CR gurus, opinions on this horse please. *VIDEOS*

charlimouse

charlimouse

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I'm deliberately not giving you much information about him, but I just want some fresh pairs of eyes to watch the videos and tell me their thoughts, with no pre conceptions. I'll give you more info on the situation and the horse when I have some completely fresh opinions of him. The only thing I will say is he is a 6yo warmblood X TB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MMYBDvl5kE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgYPNVnwqZQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW8Px85RrNI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYvb6G13XWM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqhRMJfLlZc
 
would like to see a quiter rider, a canter a trot up and some standing pics. looks athletic-why the neckstrap? doesnt look undermuscled enough to be a total baby-guessing he''s been in work a while?
 
I'm far too much of an ignoramus to offer any sort of opinion, but I will point out that horse, rider and arena appear to be filmed in black and white, despite the surroundings being in colour... spooky!! :D
 
I like his name :D

Nice sort, not quite tracking up and a little inconsistant in the mouth (but rider is a bit 'handy').

Would want to see more variation of him though as SusieT says.
 
I think he looked a bit unlevel behind in the vid of him trotting away. But only very short so may be wrong
 
He looks quite inconsistant in the contact and not overly established in his way of going for a 6 year old. He doesn't really do it for me though- he moves quite averagely and is a little plain, though I suspect there could be plenty more to find in there
 
I suppose it depends on what you are looking for the horse to do if you buy it? It seems to have a nice trot work.. Moves nice and freely and evenly behind. He is a little inconsistent with his head but the rider seems to be doing alot and maybe too much niggling at him. I like the horse though, seems quiet and easy from the video :)
 
mollichop said:
I like his name :D

Nice sort, not quite tracking up and a little inconsistant in the mouth (but rider is a bit 'handy').
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^^ This, definitely. From the short clips available, doesn't look like an issue that can't be resolved with the right training/rider, if indeed it is something you would be bothered about :)
 
Gosh i'm surprised by the responses so far :eek:! Not in a bad way, infact i'm rather pleased :):rolleyes:. I'm not looking to buy him, i've owned him for the past 3 years :o:eek:. I'm the one riding him in the videos and I know my hands are a serious weak link :o:(, however looking at those videos compared to one of me 6 months ago they have improved alot, so rest assured they are a work in progress :cool:. Though you lot have given me a kick up the ar$e to make sure they get better, i'm so used to them I don't tend to realise how bad they look until somebody points it out :eek::rolleyes:.

Sorry about the colours on the vids, my camera settings have somehow got messed up, and I can't work out how to get it back to filming with normal colours :rolleyes::o!
 
Charlimouse - You just need to relax your arms and give your hands forwards more, shorten the reins a bit and just squeeze with the fingers like you would if you were squuezing out a sponge. All the while making sure the horse is travelling forwards and working actively from behind. Do lots of transitions with this horse, trot/walk/trot etc, he needs to move more from behind and swing more freely into the contact. The only reason hes a little inconsistent in the head is because his back is tense and hes not swinging through properly. Lots of leg yielding aswell will help this, circles, serpentines - anything to increase the suppleness and bend in the body.

Nice looking horse and dont be so hard on yourself, he just needs a bit of oooommpphhh!!! ;) :D
 
Thanks for that Tempi. Never thought of it like squeezing out a sponge before, but it's a really good analogy :)!

These responses are really interesting, as it give me hope that his 'problem' may not be quite so big as he thought :rolleyes:. I thought it was obvious, but evidently it isn't :eek:!!!!!
 
Is there a problem with his legs? You seem to focus on filming them quite a lot, but I can't see anything blindingly obvious...
 
He looks very green and inconsistent in his outline - at 6 i would expect a horse to be working in a consistent prelim out line at the very least.
Also, is he lazy? The rider seems to be nagging a lot, and I noticed she has both spurs and a schooling whip?
 
galaxy23 said:
I think he looked a bit unlevel behind in the vid of him trotting away. But only very short so may be wrong
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^^^This

If what I think I see is actually a thing then I think that may be the root cause of the front end inconsistancies and tightness over the back etc.

