Cows with calves on a bridleway

paddy555 said:
To answer your original question is it legal then yes, is this something that needs addressing then no. There is no problem. You could ask the farmer to put signs up.
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there is still a problem if cows are charging at people regardless of legality as there is a public right of way across the field. Council are investigating it so obviously there is a problem else they would tell me there wasn’t.
 
spotty_pony2 said:
I’m not arguing for the sake of it. 🤣 It’s not all about the alternative route - it’s about people being able to cross it safely. Not just me - there’s no signs so a rider who isn’t from the area could come along completely unaware and get charged at. I’m just trying to keep everyone safe.
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there is still a problem if cows are charging at people regardless of legality as there is a public right of way across the field. Council are investigating it so obviously there is a problem else they would tell me there wasn’t.
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I expect you've given the Council an obligation to investigate by telling them there's a public safety issue. If the farmer can point at other riders who ride that path with no issues, then you will have wasted their time.

I don't think you've any right to suggest that group of cows wouldn't be safe to ride through until you've tried to ride through them. [Edit, this has happened, and safely but not without fear]. People ride through cows on rights of way and private land all the time.

Why do you think these cows are going to charge at horses? [Edit, because they did, but no harm came of it] If they were older juveniles alone then I would agree they love a good race with a horse, but not mothers with calves at foot.
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Assuming for a moment that any farmer can be forced not to graze cows on any field with a bridleway or footpath going through, how are farmers supposed to farm? It's crazy for food production to have to give way to a leisure activity and if we end up with US hormone fed beef in this country things like that will be partly to blame.
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ycbm said:
I expect you've given the Council an obligation to investigate by telling them there's a public safety issue. If the farmer can point at other riders who ride that path with no issues, then you will have wasted their time.

I don't think you've any right to suggest that group of cows wouldn't be safe to ride through until you've tried to ride through them. People ride through cows on rights of way and private land all the time.

Why do you think these cows are going to charge at horses? If they were older juveniles alone then I would agree they love a good race with a horse, but not mothers with calves at foot.
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It just still smacks to me of personal gain. I mean why randomly point out the safety of cows on a ROW. I mean does anyone ride past an ROW they don’t use or want to use and think ‘oooooh that’s not safe those cows look dangerous from here’. I know I wouldn’t. I’d either go in or ride on past.

I just hope you haven’t really annoyed this farmer you are on good terms with by having the council on his case about his cows and all up in his business about his insurance etc.

Also if it goes past the farmer to the landowner then I think there will be no chance you will be allowed to ride on their land other than the ROW again.
 
ycbm said:
I expect you've given the Council an obligation to investigate by telling them there's a public safety issue. If the farmer can point at other riders who ride that path with no issues, then you will have wasted their time.

I don't think you've any right to suggest that group of cows wouldn't be safe to ride through until you've tried to ride through them. People ride through cows on rights of way and private land all the time.

Why do you think these cows are going to charge at horses? If they were older juveniles alone then I would agree they love a good race with a horse, but not mothers with calves at foot.
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i have tried to ride through them thus the original post but managed to get out in time, you obviously haven’t read the whole post.
 
spotty_pony2 said:
i have tried to ride through them thus the original post but managed to get out in time, you obviously haven’t read the whole post.
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I did read it but forgot it, sorry. I've reread it and you got through without a problem except that you were scared that they ran towards you. I do get how annoying this is, especial if it's a circular route for you and you have to go a long way out of your way, but I really feel for our farmers if leisure users have the right to tell them where they can and can't graze their cows.
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spotty_pony2 said:
i have tried to ride through them thus the original post but managed to get out in time, you obviously haven’t read the whole post.
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they ran towards you, calves often do that, they are curious. If you keep going they will keep following, if you turn the horse round partly so he can see them and then ride toward them they will most likely run back to where they came from. I have ridden through very many curious calves and they just run around the horse playing. There is no way they have ever been brave enough to attack.

farmers have to put livestock somewhere. Choices are to house them all the time which has welfare issues, it will also mean they will have to feed them ie increased costs cutting hay/silage. Increased need for hay/silage which horse owners would have bought. Some fields just cannot be cut due to the nature of the terrain, they can only be grazed.

If all ROW were fenced there would be outrage that the fencing was spoiling the look of the countryside and that doesnt even consider the cost nor what type of fencing. For a cross field bridlepath the miniumum width is 2m and field edge 3m.

