Cows with calves on a bridleway

mariew said:
Hmm I used to have my old horse on a farm with a mixed herd of .dairy and beef cattle. The beef cattle never stopped unnerving me but the dairies were fine. The farmer specifically picked a placid bull as we had to go through cows to get to our fields. Would I ride through a field. Not on your nelly. I'd find somewhere else to ride whilst they were in there. I find them too curious. Walking through ones I know was fine after a couple of weeks of us both bricking it 😂
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When mine were in one of the fields on the dairy farm with a bull, the farmer used to take me on the quad bike to catch the horses and then I had to lead them along the fence line as was told if he came over to let the horses go and get out. 🤣 sounds mad now but it was just normal back then!
 
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I have encountered the following: if a dairy-type bull is kept on a public bridleway, it is a violation of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, and beef bulls can be left only if they are with cows and calves and are not aggressive. Even then it is mandatory warning sign. I would re-write council rights of way officer, attach photo, describe risk for riders. Usually the landowner after a complaint receives an injunction or temporarily fencing off the track electric tape.
 
jovan46 said:
I have encountered the following: if a dairy-type bull is kept on a public bridleway, it is a violation of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, and beef bulls can be left only if they are with cows and calves and are not aggressive. Even then it is mandatory warning sign. I would re-write council rights of way officer, attach photo, describe risk for riders. Usually the landowner after a complaint receives an injunction or temporarily fencing off the track electric tape.
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Why go to all this hassle though? As I said in my post yes there is a right of way however this is a person’s livelihood here? Leisure horse owning is a hobby? When do we get to the entitled point that our hobbies are most important than a persons livelihood?

The cows and bull won’t be there for the whole summer. Cattle are moved. Maybe it’s just in Scotland it’s different and we look at it differently because people have a right to go anywhere in reality. We moan that dog walkers are entitled when this situation comes up with them.

Yes it’s inconvenient for you to ride but really is riding more important than farmers providing?
 
Roasted Chestnuts said:
Why go to all this hassle though? As I said in my post yes there is a right of way however this is a person’s livelihood here? Leisure horse owning is a hobby? When do we get to the entitled point that our hobbies are most important than a persons livelihood?

The cows and bull won’t be there for the whole summer. Cattle are moved. Maybe it’s just in Scotland it’s different and we look at it differently because people have a right to go anywhere in reality. We moan that dog walkers are entitled when this situation comes up with them.

Yes it’s inconvenient for you to ride but really is riding more important than farmers providing?
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It’s a right of way. end of story. I have one in my land and I have to make it accessible with my horses so it’s no different here. It’s not one rule for one and one for another. If people continue going through who on horses who are unaware they could actually be in serious trouble if somebody gets injured. The farmers are on total agreement with me, it’s the landowner that isn’t.
 
If the farmers agree does one of them not have a spare beware of the bull sign or two to add to the entry and exit points to the field? If there are plenty of other routes I'd just stick to the others. I feel you may be fighting a losing battle trying to get a new route if that is not required by law and land owner has no inclination to do this.
 
spotty_pony2 said:
It’s a right of way. end of story. I have one in my land and I have to make it accessible with my horses so it’s no different here. It’s not one rule for one and one for another. If people continue going through who on horses who are unaware they could actually be in serious trouble if somebody gets injured. The farmers are on total agreement with me, it’s the landowner that isn’t.
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If it’s not a dairy bull then there is no action against it. It’s your choice not to ride through.

The ‘it’s a right of way end of story’ is just pure entitlement, a field doesn’t have to be kept empty just in the occasion you want to ride through it.

If the landowner isn’t breaking any conditions then it’s up to choice. I’m so glad I live up here away from this carry on. It’s so much more simple. You either cross the field or don’t. Not stand spitting the dummy out because you can’t get in.
 
Roasted Chestnuts said:
If it’s not a dairy bull then there is no action against it. It’s your choice not to ride through.

