Cows with calves on a bridleway

[Roasted Chestnuts]

There is absolutely no need to berate the OP like this, belittling and quite frankly rude. You have your opinion, she has hers, but to carry on like you are in a playground, being very entitled, isn't a discussion but a diatribe of rudeness.

I’m not berating the op I’m responding to a post about me. It’s natural to laugh at someone thinking they can pull you up on a bloody internet forum when this person would not even open their mouth in real life. If you have the bottle to actually type ‘to pull you up’ then I’m afraid I’m going to laugh and type to that effect.

Calling me childish honestly doesn’t bother me as it’s your opinion, I’m just as entitled to mine and you don’t know me so water off a ducks back I’ve been playing the internet forum game for close to thirty years I’m well versed

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
Crack on 'playing' then

 

[sport horse]

As one poster has said these rights of way were established years ago when most people in rural areas were connected to the land and were more able to navigate around the stock out grazing.

As both a landowner and a horse rider, I am aware that todays usage is very different. For example I have been besieged by over 100 D of E youngsters passing through the farm on one day alone and the noise and disturbance they create upsets any stock, and it becomes a dangerous situation. I have actually fenced off a footpath because of this and as well as losing a part of my land it cost me £10,000+. However I can now use my own fields every day without worrying about idiots screaming and chasing the horses, picnicing in the middle of the fields and finally leaving the gates open so that my young horses went on a 16 hours rampage around the district, involving the police and local Facebook posts to find them.Scary as being an arable area there are not many fences and they could have reached a busy dual carriageway and casued a fatal accident.! I also do not have to put up with the unimaginable rudeness of walkers telling me 'I have no right to put horses on a footpath'. Err, yes I do. 'I am frightened of horses so you should not put them where I want to walk' Go somewhere else then, why walk through a horse farm? Would you expect the canal to be drained if you walked along the towpath but were frightened of water? Or would you find a walk that you enjoyed? Now the walkers and their dogs are in a long narrow cage safely imprisoned!!

What is really needed is some joined up and construcive thinking about diverting some of thse rights of way to edges of fields where they can be fenced safely. However, I suggest that this would have to start with the local authorities being more receptive to this idea and actually helping landowners. There is a massive amount of legal work to divert a path and the cost has to fall to the landowner. Why should the landowner pay when, in the situation met by the OP, or in my own when it was horses grazing, they are not breaking any regualations? Having fenced off paths the management of them becomes trickier - it is often then impossible to gain access with machinery for hedge cutting, mowing etc.

It is very sad to see horse riders publicly berate farmers. What do you feed your horse/pony? Hay/haylage? Oats? Well these are all grown by farmers. You feed nuts? Well actually they are made from products produced on the farm too!! What do you eat? Pretty much everything in your diet is grown on the land.

Please think about it and try to work together nicely. Most of you are hobby riders. The farmer is trying to earn a living and feed you and your horses. Be patient. Be kind.

 

[MuddyMonster]

Gosh, this has escalated!

OP - I'd have done the same as you & taken it higher up to sort. Regardless of people's opinions having access to PROW is the law, it doesn't make you entitled at all IMHO.

It might also be worth contacting the BHS Access department? I've found them v.helpful in the past.

 

[myheartinahoofbeat]

The farm manager next door to us, who works with beef cattle says he would never walk through a field of cows!

 

[Fransurrey]

See that’s just stupid. You choose to enter a field with stock.

Honestly this world is ridiculous! Since Covid I think society has become so entitled and ‘me me me’ it’s bordering on pathological.

That's a bit unfair. Often people enter a field that is L-shaped or with an exit you can't see. Most fields are not a perfect square with good visibility. Once you've crossed 10 acres and see the cattle at the exit gate there's not a cat in hell's chance you'd make it back to the entry. On my run last night I entered an empty field, but 2/3 way across (walking - it was very rutted clay!), I heard rustling behind me to find about 50 nosy steers cantering up behind me. There are multiple gated fields connecting to that one, all hedged. I am good with cows, so no biggie for me, and some mad arm spreading and an 'Eff off!' was enough to hold them off until I reached the stile, but anyone scared of cows would have thought they were entering an empty field.

