Craig and Classic Opera

[Mochi]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has had any experience with offspring from Bellegrace Stud's Craig or Gemini's Classic Opera? I like them both for my mare potentially but wanted to know if anyone could tell me anything that could help me choose. I prefer Classic Opera's type and competitive record, but Craig's temperament keeps him on the short list. Does Opera throw larger foals? I'm concerned that he is only 15h, I like my horses big and my girl is 16.2. Also would appreciate any thoughts confirmation wise as I'm just learning. I'm open to suggestions also. Thank you!

 

[The Bouncing Bog Trotter]

Craig has the most amazing temperament that he passes on to his offspring. I chose him for my mare based on his behaviour at a stallion show and then when I went to see him at home. He really stamps his foals with exceptional quality. I wanted to breed a foal that could be ridden by a ‘normal rider’ rather than a pro. However I’m not sure what his terms are for 2020, I thought he was frozen only unless you are lucky being based in France.

 

[Mochi]

Craig has the most amazing temperament that he passes on to his offspring. I chose him for my mare based on his behaviour at a stallion show and then when I went to see him at home. He really stamps his foals with exceptional quality. I wanted to breed a foal that could be ridden by a ‘normal rider’ rather than a pro. However I’m not sure what his terms are for 2020, I thought he was frozen only unless you are lucky being based in France.

Encouraging! He seems to be everything they say he is then. As for his terms I'm not sure either, it'll be our first competition season together next year so I was thinking of breeding her late 2021 if possible. I don't know if he'll even be available then, but if he is hopefully by that time both me and Penny will be in the UK. Honestly I've just been looking around and seeing whats out there.

 

[sallyf]

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has had any experience with offspring from Bellegrace Stud's Craig or Gemini's Classic Opera? I like them both for my mare potentially but wanted to know if anyone could tell me anything that could help me choose. I prefer Classic Opera's type and competitive record, but Craig's temperament keeps him on the short list. Does Opera throw larger foals? I'm concerned that he is only 15h, I like my horses big and my girl is 16.2. Also would appreciate any thoughts confirmation wise as I'm just learning. I'm open to suggestions also. Thank you!

Unless your looking for a show horse Craig has the far superior competition record.

 

[ihatework]

It’s an odd pair of stallions to put in the same list.

What is the mare and what level/type of work are you wanting the offspring to do?

Classic Opera is tiny. His Eventing record is nothing to shout about either, especially given he was ridden by someone with advanced experience. That said, he is only young so I’m not sure you can go in anything other than what he is doing under saddle himself it’s too early to see how his offspring are really likely to do. There are much better options out there if you are looking for jumping/Eventing stallion. I’d imagine his market will be more showing and it’s nice for breeders to have available a small type blood horse, but that’s not my bag.

Craig I don’t know much about his offspring. He himself is a nice model and if his sales pitch on his temperament is to be believed then that’s a positive. Again his attempt at Eventing was poor enough that he would never be in the mix for anything other than RC level jumping.
But on the positive he has stayed in work for a number of seasons and is chipping away at the dressage at a reasonable level, especially if pitched for an amateur. I’d see him as a good option for a smart amateur allrounder with a bias towards dressage.

 

[turkana]

I love Classic Opera, I used to have a 14.3 pocket rocket who was was fantastic lead horse for team chasing, he would have been a good husband if I'd wanted to breed a replacement, he's just the sort of horse that I like but I prefer small horses.
Craig is lovely too but if I was breeding for myself it would be Classic Opera for me but I apreciate why he would have a more limited market

 

[sallyf]

It’s an odd pair of stallions to put in the same list.

What is the mare and what level/type of work are you wanting the offspring to do?

Classic Opera is tiny. His Eventing record is nothing to shout about either, especially given he was ridden by someone with advanced experience. That said, he is only young so I’m not sure you can go in anything other than what he is doing under saddle himself it’s too early to see how his offspring are really likely to do. There are much better options out there if you are looking for jumping/Eventing stallion. I’d imagine his market will be more showing and it’s nice for breeders to have available a small type blood horse, but that’s not my bag.

Craig I don’t know much about his offspring. He himself is a nice model and if his sales pitch on his temperament is to be believed then that’s a positive. Again his attempt at Eventing was poor enough that he would never be in the mix for anything other than RC level jumping.
But on the positive he has stayed in work for a number of seasons and is chipping away at the dressage at a reasonable level, especially if pitched for an amateur. I’d see him as a good option for a smart amateur allrounder with a bias towards dressage.

Craig is competing PSG dressage.
he is also approved Trakhaner verband in Germany which is quite an achievement.

 

[ihatework]

Craig is competing PSG dressage.
he is also approved Trakhaner verband in Germany which is quite an achievement.

Yes, he is a 14yo at PSG scoring mid 60’s. And with the approvals certainly has a place as a stallion. I like him, he is the type I’d want if breeding something for me to ride. I’m not sure he’d have a queue for UL dressage breeders but the market is rammed with those anyway.

 

[Mochi]

It’s an odd pair of stallions to put in the same list.

What is the mare and what level/type of work are you wanting the offspring to do?

