crates and large dogs.

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paddy555

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It may seem a silly question but if you buy a pup of a large breed and want to crate the pup and later the dog do you end up buying about 3 different sizes as the pup grows. Or in my case 6 as I want crates in both the bedroom and sitting room. That is an awful lot of crates or am I missing something? Breed is male GSD who will be a big lad and need the extra large size within a year. I want to use the crate to toilet train as well and I understood the crates had to be relatively small ie couldn't have an 8 week old pup rolling around in an extra large crate.
 
I buy the crate they will use as an adult, they spend more time in it as a pup and need room to explore, move about, eat in it, toilet if desperate overnight as an adult dog mine only go in a crate when tired rather than when I cannot watch them.
 
General rule of thumb is buy the largest crate you can afford, and that offers the full grown animal the most amount of space you can spare. As a pup they will need space to jump about, more likely to wee and poo all over it so more space to have a bed/water/toilet area is recommended. Not quite sure how a smaller crate would help toilet train, as they will just end up peeing and pooing in their bed. Toilet training comes from regular toilet breaks and praise for doing it outside, not from forcing them to hold it in because they dont naturally "want" to pee in their bed.
 
I have Flatcoated Retrievers and yes, I do happen to own three different size crates but the smallest wasn’t bought for a flatcoat. I think if I hadn’t happened to have the smallest one, I would just have used a medium and large.
The pups grow amazingly quickly, it would be a luxury to have every size. My latest pup looked small in the smallest crate at first and if she had really wanted to she could have peed in there, but she never did. With good management they very quickly get the idea.
 
How funny, while I was writing, equi replied and I don’t agree with her at all. My pup goes in her crate as a bed not as somewhere to romp around in and pee. They should learn from moment one that they pee outside and nowhere else. My current pup is now 6months and has never peed or pooed in the house or her crate.
 
Chiffy said:
How funny, while I was writing, equi replied and I don’t agree with her at all. My pup goes in her crate as a bed not as somewhere to romp around in and pee. They should learn from moment one that they pee outside and nowhere else. My current pup is now 6months and has never peed or pooed in the house or her crate.
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My post kind of hinted that the crate should not be used as a toilet training method, but overnight a pup is not going to be able to hold it in in some cases so would you not rather have more space so they learn they dont pee on the bed ? All dogs are different obviously...mine never peed in the house and was never crated in her life until she dislocated her hip and was bed bound for weeks. Even then she wouldnt pee.
 
My pups are shut in a crate overnight and do not wee in it. They go straight in large size, although I wouldn't feel happy leaving an adult lab in the cage they have as a pup, mine are not caged after about 6 months.
 
We bought the largest size crate available for the Rotter pups to share, we had puppy pads in there overnight. As they grew we bought a 2nd crate and fixed the two together. They consider the crate to be their bed. They were very quickly house-trained but did use the puppy pads overnight, if necessary.
 
I generally go through two crates - initially could you move a smaller one from room to room? If it's adult gsd sized the pup is likely to toilet in it which defeats part of the purpose.
 
equi said:
My post kind of hinted that the crate should not be used as a toilet training method, but overnight a pup is not going to be able to hold it in in some cases so would you not rather have more space so they learn they dont pee on the bed ? All dogs are different obviously...mine never peed in the house and was never crated in her life until she dislocated her hip and was bed bound for weeks. Even then she wouldnt pee.
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Its really useful for toilet training. I got up in the night with mine for a few weeks until he was old enough to hold it. I've never had one pee in the crate. They dont want to go to the toilet on their bed. If you get a bigger one it can encourage them to use it like that though.

You could get an adult size crate and one of the dividers to partition it off to a more suitable size as the puppy grows.
 
Crates are great for toilet training so yes you are right about wanting a smaller one to start with. You can get large crates which have a divider insert so you can start small and gradually increase.
Alternatively you can usually pick up smaller crates quite cheaply from the small ads, or see if you know anyone who you can borrow one off.

As a breed GSDs are usually pretty quick to house train, I have usually managed to get litters I bred having a good idea of going outside by the time they go to their new homes , and pups I keep are usually clean overnight within a week or two without being let out in the middle of the night.
 
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Leo Walker said:
Its really useful for toilet training. I got up in the night with mine for a few weeks until he was old enough to hold it. I've never had one pee in the crate. They dont want to go to the toilet on their bed. If you get a bigger one it can encourage them to use it like that though.