The ‘it’s a right of way end of story’ is just pure entitlement, a field doesn’t have to be kept empty just in the occasion you want to ride through it.

If the landowner isn’t breaking any conditions then it’s up to choice. I’m so glad I live up here away from this carry on. It’s so much more simple. You either cross the field or don’t. Not stand spitting the dummy out because you can’t get in.
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It’s not about the bull it’s the cows the calves that are coming over. On the council website it says they must be correctly fenced etc if they have young calves with them as they are known to be unpredictable regardless of breed.
 
Roasted Chestnuts said:
If it’s not a dairy bull then there is no action against it. It’s your choice not to ride through.

The ‘it’s a right of way end of story’ is just pure entitlement, a field doesn’t have to be kept empty just in the occasion you want to ride through it.

If the landowner isn’t breaking any conditions then it’s up to choice. I’m so glad I live up here away from this carry on. It’s so much more simple. You either cross the field or don’t. Not stand spitting the dummy out because you can’t get in.
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I’m not spitting my dummy out - get some manners and don’t be so rude. I am going about it in the appropriate manner and have informers the council. It is now their issue to sort. If I was ‘sptttibg my dummy out’ I’d be banging on their door and having a go at them which would be inappropriate and I am not doing that as that would be wrong.
 
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Trouper said:
Have ridden through them before but not too comfortable about it and, yes, gateways are a nightmare. Once had a really nasty incident on foot with my two GSDs who were firmly on leads as we walked the footpath through the field. However, the calves are so inquisitive that they charged over closely followed by protective mums. We were soon surrounded. Fortunately one of the dogs had the wit to drag herself out of her collar and run off and magically, somewhere out of the ether, the farmer appeared and helped us through the gate. I would never chance that again and other people in the area were not so lucky.
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We keep cattle but I’m still wary of ones I don’t know. Similar happened to me on a long walk in the highlands. We were almost back to the starting point of the walk and a herd of cattle with calves at foot were stood by the gate we needed to get through. My sister picked up her small border terrier and walked through without incident but the moment they saw my big hairy GSD they came lumbering forward, heads down and looking extremely aggressive. My GSD pulled his head out of his collar and took off back the way we’d come 🙈. Thankfully he had the sense not to just keep running (even with the cattle on his tail) but doubled back through some gorse bushes to return to me. It’s pretty frightening.
I’ve had too many near misses over the years to take walking through cattle with a dog lightly 😥
 
Is it worth remembering maybe that the majority of bridleways, and especially the ones through fields, weren't created so leisure riders could have a nice time? They were paths regularly used by people to get from A to B with horses being used as transport, which became defined as bridleways only after path registration became a thing.
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ycbm said:
Is it worth remembering maybe that the majority of bridleways, and especially the ones through fields, weren't created so leisure riders could have a nice time? They were paths regularly used by people to get from A to B with horses being used as transport, which became defined as bridleways only after path registration became a thing.
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Indeed but if I was to have that opinion of the footpath across one of my paddocks I don’t think anybody would be so accommodating and I’d be made to fence the horses off. As I said it can’t be one rule for one and one for another. Unfortunately rules are rules a quick google tells you all you need to know.
 

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spotty_pony2 said:
Indeed but if I was to have that opinion of the footpath across one of my paddocks I don’t think anybody would be so accommodating and I’d be made to fence the horses off. As I said it can’t be one rule for one and one for another. Unfortunately rules are rules a quick google tells you all you need to know.
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Nobody has broken any rules though. As that clearly states, a beef bull can be kept on a right of way as long as he has cows with him.
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spotty_pony2 said:
I’ve tried and she was very rude and told me the cows will be fine and ‘there’s plenty of other bridleways to choose from’. So council are now taking it into their own hands. She is well known around the village and nobody has a nice word to say about her.
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Well, playing Devil's Advocate, she has no obligation to provide an alternative route, for pedestrians, let alone horse-riders. She is probably wary of hooves damaging her land and riders, some of whom can be very entitled, deciding that they can ride across it any time. So long as there is sufficient signage, I can't see what the council can do to help you.
 
