Crates!

I would have that if the labradors mentioned had such high energy when out of the crate the last thing they would want to do is lie and chew something! As CC says many top working dogs spend quite a bit of time in a crate, but the are usually sleeping as when out of the crate they are exercised and worked at a very high level
 
There's certainly a case for those who take in dogs, on a regular basis and in a rescue capacity perhaps, to have the need to contain dogs for the safety of all. That will be clear.

My argument against the regular and permanent use of crates, within the home, is that it is better for a dog to learn where its bed is and the discipline of being sent to its bed and remaining there, is part of the regime of living indoors. The dog willingly goes to its crate? It would just as willingly go to a bed were it where the crate is, I'd suggest. Unless we have a vast kitchen (say), then crates will surely be an obstacle to be worked around for the owner, I'd have thought.

The final negative for me is that rather like leads, I believe that it's possibly a mistake to be reliant upon 'preventing' a dog from doing something, rather than the discipline of having the dog follow our wishes. Of course I have a dog lead, of some sort and there's always one in the car or my pocket. Having a dog which is obedient and compliant is about the dog accepting the rules which we set and, for me anyway, it's all a part of the deal whereby the dog and I live together. For me, puppies learn where their bed is and they learn to stay there when told, and I see it as a vital part of us living together. After the initial lesson is learnt, mostly everything else seems to fall in to place and without the use of a cage.

I went to an equine stud farm a few years back, and the owners lived in a huge and rambling country house with the usual enormous kitchen. On a length of rope, tied to the kitchen table, was a labrador which was rather full of itself. The bloody thing was permanently in someone's way. The owner apologised for the dog and bawled at it to go and lie down, which it ignored. I so nearly said "Why don't you train the dog", but resisted the temptation!

Anyway, just my thoughts, there are those who rely upon crates and those who refuse to, and I'm amongst the latter. :)

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
Anyway, just my thoughts, there are those who rely upon crates and those who refuse to, and I'm amongst the latter. :)

Alec.
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I think 'rely' is harsh. TBF you do have kennels. When young pups ours are in the crate so they can sleep in the same room as the old dog but she would not tolerate being tormented. It makes house training easier as they make more effort to hold on. The last uncrated pup chewed the kitchen chairs and took the floor tiles up (no great loss they were all old and decrepid). I am not generally for new ways of doing things, but crates to me are a no brainer. When we lose the crate, at about 4- 6 months we leave the dogs bed in the same place and it just goes and lies on there when told.
Our crates are only used when we are not there and when we are eating. IOf I go up for a shower pup goes in the crate, if I am cooking dinner it won't be as I am there to keep an eye out.
Just my thoughts. :-)
I know people regard them as jails but dogs really don't. An old terrierman I knoew had rows of them in his garden full of working terriers, they NEVER came out except to go digging. That was abuse and truly hideous to see.
 
I think even the master trainers haven't found a way to prevent a dog from doing something, when they're asleep.

My kitchen isn't huge, my crate is just an extension of the worktop, I can store stuff on top of it and I can even use it to stand on and reach the fuse box :p
 
I took the crate outside for a good clean and left it there to dry as i had washed it. When i went back out to bring it in I found two labradors sat in it?

They have only ever spent short periods of time in it, visiting children who wouldn't leave them alone being one time it was invaluable.

I think crates have there place but only if used wisely.
 
Our crate is where the previous tenants had their dining table, we eat off our laps 'cos we're common like. :p

FWIW I could not have kept one of my dogs without using a crate; her severe, destructive separation anxiety would have been impossible to overcome without a way of confining her on the rare occasions I couldn't be there to control her behaviour. It was essentially a bed that handily reinforced my wishes while I wasn't there. The door hasn't been shut now for years but it might as well stay for future pups and the safety of the odd stray animal that ends up coming home (occupational hazard). The spare spaniel crate is currently housing a tortoise...
 