OP, is there any way the temp route could be horse friendly - have you actually checked that out or asked on the FB post? Maybe there's a local bridleway group that could help make it so, if labour is needed? I think the fact they've provided a temp route at all means they're going above and beyond - you wouldn't get that round here!

 

[maya2008]

That's a bit unfair. Often people enter a field that is L-shaped or with an exit you can't see. Most fields are not a perfect square with good visibility. Once you've crossed 10 acres and see the cattle at the exit gate there's not a cat in hell's chance you'd make it back to the entry. On my run last night I entered an empty field, but 2/3 way across (walking - it was very rutted clay!), I heard rustling behind me to find about 50 nosy steers cantering up behind me. There are multiple gated fields connecting to that one, all hedged. I am good with cows, so no biggie for me, and some mad arm spreading and an 'Eff off!' was enough to hold them off until I reached the stile, but anyone scared of cows would have thought they were entering an empty field.

OP, is there any way the temp route could be horse friendly - have you actually checked that out or asked on the FB post? Maybe there's a local bridleway group that could help make it so, if labour is needed? I think the fact they've provided a temp route at all means they're going above and beyond - you wouldn't get that round here!

Was the gate shut? Because that is how I know if the field is ‘occupied’ round here! You may not be able to see the animals, but if that gate is shut there are probably some there!

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Gosh, this has escalated!

OP - I'd have done the same as you & taken it higher up to sort. Regardless of people's opinions having access to PROW is the law, it doesn't make you entitled at all IMHO.

It might also be worth contacting the BHS Access department? I've found them v.helpful in the past.

The problem is that OP now says that she wants access to neighbouring land, as the local dog walkers have been given permission to cross that instead of using the PROW.Neither the council, nor BHS will be able to grant her that right. It is that, really which makes her sound entitled.

 

[paddy555]

It is very sad to see horse riders publicly berate farmers. What do you feed your horse/pony? Hay/haylage? Oats? Well these are all grown by farmers. You feed nuts? Well actually they are made from products produced on the farm too!! What do you eat? Pretty much everything in your diet is grown on the land.

Please think about it and try to work together nicely. Most of you are hobby riders. The farmer is trying to earn a living and feed you and your horses. Be patient. Be kind.

I just looked in on this thread and thought I was on the DM comments by mistake. actually to be fair to Mail readers they are less entitled and more accommodating of farmers
Totally agree with you.

unbelievable that a forum where many are farming and most others dependent on farmers for forage should behave like the entitled elite and throw their toys out of the pram.

Everywhere you go in life you may well be entitled but you make your own risk assessment. Nothing to stop OP going through the cows.

Gosh, this has escalated!

OP - I'd have done the same as you & taken it higher up to sort. Regardless of people's opinions having access to PROW is the law, it doesn't make you entitled at all IMHO.

It might also be worth contacting the BHS Access department? I've found them v.helpful in the past.

take it higher up for what and to whom?

OP has access to the bridle path, No one has taken that from her. If she considers it safe ride through and it not find another bridlepath.,

The problem is that OP now says that she wants access to neighbouring land, as the local dog walkers have been given permission to cross that instead of using the PROW.Neither the council, nor BHS will be able to grant her that right. It is that, really which makes her sound entitled.

and why should anyone give horse riders alternative access? no reason at all. Perhaps horse riders come across as being very entitled. Sadly some of them do on this thread. Even if they were given access that landowner could quite rightly be worried they would ever be able to get rid of them every time cows were put in the other field.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Was the gate shut? Because that is how I know if the field is ‘occupied’ round here! You may not be able to see the animals, but if that gate is shut there are probably some there!

That’s not the system here, sadly.

I never, ever will walk or ride across a field with cattle in by choice, but have been caught out in big fields where the cattle are away out of sight at the other end of the field. I do look out for fresh cow pats, but even then I have found I was in with cattle by mistake.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I just looked in on this thread and thought I was on the DM comments by mistake. actually to be fair to Mail readers they are less entitled and more accommodating of farmers
Totally agree with you.

unbelievable that a forum where many are farming and most others dependent on farmers for forage should behave like the entitled elite and throw their toys out of the pram.