The fencing would need to be high to prevent people chucking dogs over into the field.
So you would be riding along a cross field 6ft wide path which doesn't leave much room if you meet other horses or walkers with dogs. No doubt there would be endless complaints. The cows and calves would still run up to the fenced path, it is not going to stop them being curious. They will still be able to run along side the new fence and your horse will still be able to bolt. If older cows saw dogs they would still be able to charge them and hit the fence.

signs would be good but I have seen several comments that by doing so farmers may be seen as trying to prevent access or they may be warning an animal could be dangerous rather than just notifying the public of a simple fact.
 
paddy555 said:
they ran towards you, calves often do that, they are curious. If you keep going they will keep following, if you turn the horse round partly so he can see them and then ride toward them they will most likely run back to where they came from. I have ridden through very many curious calves and they just run around the horse playing. There is no way they have ever been brave enough to attack.

farmers have to put livestock somewhere. Choices are to house them all the time which has welfare issues, it will also mean they will have to feed them ie increased costs cutting hay/silage. Increased need for hay/silage which horse owners would have bought. Some fields just cannot be cut due to the nature of the terrain, they can only be grazed.

If all ROW were fenced there would be outrage that the fencing was spoiling the look of the countryside and that doesnt even consider the cost nor what type of fencing. For a cross field bridlepath the miniumum width is 2m and field edge 3m.

The fencing would need to be high to prevent people chucking dogs over into the field.
So you would be riding along a cross field 6ft wide path which doesn't leave much room if you meet other horses or walkers with dogs. No doubt there would be endless complaints. The cows and calves would still run up to the fenced path, it is not going to stop them being curious. They will still be able to run along side the new fence and your horse will still be able to bolt. If older cows saw dogs they would still be able to charge them and hit the fence.

signs would be good but I have seen several comments that by doing so farmers may be seen as trying to prevent access or they may be warning an animal could be dangerous rather than just notifying the public of a simple fact.
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Or, England could join Scotland and bring in the right to roam which includes on a horse.that would solve the problem 😀
 
spotty_pony2 said:
there is still a problem if cows are charging at people regardless of legality as there is a public right of way across the field. Council are investigating it so obviously there is a problem else they would tell me there wasn’t.
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I’ve read through this and there are a number of inconsistencies as you have asked how would people who aren’t from the area know, but you have also indicated that there is a sign indicating an alternate route for dog walkers. So which is it no signs or signs ?

The adjacent landowner has come to an agreement with the farmer to allow temporary rerouting of walkers with dogs (also without dogs??) this is because there is irrefutable evidence that cattle perceive dogs as a threat and cows with calves at foot more so. He has therefore identified a risk and put in appropriate risk management for it.

Regarding horses then the risk is significantly lower, he isn’t able to provide an alternate route, an 8ft wide channel of electric fencing is likely to be higher risk as it won’t stop calves coming up to it to be nosy and if the horse does spook it will get an electric shock which won’t help calm it down.

If you don’t feel comfortable riding through nosy calves then I suggest you avoid the route for a bit, otherwise just carry on.

It sounds like you came on here looking for sympathy and you have received a response you weren’t expecting, namely that most of us are more sympathetic to the farmer and that you are coming across as entitled. If you have lodged a complaint then the council are obliged to investigate, it doesn’t mean it has substance
 
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ycbm said:
www.dailymail.co.uk

Fury at landowner's 300ft 'prison fence' to keep ramblers on the straight and narrow

Alan Brunt bought Rodden Lake Stream Meadow in Frome, Somerset, for £210,000 - despite attempts by wildlife campaigners to block the purchase.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
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Well, that’s one way of sorting the problem!
Ghastly to look at, horrible for path users, but highlights the issue perfectly, because it directly results from:
Far too many irresponsible and disrespectful people, with zero regard for the needs, feelings or livelihoods of others.
Just read the neighbour’s comments ( and presumably he’s got to look at the monstrosity?).
The local Council could consider licensing legislation for commercial dog walkers; properly prosecuting all dog fouling on footpaths; providing land for a secure dog park - and if the ‘short cut’ has been regularly used for at least 20 years, then a Definitive Map Modification Order to instate that as a full public footpath.
There is obviously no ‘Right to Roam’ open access land here, so people have merely abused the meadow, which sounds like it is going to be future investment into building land, anyway. Heigh-ho.
 
