side counter canter and repeated, now need to master the short side

Ta

 

[Madam_max]

How about a figure of 8 is you make it really sweeping, we can just about manage that albeit looking very awkward

Honestly though I just kept at it with a LOT of inside leg, we are gradually getting there, but I know how you feel

Our flying changes are ace though

 

[henryhorn]

If I can suggest something perhaps can you have a lesson on a schoolmaster?
CCj and her Dad both struggled to do counter canter, and we solved it by doing the above.
The schoolmaster horse will change the second you change position too much or shift your weight, it's a fantastic lesson to see how easlily you are influencing the horse's actions.
They both cracked it on the schoolmaster and found they could maintain it on their own horses afterwards.
I'd like to bet you are moving about causing her to change without realising it..

 

[jellybaby]

Shift your weight ever so gently to the outside - literally by putting more weight on the outside seat bone, and over emphasise the outside bend towards the leading leg, and take it slowly - one step round the corner, then you break her back into trot until the penny drops that she is to maintain the lead ypu have set her on and not change.

Jb xx

 

[Saf]

Thanks HH great idea, trouble with me is my SJ background and now I have realised that to get better at eventing the dressage has to be spot on, I am trying to be a dressage diva on a horse who really does not want to

I will try tomorrow to really think about my position and not shifting my weight and ask a couple of people if I can have a sit on theirs.
Don't tell anyone but I am starting to enjoy this dressage lark

 

[Law]

I was practising this in a lesson the other night as we had to do it in a test on sat

I know it will sound really basic and silly and perhaps your mare is wayyyyyy more advanced and this won't help at all but I was told to keep the bend over the leading leg and to keep my new inside leg really far back to keep the inside hind where it is. We were trying to teach my horse this again as it was 18 months plus since the last time he'd done it

It was half 15m circle return to the track and counter canter to the next marker

 

[Taboo1968]

I can only echo what HH says, but would like to throw a suggestion into the equation here!
I was really struggling with counter canter and my horse is schooled to PSG, and we soon discovered that it was me moving, only very slightly that caused the change back to the correct leg.... so a trainer told me to over emphasise holding back the same shoulder (human shoulder) that the horses leg was leading from..... if that makes sense? It worked for me and once I learnt how to keep still like this, I was soon able to retain the counter canter without any spectacular changes of leg! Basically its the same as putting more weight onto the opposite side!
However it sounds like you are getting there! So throw in a few of the suggestions and keep going! You will get it one day!

 

[Partoow]

OK counter canter is just canter . Keep your balance over the inside leg and 'steer the horse with the outside leg, that is behind the girth. when training it , especially on an ex jumper first of all just do a change of rein from the corner to the midline [G or D] aiming for B or E. Make sure you aid this turn by using your seat and keep the middle of you body tall [lots of riders collapse to the leading leg side in the waist and this actually puts the weight on the wrong seat bone] Also make sure you turn the horse by turning his shoulders not his just his mouth. Then simply ride a trot transition remembering that you make that transition with reference to the leading leg. I.e dont shift your weight. Once you are able to calmly ride this transition and you have the horse waiting for your aids then you can move the point where you ride the trot transition as the horse will now have more confidence that the transition will come and that you will help keep the balance.
At the lower levels you only need to ride thie movement to E or B and then the trot trans before the corner so teaching this way will help you break it down to what is important for you and the horse.
On a half circle it then becomes about you the rider keeping the balance with the leg that is behind the girth to stop them collapsing. Always go back to the idea of looking after the left to right balance so that there is room for the hind leg to step through. It is also important that you dont let the canter change rhythm so the timing of the inside leg aid to the outside rein also becomes more important.

 

[Saf]

Thank you so much for this reply, will print it off so I dont loose it, I also recogonise from this that I need to stay calm and I know I get frustrated and so does Saf, I'm sure I must be collasping

I did manage to hold counter canter right for one end of the school tonight so a small step forward

Thank you partoow and thanks all for the replies