Cribbing and wind sucking - obligation to declare?

[oxo]

Just wanted to hear from the horses mouth so to speak! We trialled a horse this year that after asking all possible questions found out it was quite a hearty wind sucker and cribber on first day at new stables owner of stables was very unhappy understandably!

Anyway - we resolved to work with horse and keep problem at bay and this scenerio is now past history - however I would like to know is it an unwritten rule of courtesy or is there an actual law that states this vice Must be declared?

Just curious ....

 

[Clodagh]

Do you know I don't know. I would assume it was a declarable vice.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

It is a declarable vice along with box walking and weaving. You have grounds to send the horse back. It has to be stated in the advert for the horse right from the off.

 

[Suelin]

It is a declarable vice along with box walking and weaving. You have grounds to send the horse back. It has to be stated in the advert for the horse right from the off.

This, absolutely.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

As to whether it's declarable or not I'm not sure but as a responsible seller it should be declared along with any other issues the horse may have. If you don't let the buyer know everything there is a good possibly that the horse may be returned. Unless you are a dealer & have plenty of stable space many sellers are private & won't have anywhere for the horse to be returned to. So to minimise this happening ALWAYS declare health, behaviour or vice issues to any prospective buyer. That way there should be nothing unexpected on the horizon. In the end it makes a much more stressful transaction for all involved.

 

[stormox]

Its declareable by law. But I bought a horse once that never did it while breeder had him, a whole 4 years, But started the minute the I got him and put him in a stable to break him! I really believe the previous owner didnt know,so I cant blame him for not declaring it.

 

[AdorableAlice]

It is a declarable vice along with box walking and weaving. You have grounds to send the horse back. It has to be stated in the advert for the horse right from the off.

As above and the statement 'vice free' on an advert would cover it.

 

[el_Snowflakes]

It is a declarable vice along with box walking and weaving. You have grounds to send the horse back. It has to be stated in the advert for the horse right from the off.

Yes, but you would have to be able to prove that this is not a new behaviour - which would be difficult to do.

 

[cundlegreen]

Yes, but you would have to be able to prove that this is not a new behaviour - which would be difficult to do.

Ah, there's the rub....... I bought back a homebred who had become a bad windsucker due to being shut up without feed. The person who bought him off me had him 5 years without any sign of the vice, but, once learned, it can't be undone, although damage limitation through turnout with electric fencing worked. He would start the minute he went in the stable, as he obviously expected to be starved again poor boy. I was lucky to find a super home for him having given the prospective buyers chapter and verse about his habits. Obviously, his price was drastically reduced.

 

[oxo]

Its declareable by law. .

where would we find that law?

 

[oxo]

Ah, there's the rub....... I bought back a homebred who had become a bad windsucker due to being shut up without feed. The person who bought him off me had him 5 years without any sign of the vice, but, once learned, it can't be undone, although damage limitation through turnout with electric fencing worked. He would start the minute he went in the stable, as he obviously expected to be starved again poor boy. I was lucky to find a super home for him having given the prospective buyers chapter and verse about his habits. Obviously, his price was drastically reduced.

I think being left without food in a stable did this to the one we trialled as I since found out that the owners had been moved on from another stables because they had left if for ages without food. poor horse!
I never saw it doing it till we got it - but we had not been there at feed time in the stable - which also indicates it could have had ulcers... ( note to self - see horse being fed) So sad as it was a brilliant horse in many ways but neglect had left its marl on her.

 

[be positive]

where would we find that law?

Quite a well detailed guide to buying and selling below, cribbing is a vice so should always be declared by the seller, the buyer should always ask if the horse has any vices but even if that has been forgotten the buyer still has a strong case, most established cribbers will have damage to their front teeth and this would usually be picked up at a vetting but is not guaranteed to be.

http://www.leathesprior.co.uk/resources/news/115/

 

[oxo]

Quite a well detailed guide to buying and selling below, cribbing is a vice so should always be declared by the seller, the buyer should always ask if the horse has any vices but even if that has been forgotten the buyer still has a strong case, most established cribbers will have damage to their front teeth and this would usually be picked up at a vetting but is not guaranteed to be.

http://www.leathesprior.co.uk/resources/news/115/

thank you!

 

[Goldenstar]

where would we find that law?