Everywhere you go in life you may well be entitled but you make your own risk assessment. Nothing to stop OP going through the cows.


take it higher up for what and to whom?

OP has access to the bridle path, No one has taken that from her. If she considers it safe ride through and it not find another bridlepath.,


and why should anyone give horse riders alternative access? no reason at all. Perhaps horse riders come across as being very entitled. Sadly some of them do on this thread. Even if they were given access that landowner could quite rightly be worried they would ever be able to get rid of them every time cows were put in the other field.

The council, as the OP stated.

It's all very well telling people to 'find another bridlepath' - and around here, it wouldn't be an issue as we are well connected - but for some it might be one of the few bridlepaths for miles or without going on a busy A roads. I'd be fine either riding through it or diverting on an A road but for lots it simply isn't possible.

I can understand farmers are under pressure, but so are lots of other professions and they still have to abide by laws. And if they've provided safe access to one group of users, why not all users? I wonder if an accident happens, the perceived 'hassle' of allowing a horse rider on the diversion will be worth the possible implications.

There are some great farmers & land owners who are so helpful when it comes to rights of way but there are also certainly some that don't want people on their land despite it having PROW.

I can't see anyone throwing toys out of their prams (well, actually, personally I think I can but it's not necessarily who you might be insinuating ) but I see nothing wrong with wanting safe access to routes they are legally entitled to & involving others to help that happen.

If you think differently, that's fine too.

 

[paddy555]

The council, as the OP stated.

It's all very well telling people to 'find another bridlepath' - and around here, it wouldn't be an issue as we are well connected - but for some it might be one of the few bridlepaths for miles or without going on a busy A roads. I'd be fine either riding through it or diverting on an A road but for lots it simply isn't possible.

I can understand farmers are under pressure, but so are lots of other professions and they still have to abide by laws. And if they've provided safe access to one group of users, why not all users? I wonder if an accident happens, the perceived 'hassle' of allowing a horse rider on the diversion will be worth the possible implications.

There are some great farmers & land owners who ate so helpful when it comes to rights of way but there are also certainly some that don't want people on their land despite it having PROW.

I can't see anyone throwing toys out of their prams (well, actually, personally I think I can but it's not necessarily who you might be insinuating ) but I see nothing wrong with wanting safe access to routes they are legally entitled to & involving others to help that happen.

If you think differently, that's fine too.

the farmer does seem to have abided by the law. OP is perfectly entitled to ride on the bridlepath. No one is stopping her.

as for the alternative route why should the landowner (who is not the farmer) allow access to horses. Absolutely no reason at all. If an accident happens it will be nothing to do with the landowner of the alternative route.

 

[paddy555]

The problem is that OP now says that she wants access to neighbouring land, as the local dog walkers have been given permission to cross that instead of using the PROW.Neither the council, nor BHS will be able to grant her that right. It is that, really which makes her sound entitled.

there is also of course the question of insurance iro the landowner with the alternative route. Perhaps she is worried about a horse accident, worried about mixing horses and dogs on her land, concerned if there is an accident if she will be liable. Maybe her insurance coy have said OK to dogs but if you want horses the premium will need increasing.

 

[Fransurrey]

Was the gate shut? Because that is how I know if the field is ‘occupied’ round here! You may not be able to see the animals, but if that gate is shut there are probably some there!

The gates are always shut and padlocked. Too many twunts who would leave them open, otherwise. Access is via stiles/kissing gates.

 

[Boulty]

My thoughts are that if it has been deemed necessary to divert a ROW for whatever reason then surely the diversion should be accessible to all users?

It is perfectly acceptable to have livestock on a ROW (and there would be a lot of grazing farmers couldn’t use if it wasn’t) but if incidents do occur and no action is taken to make things safer (what action that is would be situation dependent) I believe the farmer could potentially be held liable.

