CPL / Mallanders / feather mites

[FfionWinnie]

maybe-maybe not.I work with (scab) mites so am just interested as chorioptes are infernally difficult to find. also-sheep scab can resolve without treatment in the right conditions (animal, breed, wool length etc). my pony was a bit sore and itchy so hoping the jaggs sort him out.

I’ve never heard of a case of sheep scab resolve other than through the death of the sheep! I think it’s unlikely my two horses had mites and no symptoms of mites other than crusty legs and it also resolved without treatment. Unless of course the mites saw I had some dectomax in the cabinet and got frightened off...

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I've seen several cases of resolving sheep scab over the years, can and does happen. I've also had shepherds tell me that they definitely don't have sheep scab in their flock until I find it

I'm not saying that this is the case with your horses, its a new condition for me and its related to my work so am just interested in cause and effect. the cob I spoke of who's lesions resolved after a diet change had certainly been treated for mites previously so its not straightforward. I mostly work with scab and poultry red mite, chorioptes is a new one but I do know we've been on the look out for chorioptes mites for years with no success-partly because pet owners dont want their animals scraped and partly because scraping is so useless for mites anyway.

when you have a batch of horse owners (on FB) saying that its definitely not X but that they dont know for sure because noone's ever looked or because they'd rather fork out for potions than actual treatment, then I have to question it.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Do you find established sheep scab in flocks with absolutely no sheep showing any external symptoms, including behavioural, whatsoever?

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Do you find established sheep scab in flocks with absolutely no sheep showing any external symptoms, including behavioural, whatsoever?

depends what you mean by established.
Have I found affected sheep in a population where people were adamant there was no scab, confirmed by serology and then finding mites on individuals? yes, several times in several geographical locations. for it to be so endemic, it stands to reason that some sheep will get it and it resolves (as evidenced by finding healed/healing lesions) or it exists subclinically but is passed on before anyone knows its there.

As for behavioural indicators, these can be extremely subtle and, as far as I've seen, easily overlooked by busy staff and not evident in sheep being moved/handled etc ie seen only when the sheep are quiet and calm.

Happy to talk about my work via PM-been working on scab for 10 years now.

 

[chaps89]

Advice for humans is to avoid aqueous cream and use emollient instead in case of reaction - maybe patch test first? https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/emollients/
Eta - I hope you get to the bottom of it and find something that works

 

[SEL]

Interesting discussions re scabs / mites. Given how close my 2 horses are I would be very surprised if the Appy doesn't have mites too - but she shows no signs. I'm not sure if that's because she isn't feathered so doesn't have the surplus skin to eat, plus extra hair to hide in.

Dectomax injected today. Vaseline advised to try and soften the worst scabs with reassessment when back for 2nd jab in 2 weeks. No antibiotics right now, but we will keep on with the antihistamines if he keeps biting himself.

I will be spending Sunday with potions, lotions and a draft horse distracting likit. Clipping his feathers would be ideal, but given he tried to kick under sedation last time it's a last resort!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

hope it has some effect SEL. My pony is much less itchy and *touches wood* the scabs seem to be resolving a couple of days after the second jagg. I've used Heel to Hoof as guessed lanolin might be useful but its very sticky stuff on a hairy pony (and as a Fell, I really dont want to clip)-better on the mess front that sudocrem and protocon though.

 

[Cecile]

hope it has some effect SEL. My pony is much less itchy and *touches wood* the scabs seem to be resolving a couple of days after the second jagg. I've used Heel to Hoof as guessed lanolin might be useful but its very sticky stuff on a hairy pony (and as a Fell, I really dont want to clip)-better on the mess front that sudocrem and protocon though.