Think you will find you can't .
It's one of those horsey myths .
If the horse is from a dealer the onus is on the dealer to tell you things that are relevant to the horses suitability for the purchasers .
From a private sale a horse may still be returned if unsuitable but more of the onus is on the purchaser to do their homework .
However you must always ask every question you can think of when viewing a horse in front of a witness if at all possible .
In brief a dealer must seek to sell you a horse that's suitable for example if the buyer is going to over horsed the dealer must say so .
Of course that's hard to get right everytime as the horse that's suitable in work daily in the dealers yard on correct rations may be completely different ridden three times a week and fed on too much sugary coarse mix so dealer will get it wrong sometimes through no fault of their own.

 

[Tnavas]

Both are considered a legal unsoundness, as a vice they have to be declared. If you have a copy of veterinary notes for horse owners it's written in there

 

[oxo]

hmm. we did in fact ask every question possible ( I thought!!) and we saw it many times b4 moving it to the stables, saw it fed in field but not in stable. big learning reminder! it possibly didn't show it with them but kicked off when it was stressed that it might get left without food again like it had in the past at a new stable? steep learning curve.

 

[honetpot]

I have a pony that I have had since two, I sent it away to be broken to a small yard close by and she came back that now she starts to weave if she is stressed. 98% of the time you would not know she did it, I had taken to large shows, stud etc and she has never shown any sign. I can tell by her body language when she is going to start so can prevent it.
The annoying thing is I paid a lot of money to have her broken, and she came back with a problem.

 

[oxo]

I have a pony that I have had since two, I sent it away to be broken to a small yard close by and she came back that now she starts to weave if she is stressed. 98% of the time you would not know she did it, I had taken to large shows, stud etc and she has never shown any sign. I can tell by her body language when she is going to start so can prevent it.
The annoying thing is I paid a lot of money to have her broken, and she came back with a problem.

I guess weaving can be caught / taught just like cribbing etc?

 

[smja]

As far as I'm aware, the seller does not have to offer that info by law.
If asked about vices and seller says horse doesn't have any, then it comes under sales of goods act (not as described). Also, a decent sales contract would include a statement about 'any known vices or behavioural issues' (and list them) to this end.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

It should have been picked up when vetted when the vet looked the teeth.

 

[oxo]

It should have been picked up when vetted when the vet looked the teeth.

Im not sure if when she was with the previous owner she did it constantly, but had learned to do it over time. With us ( on trial) she did it immediately and did settle down but still was windsucking ( not as heavily) after a month. The dentist said her teeth were really in good shape and not looking like the cribbed LOAds… so perhaps when stressed it came out ( like a new move to stables etc) By the time we had her that month she would occasionally fiddle with the hay net and do a little suck! .. anyway that one is history now but I was really just curious about the declaring issue… Would the previous owners have got information on a vetting form ? but would they have dislcosed that if they had? tricky!

 

[honetpot]

I guess weaving can be caught / taught just like cribbing etc?

Not caught, they stressed her by keeping her in,I found out later two doors from a stallion that banged all day, she also lost weight.
The only good thing was she was so relieved to come home, that she became a sweety and a lot kinder.

 

[stormox]

Do you have to actually declare vices on the advert? Or can you just mention them when potential buyers phone/view?

 

[Goldenstar]

As far as I'm aware, the seller does not have to offer that info by law.
If asked about vices and seller says horse doesn't have any, then it comes under sales of goods act (not as described). Also, a decent sales contract would include a statement about 'any known vices or behavioural issues' (and list them) to this end.

Personally I never ask has the horse any vices as this has too much wiggle room I ask has the horse ever reared , bucked ,cribbed damaged wood work or fences etc etc etc etc .

 

[Tnavas]

No, but the prospective buyer must be told, even if they don't ask. Weaving, Wind Sucking, Cribbing can all affect the horses health and soundness so must be declared.

Go to the link below which describes A SELLERS OBLIGATIONS.
http://www.chamberlains.com.au/equine-legal-services/misrepresenting-sale-horses/

 

[Luci07]

Must be declared. I bought one what turned out to be a cribber but it's hard to prove it's not the move which is bringing this vice out. Various things tried but I did find having constant access to forage at all times cut it right down. I actually put him onto good straw as a backup which helped.

 

[Crackerz]

A friend once sold a horse to another friend, it turned it to a windsucker literally overnight! It had never done it in the 5 years before, but the changed of yard seemed to trigger it