I’ve mentioned on another thread that my mum got surrounded by cows walking dog on a footpath near me and required assistance from another MOP to escape. This field has cows in it on & off for most of Spring & Summer. Due to its location (main / only access from village onto popular walking trails around a country estate owned by the council unless you drive onto the estate by car and pay the parking charges) it is a very popular and well used footpath including by parents with young children/ pushchairs, school trips etc. I’d guess during peak times there’s 100+ people an hour using it. Incident was reported to the estate office and the 2 instigators have been moved elsewhere. I appreciate that this situation is slightly unique due to it being a very busy path rather than a remote field

 

[ycbm]

I don't see the issue here, I really don't. A rider is not going to be trampled by a herd of cows, because they're on a horse. It they're on a horse which can't deal with cows then they need to teach the horse to deal with cows or find another route.

The fact that the path is not safe for walkers doesn't make it unsafe for riders.
.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I don't see the issue here, I really don't. A rider is not going to be trampled by a herd of cows, because they're on a horse. It they're on a horse which can't deal with cows then they need to teach the horse to deal with cows or find another route.

The fact that the path is not safe for walkers doesn't make it unsafe for riders.
.

And the neighbouring landowner is under NO obligation to allow anyone to use their land as an alternative. I don't understand why OP seems to think they should be able to use that route.

 

[JenJ]

Is it legal? There is a herd of cows with their calves and also a bull on one of the bridleways near me. I rode through there the other day and they came bombing across the field at me. Luckily my boy was very good but had he decided to bolt they would definitely have followed me and it could have been nasty.

Farmer has obviously had some complaints because there was a message on the local village facebook group this morning saying that the cows are ‘inquisitive’ and there is a temporary route for dog walkers to avoid the field and still use the right of way. There is no alternative for horses and riders but it is very possible they could allow us to ride on the temporary route too. The farmers are all for it and happy to help but they do not own the field and the landowner is a funny woman and a bully and is adamant the cows are fine..! I have reported to council. Am I right in thinking this is something that needs addressing? Her other option is to fence the bridleway but that will be a more expensive solution option but it’s her call!

Just reminding everyone of the OP.

I have highlighted the questions that were being asked.

I personally don't see any sign of entitlement in this post.

Some of the following posts, by other people though...

 

[JenJ]

And the neighbouring landowner is under NO obligation to allow anyone to use their land as an alternative. I don't understand why OP seems to think they should be able to use that route.

Well, it's the landowner of the field, who presumably owns the neighbouring land as well.

I don't think OP seems to think they should be able to use that route. I think they would like to use that route. There is a difference.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Well, it's the landowner of the field, who presumably owns the neighbouring land as well.

I don't think OP seems to think they should be able to use that route. I think they would like to use that route. There is a difference.

I don't think so. It reads to me that the farmer owns the field the cows are in and the woman who is allowing dog walkers to use an alternative route, owns the neighbouring route but doesn't want horses on it. OP would like to be able to use the alternative route, if you read on. And is complaining about the woman's character.

 

[I'm Dun]

the farmer does seem to have abided by the law. OP is perfectly entitled to ride on the bridlepath. No one is stopping her.

as for the alternative route why should the landowner (who is not the farmer) allow access to horses. Absolutely no reason at all. If an accident happens it will be nothing to do with the landowner of the alternative route.

I'm not sure they have. If they know there is an issue and have provided an alternative route for some users but not others, those others then have an issue and report it and they say tough, then if there is a further issue and it ends in a death or serious injury HSE will get involved at the least, but they could well be looking at criminal charges. Other cases haven't been prosecuted as farmers have tried to mitigate risks and tried to divert paths and not been allowed etc. In this instance there's a known risk and there's already been an incident.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

I'm not sure they have. If they know there is an issue and have provided an alternative route for some users but not others, those others then have an issue and report it and they say tough, then if there is a further issue and it ends in a death or serious injury HSE will get involved at the least, but they could well be looking at criminal charges. Other cases haven't been prosecuted as farmers have tried to mitigate risks and tried to divert paths and not been allowed etc. In this instance there's a known risk and there's already been an incident.

But the dog walkers route doesn’t seem to be on the land with the cows so the OP is asking for the landowner to let her use the alternative which she doesn’t have to do. Her land her choice as it were.