However you're clearly aware of whatever is or isn't going on and have it under control ;)
 
It's very hard to judge absolute evenness in a horse with one white sock, which is why dressage riders try to avoid them if they can. Even if you're aware of the bias it can produce an optical illusion.

There's also the problem that if you look for trouble, you will undoubtedly find it. ;)

Anyway, seeing is such a tiny part of it. I've sat on lots of horses that looked more or less okay doing relatively easy stuff, but felt like a train wreck and others that appeared to be disastrous but felt (and almost always were) very fixable. Some horses are stoic, some are not. Some problems are only problems in very narrow but important ways, others are "way of going" and easily solved. Horses can look uneven for all sorts of reasons and often even very broken ones can look okay (and possibly fixed) ridden carefully.

Very hard to say without history and more information. Is the question would a judge "pass" that trot work? With the qualifiers above, yes. You certainly wouldn't get whistled out. But that's all we can judge.

Showing the horse cantering and loose/unfettered on the longe would provide more information, sitting on him that much more again.
 
Thanks for the replys everyone :). So here is the score. In the 3 years i've had Colin he has spent more time off due to mystery lameness than in work. Hence he is very behind in is education :(. The lameness was not obvious, but was very noticeable when sat on him. After lots of time off with no change, my vet advised me to work him until he became obviously lame. 2 months ago he went very lame, so into the vets he went for a full lameness work up :cool:. Eventually they diagnosed bone spavins in both hocks (but worse in the right), and immflamation of his suspensory ligaments (vet thinks caused by Colin compensating for his hocks) :(. Both hocks were injected with steroids, and after 3 weeks field rest I was able to start light ridden work. Everything went fine and after 3 weeks I was allowed to begin harder work and a bit of canter. He did 1 canter and immediately went lame behind :(. Back to the vets we went, and the hocks were injected with steroids again. After a week of field rest light work could resume. The videos were taken on the first day I took him in the school and to me he felt pretty lame. It feels like his right hip just drops away completely :(. Looking at the videos to me he looks short on his right hind, but I wasn't sure weather it was me being a hyperchondric :o, or weather he genuinely does look lame, hence posting the videos on here.

It is now 2 weeks since his hocks were last injected, and i'm really not sure where to go next with him. It is interesting reading alot of the comments people have made on this thread as it just goes to show how decieving videos can be :rolleyes::eek:. Colin is a little $hit (for what of a better word) :eek:. He will just out of the blue chuck the rider off when it takes his fancy (normally when hacking out, but he has done it several times in the arena :(). As a rider you have no chance of sticking on, he just turns into a rodeo animal, and won't stop until you are on the floor. 90% of the time in the arena at home he is fine, but there is that 10% of the time where he is frankly dangerous. Out hacking or the few times i have taken him to small competitions about 50% of the time he is ok, the other 50% you have no chance. Once he gets into the 'i'm going to chuck you on the floor' mentality he also becomes a little sod to handle and can turn round and kick anybody who gets close to him. So where do I go from here, as you can see on the video most of the time in the arena at home he is fine, and he does have potential, but he has these complete brain transplants, where there is just no reasoning behind them (I've been trying to find the reason for 3 years, he has seen more saddle fitters, dentists, physios and farriers than I can shake a stick at :o). But you have no idea from one day to the next what you are going to be sitting on. So really what I am getting at is if he is lame again and the steroid injections are not working, there are more expensive treatments we could go for, but for a horse like this is it worth it :confused::o:(? TBH I don't have time or the space for a field ornament, but he is never going to be the competition horse I want him to be. So what do I do? Vets have given him a 70% chance of becoming sound, but they cannot say weather he will ever stand up to hard work. Hmmmmmmm, it's a difficult one :o:confused:.
 
I think it's the name. I know three horses named Colin and they are all chronically not-so-sound in a way that's more obvious in their behaviour/performance than in good old fashioned limping.