myheartinahoofbeat said:
The farm manager next door to us, who works with beef cattle says he would never walk through a field of cows!
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Same, I know of one walker who was trampled and needed a double hip replacement as her pelvis was crushed plus wasn’t there somebody killed last year/the year before?
maya2008 said:
Was the gate shut? Because that is how I know if the field is ‘occupied’ round here! You may not be able to see the animals, but if that gate is shut there are probably some there!
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There are various fields in the woods, padlocked shut, left fallow for many years. I’m not sure why the farmer has left them fallow and locked up. Ime, nobody was actually using them to walk on, we all robotically follow the path alongside, although I confess, Jake used to jump in the unused trough. Access for a tractor would be difficult/impossible and there are far too many mops for livestock to be safe, imo.
 
For all those mentioning hobby/non ptofessional riders, would you think differently if it was a professional rider contacting the council?
 
bonny said:
Or, England could join Scotland and bring in the right to roam which includes on a horse.that would solve the problem 😀
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Yea and nay.
Firstly, there are far fewer residents or even visitors in Scotland. Or traffic, for that matter. South of the border, where open access / right to roam land already exists (solely walkers, although often abused by mountain bikers), in many of the ‘honeypot’ locations (renowned for beauty, or nearest centres of population), R2R already causes significant problems for wildlife, degradation of sensitive heathland- never mind damage to livestock, congestion, litter, fires, excrement, etc.
Secondly, there is no compulsion for maintenance of actual RoW, which many riders and walkers actually depend on for their enjoyment of the countryside. Not everyone wants to test their horse across open moorland, bogs, or dense woods, same goes for many walkers and cyclists, particularly the youngest / oldest or least athletic.

Sport horse, earlier, is nearer the mark - local authorities actively collaborating with landowners to create a joined up network of multi user (bridleway, or restricted byway) routes - including through open access land (effectively nudging the multitudes away from sensitive ‘off piste’), and financed via Govt, public money for public goods.

There are infinitely more public and health benefits from extensive and safely usable RoW, than from any flagship sports stadia / running tracks etc - which only a minuscule percentage of the population ever use.
 
MuddyMonster said:
For all those mentioning hobby/non ptofessional riders, would you think differently if it was a professional rider contacting the council?
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Of course not, although someone who professionally makes their living from large herbivores is far less likely to contact the council with this type of inconvenience, anyway. They’ll either sort out the horse or ride elsewhere, interim.
 
Cinnamontoast said:
Same, I know of one walker who was trampled and needed a double hip replacement as her pelvis was crushed plus wasn’t there somebody killed last year/the year before?

There are various fields in the woods, padlocked shut, left fallow for many years. I’m not sure why the farmer has left them fallow and locked up. Ime, nobody was actually using them to walk on, we all robotically follow the path alongside, although I confess, Jake used to jump in the unused trough. Access for a tractor would be difficult/impossible and there are far too many mops for livestock to be safe, imo.
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Happened to me. I grew up on farms and work in the Agriculture industry. The farmer in my case was totally negligent. Never would i ever walk or ride near cattle again.
 
Cinnamontoast said:
Same, I know of one walker who was trampled and needed a double hip replacement as her pelvis was crushed plus wasn’t there somebody killed last year/the year before?
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Sadly there are people injured and killed by cattle each year.

I think the average is 4 or 5 people killed and around 80 injured in the UK every year. Not only walkers of course but people who work with cattle - farmers, transporters, auction marts, abattoirs etc.
 
spotty_pony2 said:
it’s not about the bull. it’s about the cows with calves. It also clearly states further down that cows with calves shouldn’t be kept on a bridleway or any right of way for that matter. The Bull isn’t the issue here.
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Could you show the law for the cows with calves rule please.I was unaware of this rule, except for those animals previously proven to be dangerous to walkers, tourists,riders etc which had displayed previous problematic behaviours.
 