It’s also not law breaking if the farmer is abiding by the rules which they seem to be. No bull alone and cows and calves being allowed on the land the ROW sits on. They will be there for a few weeks until the grass has been eaten down then they will be moved fields. The OP is just being pedantic. It’s fighting for fightings sake

 

[ycbm]

I'm not sure they have. If they know there is an issue and have provided an alternative route for some users but not others, those others then have an issue and report it and they say tough, then if there is a further issue and it ends in a death or serious injury HSE will get involved at the least, but they could well be looking at criminal charges. Other cases haven't been prosecuted as farmers have tried to mitigate risks and tried to divert paths and not been allowed etc. In this instance there's a known risk and there's already been an incident.

There is no reason for a horse rider to have an issue with cows any more than to have an issue with umbrellas or pushchairs. Cows are a danger to walkers not to riders on similarly sized quadrupeds.

I've had three horses who hated cows and one who hated pushchairs, who I've had to train to deal with it. A bridle path isn't closed by having cows on it. I used to school on a field with a herd of Hereford and their calves and bull (Strawberry ) in it. You wouldn't ride a horse out in traffic without traffic proofing it. Cows are just traffic on a bridleway to anyone who rides in the country, or should be.

Farmers have been prosecuted for danger to walkers, that's an entirely different thing.
.

 

[paddy555]

I'm not sure they have. If they know there is an issue and have provided an alternative route for some users but not others, those others then have an issue and report it and they say tough, then if there is a further issue and it ends in a death or serious injury HSE will get involved at the least, but they could well be looking at criminal charges. Other cases haven't been prosecuted as farmers have tried to mitigate risks and tried to divert paths and not been allowed etc. In this instance there's a known risk and there's already been an incident.

what issue? I can't see any issue or incident has been mentioned. What known risk? I can't see any more than any other herd of cattle in a field with a path through.

A risk to dog walkers perhaps and there are plenty of warnings about that but not with horses.

 

[Moobli]

Was the gate shut? Because that is how I know if the field is ‘occupied’ round here! You may not be able to see the animals, but if that gate is shut there are probably some there!

Sorry to join in again but round here gates are shut no matter what, or you get the wrath of an annoyed shepherd

 

[Exasperated]

Is it legal? There is a herd of cows with their calves and also a bull on one of the bridleways near me. I rode through there the other day and they came bombing across the field at me. Luckily my boy was very good but had he decided to bolt they would definitely have followed me and it could have been nasty.

Farmer has obviously had some complaints because there was a message on the local village facebook group this morning saying that the cows are ‘inquisitive’ and there is a temporary route for dog walkers to avoid the field and still use the right of way. There is no alternative for horses and riders but it is very possible they could allow us to ride on the temporary route too. The farmers are all for it and happy to help but they do not own the field and the landowner is a funny woman and a bully and is adamant the cows are fine..! I have reported to council. Am I right in thinking this is something that needs addressing? Her other option is to fence the bridleway but that will be a more expensive solution option but it’s her call!

As noted, non-dairy bull with cows and calves = legit. It’s the mothers, not the bull, who retaliate in those circumstances. Dairy cows and youngstock without a bull = legit, too.

That said (and we graze plenty of cows, calves, couple of bulls), the NFU, Country Landowners Association and various insurers are now advising keepers of livestock to corridor their beasts off RoW, where feasible.

Public Rights of Way authorities do get approached about re routing paths round the edge of pasture for this purpose. Unfortunately, Ramblers’ representatives tend to favour ‘the original line’, thus often object, or want BOTH routes to become adopted, which landowners rarely accept.

Locally, two trampling instances with beef bulls & their families; entirely legally kept, and in both circumstances neither of the (badly) injured people were behaving tactfully, to say the least; has resulted in both these footpaths being permanently corridored apart from the rest of the pasture.

I believe INSURERS insisted on this measure, the PRoW could not, because the law was correctly followed.

Fencing on one of the routes was actually paid for by the club which had held an illicit fell running event with over 150 competitors(!) using this footpath through the cattle (in the gathering dusk, thundery weather, wearing flashing head torches etc....straight through the bovine bedroom....)