I really rate Heel to Hoof highly, I've had some amazing results with it and it doesn't seem to cause any stinging or upset whilst putting it on even with one that arrived with somewhat handy hooves, only used it for new arrivals with mud fever and rain scald tho but always have a tub handy

I did have one who looked like the elephant man when I applied sudocrem to a fly bite, emergency vet visit and the vet was highly impressed with her reaction to a silly bit of sudocrem. Someone mentioned on here that she would of been allergic to the lanolin in it, I have never seen that reaction before or since

 

[Bertolie]

Biotin will make mallanders worse as it encourages the production of keratin, something you don't want in this instance. I've taken my mare off anything containing biotin and have to say her mallanders is far better lately.

 

[Fincher10]

Interesting discussions re scabs / mites. Given how close my 2 horses are I would be very surprised if the Appy doesn't have mites too - but she shows no signs. I'm not sure if that's because she isn't feathered so doesn't have the surplus skin to eat, plus extra hair to hide in.

Dectomax injected today. Vaseline advised to try and soften the worst scabs with reassessment when back for 2nd jab in 2 weeks. No antibiotics right now, but we will keep on with the antihistamines if he keeps biting himself.

I will be spending Sunday with potions, lotions and a draft horse distracting likit. Clipping his feathers would be ideal, but given he tried to kick under sedation last time it's a last resort!

Hi could you please let me know what you found to work on him in the end? Thanks

 

[SEL]

Hi could you please let me know what you found to work on him in the end? Thanks

Ivermectin wash from the vets is still the best for him.

 

[scrat]

We are currently using this range for our shires. One cannot tolerate pig oil or sulphur so the shire oil and mallenders sallenders cream has helped sort out some sore scabs on legs. They have some useful information about these conditions here https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=523831608134279&id=335859456931496&__tn__=-R
Hope that helps

 

[Bobthecob15]

This is an old thread but I just wondered if those with experience of the condition could tell me if this would significantly affect a horses value? We are looking at one for possible purchase and she has M&S, the owner thinks its possible its CPL but never diagnosed. It's well managed and legs clipped, occasionally needs a bit of cream. Never lame with it. She is a super horse in all ways otherwise. Priced a bit lower than some with similar experience etc...so I think they have adjusted for the M&S. We would be vetting if we went head. Thanks

 

[Birker2020]

I don't know whether I've taken my eye off the ball this year (it's been a stressful few months) or whether something else has changed but my little draft is really, really struggling.

His scabby bits have always been a struggle and x-rays for ringbone showed very thickened skin, so it's highly likely his mallanders is actually CPL. It is progressive, but he's got lumps of thickened skin all up between his hind legs now. He's so itchy that he was running himself on the metal curry comb I was holding.

I'm getting the vet to try dectomax again - but its never really made a difference for long.

Anyone ever come across any miracle potions or lotions? All the usual suspects have been tried and not helped for long.

Feeling very sorry for him and a bit desperate!

Sorry to be ignorant in such matters but I've been hearing a lot lately about CPL in horses and seen some horrific photos of horses with the disease. Until recently I'd never heard of it. I'd obviously heard of mallenders which is due to excess keratin but I've never heard of CPL. Is it a relatively new thing that has been discovered/named or has it been around for many years? Maybe its because I've always had the non heavy horse breeds , I'm not sure.

 

[Gloi]

Sorry to be ignorant in such matters but I've been hearing a lot lately about CPL in horses and seen some horrific photos of horses with the disease. Until recently I'd never heard of it. I'd obviously heard of mallenders which is due to excess keratin but I've never heard of CPL. Is it a relatively new thing that has been discovered/named or has it been around for many years? Maybe its because I've always had the non heavy horse breeds , I'm not sure.

It's certainly not new. I kept my ponies at a place that bred Shires in my youth and it was the scourge of them then, some had what was then called "grapes" great lumps on the fetlocks.

 

[Lucky Snowball]

I have some experience as a livery had cpl. It would affect the value for me. Cost a fortune in treatment and had to be constantly clipped. Always itching and scratching. Poor horse.