ycbm said:
Nobody has broken any rules though. As that clearly states, a beef bull can be kept on a right of way as long as he has cows with him.
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it’s not about the bull. it’s about the cows with calves. It also clearly states further down that cows with calves shouldn’t be kept on a bridleway or any right of way for that matter. The Bull isn’t the issue here.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Well, playing Devil's Advocate, she has no obligation to provide an alternative route, for pedestrians, let alone horse-riders. She is probably wary of hooves damaging her land and riders, some of whom can be very entitled, deciding that they can ride across it any time. So long as there is sufficient signage, I can't see what the council can do to help you.
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They have to electric fence a track which is safe to pass through in that case. It would be much simpler to let riders use the alternative route but if that’s not possible fencing is the next answer but will require a lot more work and expense.
 
spotty_pony2 said:
it’s not about the bull. it’s about the cows with calves. It also clearly states further down that cows with calves shouldn’t be kept on a bridleway or any right of way for that matter. The Bull isn’t the issue here.
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Beef cows will almost always have calves with them, they are kept for breeding in the main. I have never seen anything that says that they should not be on a field with a footpath. It is not always possible to fence off grazing, if the footpath goes across the middle of the field and farmers can get into real trouble if they move paths to the side of a field.
 
spotty_pony2 said:
it’s not about the bull. it’s about the cows with calves. It also clearly states further down that cows with calves shouldn’t be kept on a bridleway or any right of way for that matter. The Bull isn’t the issue here.
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But the thing you posted doesn't say that calves can't be kept with cows on a public right of way. They can and often are.
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spotty_pony2 said:
They have to electric fence a track which is safe to pass through in that case. It would be much simpler to let riders use the alternative route but if that’s not possible fencing is the next answer but will require a lot more work and expense.
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Cattle rarely respect electric fencing. Would you really like to have about 3 ft fenced off with barbed wire, which the cattle will respect, so that you can ride across the field?
 
Anyone who walks their dog through a field with cows AND calves needs their head examining, I thought it was a well known no-no.

I regularly ride on the South Downs, we have the South Downs way and many bridleways branching off it which is amazing. Have ridden through (literally) cows and calves many times with no issue, if anything they tend to move away from the horse. Perhaps I am lucky. The cows move about a lot and are rarely in the same field for more than a few weeks at a time. I also walk my dogs in the same area, which means I have to be aware of where the cows are so I can switch my route as needed. I wouldn't dream of complaining about cows being on the right of way.

ETA some pics to share!

Cows.jpg
Calves.jpg
 
You say that the farmer agrees with you, but the landowner doesn't? In that case the responsibility lies with the owner of the cattle, it is up to him/her to keep their stock safe.
 
spotty_pony2 said:
It’s a right of way. end of story. I have one in my land and I have to make it accessible with my horses so it’s no different here. It’s not one rule for one and one for another. If people continue going through who on horses who are unaware they could actually be in serious trouble if somebody gets injured. The farmers are on total agreement with me, it’s the landowner that isn’t.
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and its not like the right of way just popped up. Its been there a very long time, long enough to plan around it. I'm sick of landowners with rights of way not wanting people to use them. A few months back Cooper nearly sliced his pad off 2 miles from the car because some prick of a farmer had wrapped and hidden barbed wire on the offside of a style where you land. You couldn't see it from the approach. It was absolutely deliberate. And that was after Id waded through plough where it had been done right to the hedge.

We have HS2 being built round here so half the bridleways and footpaths are closed, so the ones that are left need to be accessible.
 
spotty_pony2 said:
I’m not spitting my dummy out - get some manners and don’t be so rude. I am going about it in the appropriate manner and have informers the council. It is now their issue to sort. If I was ‘sptttibg my dummy out’ I’d be banging on their door and having a go at them which would be inappropriate and I am not doing that as that would be wrong.
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I’m not being rude I’m just a blunt person and this is honestly coming across as a bit of a childish ‘right is right’ needless stress.