I guess OP and local riders could club together and offer similar, if concerned? If nervous, that’s likely to transmit to the horse and magnify, so maybe avoid until the cattle have settled down / moved on /you’re more confident. Nosy cattle are a pain in the ar*e, they’ll crowd round a horse (just plough on thru’ ‘em, think High Chapparral, use your schooling whip if the beggars won’t shift), but extremely unlikely to attack one.

For the record, ANY organised events/ races using PRoWs need permission from relevant highway authority and land owner, plus advance notification at both ends of route, along with all the usual risk assessments and risk mitigations, and insurance.

 

[Exasperated]

It’s only dairy bulls that applies to (as they are known for being much more naturally aggressive).

This is legally correct, but some of the Continental beef breeds now popular in UK ( particularly in pedigree herds) are notorious for bad temper, turn on a dime. Please don’t provoke any
1. Bulls grazing alone
2. Cows with young calves
3. Farmers, generally,
They can all be vicious and quite irrational.....

 

[ycbm]

I don't mean to sound totally unsympathetic to the original problem. It's a real nuisance to be on a circular route and find your way is blocked for any reason, and a fair proportion of people would, justifiably or otherwise, be wary of riding through cows.
.

 

[paddy555]

This is legally correct, but some of the Continental beef breeds now popular in UK ( particularly in pedigree herds) are notorious for bad temper, turn on a dime. Please don’t provoke any
1. Bulls grazing alone
2. Cows with young calves
3. Farmers, generally,
They can all be vicious and quite irrational.....

don't have too much problem with cattle, they are pretty rational. Had more of a problem with the farmer who drove about 40 at me (out riding)t at speed on a single track road with very high banks. Thought my time had come as we had absolutely no where to go. Thankfully the horse took charge and held the cattle (who then, one by one, went up a high bank, over a pig wire fence, through the neighbouring farmer's fields and then onto the next farmer's land)

 

[Marshpiper]

As one poster has said these rights of way were established years ago when most people in rural areas were connected to the land and were more able to navigate around the stock out grazing.

As both a landowner and a horse rider, I am aware that todays usage is very different. For example I have been besieged by over 100 D of E youngsters passing through the farm on one day alone and the noise and disturbance they create upsets any stock, and it becomes a dangerous situation. I have actually fenced off a footpath because of this and as well as losing a part of my land it cost me £10,000+. However I can now use my own fields every day without worrying about idiots screaming and chasing the horses, picnicing in the middle of the fields and finally leaving the gates open so that my young horses went on a 16 hours rampage around the district, involving the police and local Facebook posts to find them.Scary as being an arable area there are not many fences and they could have reached a busy dual carriageway and casued a fatal accident.! I also do not have to put up with the unimaginable rudeness of walkers telling me 'I have no right to put horses on a footpath'. Err, yes I do. 'I am frightened of horses so you should not put them where I want to walk' Go somewhere else then, why walk through a horse farm? Would you expect the canal to be drained if you walked along the towpath but were frightened of water? Or would you find a walk that you enjoyed? Now the walkers and their dogs are in a long narrow cage safely imprisoned!!

What is really needed is some joined up and construcive thinking about diverting some of thse rights of way to edges of fields where they can be fenced safely. However, I suggest that this would have to start with the local authorities being more receptive to this idea and actually helping landowners. There is a massive amount of legal work to divert a path and the cost has to fall to the landowner. Why should the landowner pay when, in the situation met by the OP, or in my own when it was horses grazing, they are not breaking any regualations? Having fenced off paths the management of them becomes trickier - it is often then impossible to gain access with machinery for hedge cutting, mowing etc.

It is very sad to see horse riders publicly berate farmers. What do you feed your horse/pony? Hay/haylage? Oats? Well these are all grown by farmers. You feed nuts? Well actually they are made from products produced on the farm too!! What do you eat? Pretty much everything in your diet is grown on the land.

Please think about it and try to work together nicely. Most of you are hobby riders. The farmer is trying to earn a living and feed you and your horses. Be patient. Be kind.

Agree with every word…….