 

[Sanversera]

Moxidectin is the best killer of mites,its available in a sheep drench called I think cytex. You pour it on the legs.

 

[SEL]

Cydectin is the cattle wormer with moxidectin in it but prescription only.

Bit of a tear in my eye reading this because the little draft I started the thread about is no longer with us.

Shave legs, 24:7 turnout and mite treatment is the best way forward. Anything with feather is at risk.

 

[Zoeypxo]

Cydectin is the cattle wormer with moxidectin in it but prescription only.

Bit of a tear in my eye reading this because the little draft I started the thread about is no longer with us.

Shave legs, 24:7 turnout and mite treatment is the best way forward. Anything with feather is at risk.

I loved seeing your lovely draft

 

[Zoeypxo]

This is an old thread but I just wondered if those with experience of the condition could tell me if this would significantly affect a horses value? We are looking at one for possible purchase and she has M&S, the owner thinks its possible its CPL but never diagnosed. It's well managed and legs clipped, occasionally needs a bit of cream. Never lame with it. She is a super horse in all ways otherwise. Priced a bit lower than some with similar experience etc...so I think they have adjusted for the M&S. We would be vetting if we went head. Thanks

M&s not massively difficult to manage but CPL is a nightmare and very painful for the horse, id imagine it could well half a value depending on the severity

 

[Goldenstar]

Blue arrived with out of control mallenders and appalling chronic cracked heels .
We keep him clipped all year at first this was a big task as he was having non of it he had to have lots of sedation now you can sit on a low mounting and clip his legs
We tried all sorts the injections, steroids, various potions from the vet , various in fact many potions not from the vet .
Then I happened on Mother Bee smooth and protect by the next day I knew we onto something for us it taken a unmanageable issue that was making the horse angry and unhappy to a compete non issue his chronic heel problem is healed even living out in winter is no problem .
Blue relaxed and changed in character .
Mother Bee it’s worth a try .

I would say Blue who also was hugely fat when we got him was showing the early signs of CPL we keep him out most of the year clip him and he’s in work all time although he is overly well atm he not hugely fat he’s around 200 kilos lighter than he was . He also has a forage based diet .

 

[SEL]

I loved seeing your lovely draft

He was a very special boy - more of an over sized Labrador than a horse!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I don't know whether I've taken my eye off the ball this year (it's been a stressful few months) or whether something else has changed but my little draft is really, really struggling.

His scabby bits have always been a struggle and x-rays for ringbone showed very thickened skin, so it's highly likely his mallanders is actually CPL. It is progressive, but he's got lumps of thickened skin all up between his hind legs now. He's so itchy that he was running himself on the metal curry comb I was holding.

I'm getting the vet to try dectomax again - but its never really made a difference for long.

Anyone ever come across any miracle potions or lotions? All the usual suspects have been tried and not helped for long.

Feeling very sorry for him and a bit desperate!

No miracle cures but if I didn't know better, I'd think that was what my big cob has but I know that it was originally a reaction to linseed in a balancer that I made worse by by giving her extra linseed to support her skin(!). That is well over a year ago now, she still has bare spots up the inside of her thighs and had a small breakout on the outside of her pastern/point of hock a couple of weeks ago. Goodness knows what promoted that but a quick spray of Teatree oil sorted it and the hair is beginning to grow back. Could your problem be allergy related?

Sorry SEL, I hadn't realised this was an old thread, I obviously read this forum with my eyes closed half the time!