You could get an adult size crate and one of the dividers to partition it off to a more suitable size as the puppy grows.
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the dividers are a good idea. The ones I was looking at didn't have them so I will look further.

I understood, perhaps wrongly as I have never used a crate before but pup will come alreay trained to one, that they slept/chilled out in one and then came out to play and out very frequently to toilet.
Never used puppy pads. Do they save work?

Having one for each room rather than moving it is a luxury for me.
 
We bought a large crate straight off when we got Luna (husky). She has never toileted in it, will go in there to sleep during the day now of her own accord. The only time she is shut in it now, is at feeding, as she will just annoy Aled all the time, and when they have their bones, as Aled will steal and hoard them. She lets us know when she’s finished having a gnaw, door opened, bone removed, and she comes out when she feels like it. We’ve caught her and Aled asleep in it together on occasion, and quite often the cat goes in, won’t let the dogs have it!
 
paddy555 said:
the dividers are a good idea. The ones I was looking at didn't have them so I will look further.

I understood, perhaps wrongly as I have never used a crate before but pup will come alreay trained to one, that they slept/chilled out in one and then came out to play and out very frequently to toilet.
Never used puppy pads. Do they save work?

Having one for each room rather than moving it is a luxury for me.
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I've never used them before these last two pups but they were useful. The crate was big enough to split in 2, with bed and pads. The pads do attract the pups to wee on them, as soon as they were big enough/ clean enough during the day we stopped using the pads. I do not get up during the night with pups, as I think that it teaches them to 'need' to go out during the night.
 
I start really young pups in a portable plastic crate which can be used in the car and moved from room to room as needed. Then when they outgrow that they go into an adult sized crate. Both mine have been exceptionally easy to house train and never urinated in their crates. However Using a crate doesn't excuse you from the normal routine of taking them out very regularly to toilet! However I found that they would be able to go from midnight to 5.30am overnight straightaway and then We slowly extended this period. Never used puppy pads, I would rather they learn to go only outside straight away.
 
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Always have used maximum size and always for sleeping/chilling. It's not a place to play around and it's definitely not for peeing in. A GSD pup at that age should be well able to hold it overnight.
 
CorvusCorax said:
Always have used maximum size and always for sleeping/chilling. It's not a place to play around and it's definitely not for peeing in. A GSD pup at that age should be well able to hold it overnight.
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did you divide the max size for a pup or let it have the whole lot.
max size seems to be xxl.
 
Both of mine have one of thos large whelping crates-Quarrie had one straight away and was housetrained with it-never peed in it save once when he was 10 weeks when I first got him. They have toys in them, water and are fed in them etc. fitz was housetrained at 7 months using one too.
 
We never fed ours in the crate - except for a treat for going in on command, which they still have. They were very easily house-trained, not sure whether the crate played much of a part in the training but they are very bright dogs and soon cotton on to anything we introduce.
 
Mine has a parrot bowl (bowl in a hoop, hooked on inside door) for water as I can't abide bowl-scooting and any food he gets in there is just scattered at the front as an adult. When he was a pup he would have got it in a Kong, not that big on feeding out of bowls. Plus as mentioned he throws them about lol.
But to make a strong positive association for going in I think it's important.
I removed toys when he was up a bit.
 
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Chiffy said:
How funny, while I was writing, equi replied and I don’t agree with her at all. My pup goes in her crate as a bed not as somewhere to romp around in and pee. They should learn from moment one that they pee outside and nowhere else. My current pup is now 6months and has never peed or pooed in the house or her crate.
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These is what I was told too, don't have a puppy crate too much bigger than necessary or pup will just use the surplus space as a loo!
 
thanks everyone who replied. A lot of helpful comments. I am going to get an extra large, give him a chance re the peeing/pooing and if he isn't clean put a divider in it.
 
That sounds a plan paddy. Everyone has their own favourite ways but most of us were on about the same track. Good luck and have fun, they grow up so quickly.
 
Chiffy said:
That sounds a plan paddy. Everyone has their own favourite ways but most of us were on about the same track. Good luck and have fun, they grow up so quickly.
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thanks. He is 1 week old. Only 6 left to go but they are going to seem endless!!
 
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