Classic Opera is tiny. His Eventing record is nothing to shout about either, especially given he was ridden by someone with advanced experience. That said, he is only young so I’m not sure you can go in anything other than what he is doing under saddle himself it’s too early to see how his offspring are really likely to do. There are much better options out there if you are looking for jumping/Eventing stallion. I’d imagine his market will be more showing and it’s nice for breeders to have available a small type blood horse, but that’s not my bag.

Craig I don’t know much about his offspring. He himself is a nice model and if his sales pitch on his temperament is to be believed then that’s a positive. Again his attempt at Eventing was poor enough that he would never be in the mix for anything other than RC level jumping.
But on the positive he has stayed in work for a number of seasons and is chipping away at the dressage at a reasonable level, especially if pitched for an amateur. I’d see him as a good option for a smart amateur allrounder with a bias towards dressage.

My mare is a big built Selle Francaise by Elf d'Or, she's a jumper up to 130 and she's been very successful in xc. I'm in France so I'm not sure what the equivilant is in the UK, but I'd like to be doing some medium level stuff, sj 120cm, whatever level dressage usually comes with that, and eventing only if I can get the guts to do xc.

Yes Classic Opera's height worried me as I myself love big horses, the bigger the better. I've always had an interest in showing so I thought it'd be nice to have some showing blood in there too. His bone and his head is what caught my eye, however after watching some of his videos I'm rather unimpressed. I think I'll be taking him off the list.

As for Craig I liked him, wasn't sure about his confirmation though. Unsure if he should be on my list still either at this point.

 

[Mochi]

Best photo of her that I have thats small enough for the website lol.

 

[Mochi]

By any chance does anyone have any experience with Palousa San Sebastian's progeny? Particularly temperament and bone. I don't want to refine my mare all that much as I like her the way she is. He's quickly becoming my favorite. If someone could help me understand genes a bit better also, he's a black leopard, with EE and Lp/lp, and I've noticed he throws dark bay, black, blanket, or leopard. If my mare is a dark bay, is it then possible to narrow down coat colors or is it still complicated?

 

[TheMule]

I've seen PSS a few times and he has never looked sound behind. He's quite a solid and tall horse
I think you need to narrow down your requirements and look within a more limited range of stallions, the 3 mentioned here would all be very different

 

[Mochi]

I've seen PSS a few times and he has never looked sound behind. He's quite a solid and tall horse
I think you need to narrow down your requirements and look within a more limited range of stallions, the 3 mentioned here would all be very different

Thanks for your input. I'm still learning about conformation, in what way does he not look sound?

Yes I suppose it does look like I'm a bit all over the place and in some ways thats true. I'm open to considering anything really, but I do have restrictions.

16h+ (16.2+ preferably) or throws tall foals
any color
decent bone so as not to refine that much, I like my mare's build
no more then 50% TB
calm and easy going temperament is an absolute must as I am not a pro
Successful eventing career, although I'm open to younger stallions too.
Confirmationally sound for eventing, with priority on good pasterns as my mare is weak in that area
Eventing pedigree, although as my mare is jumping bred would it be an advantage to choose a stallion that is slightly more dressage bred?
Zangershiede stud approved is a big bonus, but being registered with any stud under the WBFSH works.

Is there anything else to add or consider?

 

[Madone]

I have a Craig baby, one of the eldest. He is rising six and 16.2. He literally is THE nicest horse! He has been easy from day one.
Jane Nixon at the Futurity as a yearling adored his conformation and type for an eventer.
Of the people who have met him since the show people want him for showing, dressage people for dressage and the eventers think he would be wasted doing either lol!
I've two mares in foal to him for next year! He has plenty of frozen available and it's really good quality.
In terms of Craigs earlier ridden record, his owner at Bellegrace rode him herself as an amateur with some serious health issues.
He has progressed quickly in his dressage with a professional and invited to present to the Trakehner Verband -thats a hell of an achievement!

I've looked at Classic Opera and like him. My concern would be some hot bloodlines behind him.

 

[Mochi]

I have a Craig baby, one of the eldest. He is rising six and 16.2. He literally is THE nicest horse! He has been easy from day one.
Jane Nixon at the Futurity as a yearling adored his conformation and type for an eventer.
Of the people who have met him since the show people want him for showing, dressage people for dressage and the eventers think he would be wasted doing either lol!
I've two mares in foal to him for next year! He has plenty of frozen available and it's really good quality.
In terms of Craigs earlier ridden record, his owner at Bellegrace rode him herself as an amateur with some serious health issues.
He has progressed quickly in his dressage with a professional and invited to present to the Trakehner Verband -thats a hell of an achievement!

I've looked at Classic Opera and like him. My concern would be some hot bloodlines behind him.

Craig certainly is a wonderful stallion! I know many people love the horses that they've bred from him. I personally am concerned that he stamps his foals so heavily though as I am not fond of his head as a whole, not my style. Good luck with your two mares!

Yes I did like Opera a lot, however he's off the list for me, don't like the way he moves at all. He looks lovely in photos, however in video I found his legs much too dainty for his body for my taste.