limestonelil said:
Could you show the law for the cows with calves rule please.I was unaware of this rule, except for those animals previously proven to be dangerous to walkers, tourists,riders etc which had displayed previous problematic behaviours.
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Look, OP’s misinterpreted ‘the law’ here, probably also misinterpreting ‘charging cows’, because she’s been very upset and a bit confused. They will have come gallivanting over, en masse, to check out the exotic novelty of a ridden horse in their home, which can be intimidating.
Nosy cattle are a damn nuisance (I live among several hundred of them), cattle are large, thuggish and can certainly kill. Very few do, in UK dogs are more dangerous, but that doesn’t mean anyone should be complacent around cattle. On board a horse, the danger is minimal, because the horse is unlikely to get knocked to the floor, which is when the trouble starts.
The OP is probably unnerved that her crowded horse will panic, bolt, or act up so she might then fall off and become vulnerable - which is a reasonable fear.
However that is NOT a reason for these cattle to be banned from their grazing, altho’ a good reason for her avoiding this bridleway, or for conducting desensitising techniques with her horse.
If OP can find a riding buddy whose horse already has cow-confidence - which will stand while they mill around, then walk purposefully and directly at and through the group, rider using voice and whip to drive them if necessary - would likely help.
 
I make decisions all the time regarding which routes (all bridleways) are safe to ride; some you don't ride in winter because too exposed or muddy, some you don't ride in summer as attracts flies or too many people, some you don't ride in the spring because of lambing sheep, and some you don't ride because of curious young cattle. Just because it is a bridleway, doesn't mean that it is OK to ride on it all the time. If your horse is safe with cattle, and you understand the risk, then ride that route. If your horse isn't safe with cattle, or you don't want the risk, then avoid it. It will change, the cows won't be there for ever
 
paddy555 said:
no, why?
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Because whilst I might not completely agree with all points made or how some people are making them, I think it's important to try to understand as best as possible other people's POV. I'd seen people referring to horse riding being a hobby, hobby rider's expectations and the like numerous times on this thread and was geniunely interested if people's opinion would change if it was a professional rider.
 
MuddyMonster said:
Because whilst I might not completely agree with all points made or how some people are making them, I think it's important to try to understand as best as possible other people's POV. I'd seen people referring to horse riding being a hobby, hobby rider's expectations and the like numerous times on this thread and was geniunely interested if people's opinion would change if it was a professional rider.
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I would expect a pro just to push on and ride past. I don't think the risk is that the curious calves will attack but that they will run over to the horse and if someone doesn't feel confident they can stay on if the horse spooks then best to avoid. I would expect a pro to be able to control the horse.

for the hobby rider I would think more along the lines of Tarragon's last post. Look at the situation, assess what you consider to be the risk to yourself and your horse and either push on or change your plans. We all have rights to do lots of things but we also have to take other factors into account in assessing the risk. For eg. I live near open moorland. That means I can just ride over the open common more or less where I want. Landowners (farmers and the like) have grazing rights on the moorland. They can graze x number of cattle, sheep or ponies. Normally they are no problem. Stallions run free with their herds.
There was one large area of moorland I would have liked to have ridden over, It would have been helpful to get from A to B. I didn't for years as one farmer ran his ponies on there. He had a perfect right to. I had a perfect right to ride there.
His ponies were Shitlands with a couple of stallions and they really were viscous little Shitlands. If I had ridden over my horse would have been attacked. It had happened to others. So I forget my :"right" to cross that moorland and did as Tarragon says, assessed the risks, decided it was too dangerous for my horse and found another way.
 
Fred66 said:
I’ve read through this and there are a number of inconsistencies as you have asked how would people who aren’t from the area know, but you have also indicated that there is a sign indicating an alternate route for dog walkers. So which is it no signs or signs ?

The adjacent landowner has come to an agreement with the farmer to allow temporary rerouting of walkers with dogs (also without dogs??) this is because there is irrefutable evidence that cattle perceive dogs as a threat and cows with calves at foot more so. He has therefore identified a risk and put in appropriate risk management for it.

Regarding horses then the risk is significantly lower, he isn’t able to provide an alternate route, an 8ft wide channel of electric fencing is likely to be higher risk as it won’t stop calves coming up to it to be nosy and if the horse does spook it will get an electric shock which won’t help calm it down.

If you don’t feel comfortable riding through nosy calves then I suggest you avoid the route for a bit, otherwise just carry on.

It sounds like you came on here looking for sympathy and you have received a response you weren’t expecting, namely that most of us are more sympathetic to the farmer and that you are coming across as entitled. If you have lodged a complaint then the council are obliged to investigate, it doesn’t mean it has substance
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No I came on here to ask for advice. Everyone can have their own opinion I don’t care if they don’t all agree with me but I am not the only person with the same opinion on here.

In answer to your question - there is a post on facebook but no signs.
 
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