The amount of posts on the forum lambasting dog walkers for the entitlement that’s showing here is very high. The landowner has the right use the field as they see fit regardless of the right of way. You say you have the right to go through it. Both are rights, when we see dog owners exercising this ‘right’ and getting injured or killed pretty much everyone says well that was stupid why did they do that in a field full of livestock, too entitled just to go walk elsewhere because ‘it’s a right of way end of’.

If your horse isn’t good with the cows then go another way. My horse is actually better with them in the field with him than he is over a hedge for whatever reason his little Welsh brain has come up with. Our farmer frequently has sheep in our riding fields and our grazing fields. So he clearly has no issues with us riding through. At the end of the day they are his fields if he’s using the riding field for silage then we have to wait til it’s cut, if it’s for hay then we again have to wait til it’s cut or use another one. I have the ‘right’ to be in them after all, however I respect that at the end of the day the land is his to do what he wants with.
 
I'm Dun said:
Theres the risk of farmers that they will be prosecuted criminally, fined under health and safety laws and then sued by the injured person or their grieving family.

www.fwi.co.uk

Farming brothers fined for failing to protect public from cattle - Farmers Weekly

North Yorkshire farming brothers Andrew and David Turnbull have been sentenced for failing to protect members of the public from their cattle, which
www.fwi.co.uk www.fwi.co.uk
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See that’s just stupid. You choose to enter a field with stock.

Honestly this world is ridiculous! Since Covid I think society has become so entitled and ‘me me me’ it’s bordering on pathological.
 
Its not just stupid. Its the law. You might think its stupid, the farmer might have thought it was stupid, but look where that got them.

And just to pull you up on your silage field comment about, you have the right to roam but you don't have the right to trample crops so you don't have the right to access to that field.

Whether you like it or not there are public rights of way where we have access that must be kept safe and accessible by the landowner. Peoples opinions don't change rights in law.
 
Farmers must use adequate signage to ensure that users of paths have adequate warning and can make an informed choice of whether to use the ROW or not.
But it seems that OP's argument is with a neighbouring landowner who doesn't want horses on her land but has allowed dog walkers to use her land. I really do hope that the dog walkers are not counted in those who don't have a good word to say about the landowner, or they could find themselves without a safe dog walking route.
 
I'm Dun said:
Its not just stupid. Its the law. You might think its stupid, the farmer might have thought it was stupid, but look where that got them.

And just to pull you up on your silage field comment about, you have the right to roam but you don't have the right to trample crops so you don't have the right to access to that field.

Whether you like it or not there are public rights of way where we have access that must be kept safe and accessible by the landowner. Peoples opinions don't change rights in law.
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To pull me up 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 calm yourself down and remember who the heck you are 🤣🤣🤣 I grew up on farms my whole life you don’t need to tell me anything regarding crops and access 🤣🤣🤣 that’s a chuckle imagining you have the audacity to think you can pull me up. Not even my mother has that right 🤣🤣🤣.

Life is about choices. I also think the term ‘play silly games win silly prizes’ sum up life quite perfectly.

You make a choice, you live with the consequences. Nobody else should have to pay for anyone’s entitled choices.
 
Roasted Chestnuts said:
To pull me up 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 calm yourself down and remember who the heck you are 🤣🤣🤣 I grew up on farms my whole life you don’t need to tell me anything regarding crops and access 🤣🤣🤣 that’s a chuckle imagining you have the audacity to think you can pull me up. Not even my mother has that right 🤣🤣🤣.

Life is about choices. I also think the term ‘play silly games win silly prizes’ sum up life quite perfectly.

You make a choice, you live with the consequences. Nobody else should have to pay for anyone’s entitled choices.
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There is absolutely no need to berate the OP and others like this, belittling and quite frankly rude. You have your opinion, she has hers, but to carry on like you are in a playground, being very entitled, isn't a discussion but a diatribe of rudeness.
 
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