Crib biting

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welshies

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Hi all

My 22 month old shire starting cribing last year. I have never had a horse with this problem but always remembered year back at the old riding schools etc they always said it was a vice and used collars etc to stop them, but have recently been reading that it has been linked to gastric issues. Such as ulcers (in extreme cases), and one article says it is the equivilant on burping? I'm new to this concept and just wondered what you all thought. My boy has got worse in about the last 3 months and seems to do it more during meals, he pops out to have a go on the post, i don't want to tell him off and stop him doing it if it some kind of discomfort and if it is what can do about it?

He is fed adlib hay and total feed: (split into 2) 3 scoops of Alfa A, 2 scoops of hifi original, 2 scoops of saracans level grow mix, limestone flour, garlic and soya oil. He is unrugged and live out, with 2 others during day and seperated at night so he can have more hay and a larege shelter. The only thing i thought it might be is the mix as it is said to be linked to concentrates that at harder to digest but what else could i feed to ensure such a large young horse is getting everything he needs to grow safely (large bones) and keep condition on him, I did put him on the pellets for a short time back in the summer but he lost condition. HELP! thanks
 
cribing can cause ulcers, my friends cribber recently came down with ulcers, he drasticaly lost weight so the vet was called who found he had gastric ulcers. it is a vice, and can be a sign of stress or discomfort, my horse box walks and runs his teeth along things when he gets stressy at meal times. alot of people say that cribbing and windsucking release endorphins into there body which is a happy hormone making or it fills an empty space in there stomach with air. you cant stop it now but you can reduce it, unfortunatly it is very damaging on stables and fencing so some YO can get funny about it, but if tbh, a collar only makes things worse, bit like taking fags off of a chain smoker! you just need to do things to reduce the problem. ad lib forage as you are doing is the first thing, keep the gut moving, when stabled give him some bordem breakers or something to keep him occupied. my friends vet recomended putting hay around the stable if a few piles to keep him moving and active rather than standing in one spot all night. you cant stop it but you can reduce it, youl prob find as he gets older her will start to do it in stressfull situations such as the othere horses on his yard being turned out without him etc. but as its got worse recently i would have the vet out to just check nothing is going on.
 
Don't understand why you are separating him so he can have more hay. Why can't they all have more hay? Hay is good, they can't have too much of it. If the others get too fat on hay give them more work or soak the hay to get rid of the sugar.

Leave him out with his mates. Whatever you do don't start using a crib collar. Horses crib because they are stressed. (Although over time it can become a habit like smoking.)

So leave him out with company or cribbing could become a life long problem.

My current rescue http://danceswithgrace.blogspot.com cribbed at some point in her life to the extent that she has worn her teeth right down. But she stopped when we fixed her lifestyle - but not all horses can when its an estabished habit. So put him back out with his mates and feed all the hay they can eat.
 
I just typed a great long reply and the bl**dy computer wiped it- aagh!

Anyway, i will try again. Cribbing is NOT a vice, it is usually caused by gastric discomfort, which can start as a foal. Gastric ulcers could be the cause of the weight loss tendency too. Because cribbing releases endorphins, sometimes the cause can be removed and the horse still cribs because they get a natural high. But it can be stopped in many cases or drastically reduced by good management and appropriate feeding. Collars should not be used and the horse should not be prevented from cribbing.

Avoid cereals and high starch feeds. Replace with something that is high energy but low starch such as top spec cool condition cubes.

Remove the garlic- garlic is anti-bacterial so could be reducing the good gut bacteria as well as the bad.

Limestone flour may reduce the acidity short term but research has shown there can be a drastic resultant increase in acid as the body tries to re-balance the pH. If the diet is balanced anyway the horse should be getting enough calcium for bone growth without it. Alfalfa is rich in calcium for a start.

The stomach empties in approx an hour and a half so long periods without food should be avoided. Ad lib hay and living out are excellent. Alfalfa is also a good feed for cribbers. I dont see a problem in seperating him for part of the day to give more hay if the others dont need it, thats a good idea.

I would speak to your vet and consider getting your horse endoscoped to see if the stomach is healthy. Ulcers may need to be treated to help get the cribbing under control.
 
We have a horse that did it on our yard, owner has put a Greenguard grazing muzzle on the hores 24/7 he can eat and drink with it on, the only time he has it off it too be ridden or have his shortfeed, as soon as he has eaten his shortfeed it goes back on, this horse now does not crib bite at all, the owner had previously tried a collar and he got colic with this, he is very happy with his muzzle and he has not been seen to try and crib bite at all and is eating the same amount of haylage as he was before. There is a company that do muzzles specifically for crib biting.

http://www.grazingmuzzles.co.uk/cribbing.htm
 
Agree with the above - it's usually linked to digestive disorders BUT I've also talked to several people who's horses have cribbed because of pain in other places. It doesn't sound like your youngster leads a particularly stressful life and his diet doesn't sound like it should be causing a problem, so perhaps your first action should be to have him checked over fully by a vet (preferably an equine specialist) - if it is a digestive problem then it sounds as if it might be something wrong with him rather than with his environment, but they could also look at musculoskeletal issues and other possible sources of pain. If nothing is found then you could move on to looking at diet. It's definitely not something to be ignored or punished though.
 
Aloe vera juice can also help, but you need to work out the cause of the cribbing. I have a 25 yr old who will crib under stress. He was kept with a horse that bullied him for many years, leading to stress and then cribbing.
As soon as he was kept with other ponies of the same size, and the foals, he was like a brand new pony! Cribbing stopped overnight.
Collaring will not work, and in many cases makes the problem worse. Muzzling is also ineffective in many cases, a really determined cribber doesnt need anything to latch onto to crib!
 
Sorry but I am slightly concerned everyone is saying not to collar without having seen the horse or being a vet???

Be very very careful, taking people's advice on cribbing, an intake of gas into the stomach can cause colic and a collar does stop this. BUT you need to consult your vet first, have a scope for ulcers and then take necessary actions.

Unfortunately we have a youngster who cribs, we didn't collar him and he coliced resulting in surgery. Not once but three times, each time the ONLY consistancy was being able to crib and we were told by three seperate vets, the colic was due to the cribbing. I am not saying all cribbing is due to this but please consult a professional on cribbing and get a second opinion! If you need to use a collar it is not the end of the world!
 
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