Alec, just because your dog is crate trained does not mean they also aren't trained to go and lay in bed and stay there when asked. Both by boys, even the youngster will do just that when I ask and stay there. However the youngster is crated when we are out as I don't trust him not to chew. He doesn't chew anything when I am here, he knows not to, but when I'm not there he could, so for his safety I'd prefer him crated. Once he's older I'll make the move to leaving the door open then remove it completely. My older one has gone through this process and is fine. However he is crated away from home as I said above, most house owners are happier I find when you tell them the dogs will be shut away
 
My dogs aren't working breeds, but they certainly understand a crate. Previous dogs have been flown in to the UK, crate definitely required for that. Would have been stressful for me and them if they didn't have at least an understanding of a crate. Dogs go to vets, they have to be kennelled. Dogs go to groomers, they sometimes go in kennels. Dogs will do so many things once they understand what they're doing.


Mine will see a crate down and go lay in it just because it's there. Mine go to shows, and on long car journeys and are in crates for that. Once we start agility with the little'un there will be times when she is in the car with doors open and crates for safety.

Some people prefer to walk their dogs off lead, but doesn't mean that they shouldn't be lead trained.
 
ester said:
Isn't a crate just a covered, den-like, bed though Alec?
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Well yes, I suppose that it is! There will be those high energy dogs which would stress and therefore struggle with being in a cage, but otherwise I've not said that I believe caging a dog to be wrong, I just wonder at the need for it with dogs which live in a well socialised and happy environment. I also wonder that not just with dogs, but with horses too, if we don't surround ourselves sometimes with a load of needless clutter!

Our kitchen measures about 14' x 12', pretty average I suspect, and what with all the paraphernalia including a large table with 6 chairs, I wonder where we'd put it! The only dog which we have living in the house has a plastic bed with a removable sort of mattress thing, and it's in my tiny office. The floor space taken up by the bed would be about the same as taken up by a crate, but at least I can step over his bed.

Thankfully we all have the freedom to express our opinions and views!

Alec.
 
I use them for young pups, I use them in the van, I use them when we go away and take them with us and I have used one for a fearful dog. Not using one in the house atm as there is no need but to my mind, its a life skill for dogs as well as most of them liking one. Likewise I expect my horses to be good with being stabled when they need to be.
 
My sister uses one for new puppy's quiet space, where she can eat and sleep in peace. At only 10 weeks old she knows to go in there where she is snuggled up for the night. The door is always left open in the day for her to come and go. She has a puppy pad in there where she wees and has not done one poo inside she has learned to go outside.

Also for when sis has to pop out for a short period of time she knows puppy is safe in her crate.

They must NOT be used for punishment IMO.
 
My best mate has 3.5 collies (one technically belongs next door)
this is what happened when they tried to take the latest puppy's crate down ;) I think the pup is still in there too somewhere.

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Whether or not you choose to use one regularly, I would recommend training the dog to settle in one. A time may come when you need to box rest a dog, and that is NOT the time to start I promise!

I do agree with Alec, my crates are a pain in the proverbial space wise, but its imperative for me that we have them, a because I have entire dogs and bitches and b, because I have intermittent fosters in.

The crates are usually not up/out, the dogs have beds in front of the aga or under the window, but without exception I make sure all of the dogs will happily stay in one when required.
 
I have a question regarding this, I have an 8 year old dog who was crate trained when he was a pup-he loved it and we only packed it away when we moved house.
We have a new puppy moving home next week that I will be using the crate for. I have been reading that I should keep the puppy seperate from my older dog for periods during the day/over night to give them a break and also so that the puppy doesn't look to my older dog rather than me. I was going to crate the pup separately-would you agree or do you think keep them together?
 
Leo, I found it was easiest for me to crate my pup and leave the boys loose but all enclosed in the kitchen together for periods that I had to be out/at night.
 
I used a crate for my pup when I left both dogs and went to do the horse and also overnight... main reason was safety of the pup in case older dog attacked her...I had no reason to suspect that older dog would as she is very good with other dogs but would rather be safe than sorry. also crate was very useful when pup was spayed to make sure she didn't jump around when I was out..
 
leo_04 said:
I have a question regarding this, I have an 8 year old dog who was crate trained when he was a pup-he loved it and we only packed it away when we moved house.
We have a new puppy moving home next week that I will be using the crate for. I have been reading that I should keep the puppy seperate from my older dog for periods during the day/over night to give them a break and also so that the puppy doesn't look to my older dog rather than me. I was going to crate the pup separately-would you agree or do you think keep them together?
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Crate the pup in the same room as the older dog sleeps, that was he'll have company and adequate rest and be safe.
 
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