Are you sure the hocks aren't secondary? Sorry, don't mean to stir the pot but the history sounds more like a top line problem to me. Although "anywhere between the nose and the tail" isn't very helpful, is it. :(
 
aww no :(
thats a horrible situation to be in ,he looks a nice horse too (when he's being good)

i'd pts in that situation ,if obviously everything has been checked ,checked and checked again which sounds as if you have tried everything
he sounds like the type who couldn't just do light work ,he couldn't very well be a light hack bless him :(
even if he could be "put right" i'd imagine he would need a lot of work to keep the behavior in check ,which in turn he prob wouldn't stand up to

in all honesty i think sadly you have reached the end of the road with him and are running out of options
i am sorry if thats not what you wanted to here and maybe there are other options to try as i obviously am only going on what iv'e read about him

really difficult situation to be in esp with such a lovely looking young horse , really sorry for you :( x
 
angelish said:
i'd pts in that situation ,if obviously everything has been checked ,checked and checked again which sounds as if you have tried everything
he sounds like the type who couldn't just do light work ,he couldn't very well be a light hack bless him :(
even if he could be "put right" i'd imagine he would need a lot of work to keep the behavior in check ,which in turn he prob wouldn't stand up to


really difficult situation to be in esp with such a lovely looking young horse , really sorry for you :( x
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I do find myself agreeing with this :( He sounds pretty nasty when he flips (not to mention dangerous) and even if he could be a field ornament would the vets have any idea of what sort of drugs etc he would need to be on to keep him comfortable? good luck x
 
My observations on the horse would be as follows:

The horse appears weak behind, not really powering from behind or using hind legs to full effect, noticable lack of elasticity in the hind joints. This seems to be compounded/not helped by the horse not really working truly over his back and lifting through the wither, hence - IMO - the inconsistencies in the hand.

The most noticable thing for me was the weakness behind and, if it were my horse or if the horse came to me to work with then I would be doing work on a pessoa on the lowest setting to really build up the topline muscles and encourage the hind end as I think this would make a world of difference to the horse's way of going and - more importantly - strength behind.
 
Ha, also know of lame Colins, your boy is not by Colin Diamond by any chance? He looks like a typical C.D.

I wouldnt say he looked lame I would just say he looked very weak behind.

I dont know what to suggest, I guess I would be calling it a day, unless you wanted to try 6 months fast walking out on hacks on a long rein, lots of going up hills to see if he got stronger and felt better after doing that. He may well be less likely to buck if put under less pressure to 'work round' and is just allowed a long rein for a couple of months?
 
I have to agree with the PTS suggestion, keeping such a young horse with such chronic lameness issues and no guarantee of no pain even in the field isn't fair on them. Mt friends horse has slight hock issues which the injections have sorted but f he's lame again after two weeks and little work then. Don't think it fair on them.

I have to say he is a lovely looking horse such a shame and a waste, is he hacking sound?? X
 
I might have totally the wrong person/horse here but this isn't the Scottish sports horse you had a couple of years ago is it?
It's a shame to have so many problems with a young horse but as the others have said if he is unlikely to stay sound in decent work but doesn't have the temprament, potentially the only viable options are field ornament or PTA which whilst sad, would prevent the problem possibly being passed on - you might be able to find him a nice home as a companion etc but who knows where he might get passed on to from there :( speaking from personal experience you can never guarantee a home for life for a horse that isn't sound to ride, ours was sold with a guaranteed buy back as a broodie and she ended up in a dealers yard the other end of the country :(
 
Have the vets advised if fusing the hocks using the alcohol injection route would be suitable? I know he is young but if they think he is suitable it would mean he would be pain free and might have a chance of being someone's horse if not yours. We have a horse that had this done with great success, we also have another horse who is only 9 who has been turned away for a year and his hocks are fusing naturally and they are now both either sound or coming sound :)
(I'm no expert so please disregard if not applicable)
 
Poor you and what a sad situation.

Whatever choice you make, I think you can happily say that you have done as much as you can for him and that you have made that choice for the right reasons.
 
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