 

[Bobthecob15]

M&s not massively difficult to manage but CPL is a nightmare and very painful for the horse, id imagine it could well half a value depending on the severity

Thanks it’s not confirmed CPL the owner just thinks some of the symptoms are similar…she was just being honest. Definitely has M&S though. Sounds very mild. Perhaps discuss with the vet if we proceed? She is a good 25% less than I would expect for comparable horses. It doesn’t really concern me but I guess if we sell on in the future it might worry others. Hmm x

 

[shortstuff99]

This is an old thread but I just wondered if those with experience of the condition could tell me if this would significantly affect a horses value? We are looking at one for possible purchase and she has M&S, the owner thinks its possible its CPL but never diagnosed. It's well managed and legs clipped, occasionally needs a bit of cream. Never lame with it. She is a super horse in all ways otherwise. Priced a bit lower than some with similar experience etc...so I think they have adjusted for the M&S. We would be vetting if we went head. Thanks

To be honest if you're wanting a traditional cob type then you're going to be hard pressed to find one that doesn't have either mites, mallendars and possible CPL (combinations thereof). Just have to decide if the effort for management is worth it for the horse and price you are paying.

I have decided my current big cob man will be my last (hah!) Traditional as the care of the feathers and what comes with it is a bit of a pain. Sticking with horses with no feathers for now on

 

[Bobthecob15]

To be honest if you're wanting a traditional cob type then you're going to be hard pressed to find one that doesn't have either mites, mallendars and possible CPL (combinations thereof). Just have to decide if the effort for management is worth it for the horse and price you are paying.

I have decided my current big cob man will be my last (hah!) Traditional as the care of the feathers and what comes with it is a bit of a pain. Sticking with horses with no feathers for now on

We don’t actually know her breeding but she has some cob in her certainly

 

[Jambarissa]

I have just bought one with moderate CPL. It should have reduced his value but owners didn't even know what it was and vet said he wouldn't describe it as 'active CPL' and horse wasn't lame, had no lesions etc so nothibg to report on vetting.

I should have walked away but a perfect horse being kept in poor conditions so imo I paid far too much but I'm sure they'd have got it from someone else since few buyers know what CPL is.

I think it's hard to find a draft or cob without it to some extent. I've clipped and turned out in huge hilly field, feed correctly and it looks fine. It's just another thing to keep an eye on.

 

[meesha]

Not read all the posts but my friend used fiprotec on her horse ... I could hear him stamping all the time, not one stamp since!! I then used it on new loan pony who was stamping, against she has stopped stamping. Both have very lumpy scabby legs, once she has shed her winter coat be interesting to see if any improvement to skin too. One pipette on each leg ....

 

[Bobthecob15]

I have just bought one with moderate CPL. It should have reduced his value but owners didn't even know what it was and vet said he wouldn't describe it as 'active CPL' and horse wasn't lame, had no lesions etc so nothibg to report on vetting.

I should have walked away but a perfect horse being kept in poor conditions so imo I paid far too much but I'm sure they'd have got it from someone else since few buyers know what CPL is.

I think it's hard to find a draft or cob without it to some extent. I've clipped and turned out in huge hilly field, feed correctly and it looks fine. It's just another thing to keep an eye on.

Sounds like this one, occasionally has scabs which clear up with creams. No lameness or folds or anything. Legs clipped out all the time.

My only concern is we can’t have out 24/7 where we are, winter they are in afternoon/overnight and summer out overnight. They do move around a fair bit though as they go on the horsewalker twice a day or loose school/turnout pen twice a day if the fields are soaking…plus ridden work etc. Probably not ideal

 

[Goldenstar]

This is an old thread but I just wondered if those with experience of the condition could tell me if this would significantly affect a horses value? We are looking at one for possible purchase and she has M&S, the owner thinks its possible its CPL but never diagnosed. It's well managed and legs clipped, occasionally needs a bit of cream. Never lame with it. She is a super horse in all ways otherwise. Priced a bit lower than some with similar experience etc...so I think they have adjusted for the M&S. We would be vetting if we went head. Thanks

So my horse Blue has mallenders I posted further up .
He’s an extremely nice horse and would sell very easily for more than I paid for him but we have done a lot of training .
He’s very easily managed but we do have to manage him but everything we do is just about good management it’s not complicated stuff the biggest pain is the clipping all year round and the weight control .