Cribbing and Windsucking - explanation please.

[TheBlackMoth]

A friend told me that a horse she wanted to buy failed it's vetting on cribbing. Now - I'm the one who knows nothing about horses - but over the years with my children at different stables I have known horses that did this and seemed to be ok. Is this a terrible problem?

 

[Bri]

Personally I think of it to be more of a bad habit. I think it's supposed to wear down teeth and it can cause colic - not that I've ever known any cribbers/windsuckers to have colic!

 

[Weezy]

I have never known a horse to fail unless there is obv BAD wear on its teeth?

I have had many suckers (wont have a cribber tho as they wear down their teeth and rock on their legs) and no, they are fine and have all been darn good horses!

 

[Vicky7041]

My friends horse cribs, but he wears a collar in the field and has never ever (touch wood) had any colic. Other than cribbing he is a "perfect horse" (theres always something isnt there??!!)

 

[Weezy]

Putting a collar on a horse that NEEDS to suck or crib is torture and makes me upset

Does your friend understand WHY the horse does it?

 

[bellgave]

We had a pony ages ago who cribbed, he was a very sucessful JA, it never affected his performance, but his front teeth were badly worn down, so probably would have affected him in later life.

 

[TheBlackMoth]

Apparently it grabbed hold of a metal water tray attached to it's stable wall, bit it and then wind sucked and made a noise.

Also her YO did not want her to buy it as she said other horses might copy the habit.

(I will learn about horses - I suppose I need to now the girls are going to have one each!)

 

[barkinghorse]

William "grabs" things when impatient, But doesn't chew or suck.
I don't think it's a major problem, but if windsucking, i would want to know why ie. does it have gastric ulcers.
Jo

 

[Weezy]

Sucking and Cribbing is not *catching*

 

[sorona]

A friend of mine bred a foal to a well nown local stallion and within 4 days it was cribbing, when she enquired about other offspring, she was told that a very large number of them cribbed also. The stallion retired soon after. I never knew that a horse would crib at such a young age, especially one that was out at grass in a field with his mum who was a good mum; and i didnt know that ic could be passed on as i thoiught it was either a reaction to acid in the stomach or boredom or stress, etc!

 

[Vicky7041]

I understand its upsetting, she has tried many different things, but he will stand and do it all day long, yet with a collar he doesnt anymore. Surely its better that he has stopped cribbing???

 

[Weezy]

Nope - if he is cribbing to relieve pain it is better he does it than doesnt!

 

[Tierra]

Ive heard people complain before about not wanting a cribbing / windsucking horse next to others in case they mimic behaviour.

*In my experience* the only thing Ive seen mimiced is weaving, but this is only down to my personal experience!

 

[VictoriaEDT]

cribbing does cause problems with the incisors by wearing them down, effectively prematurely ageing the horse. However, it is only really serious when the horse constantly cribs and exposes the pulp cavity in the incisors. Also, if he is cribbing to this extent and wearing away the incisors too much; when his upper and lower molars are in contact there may be a gap in his incisors because he will be wearing them down more than the molars. This then may restrict his ability to nip grass and feed (only extreme circumstances).

The supposed reason for a horse cribbing in the first place is the possibility of gastric ulcers and an acidic environment in the horses stomach. As cribbing produces saliva and saliva is alkaline, the theory is that the saliva neutralises the acids in the stomach.

Hope this all makes sense?!!

www.EquineDental.co.uk

 

[goeslikestink]

cribbing is a vice and will not pass a vetting same to as wind sucking
particals get into the gut and air ways and can cuase ulcers and colic along with bad teeth and resportory problems
other problems can also be associated with it
it can be managed to a degree

diet has to play an important part to help to keep weight on as yes it can be a habit
but also can effect there anti bodies in ther blood stream

 

[H's mum]

Neonatal foals produce lots of gastric acid and can have quite severe gastric irritation/ulcers - it's not unusual for these foals to crib/salivate and wind suck - I wouldn't just put it down to the sire...
Kate x

 

[horsegirl]

So why do they do it before the food (even a mint) can possibly have reached their stomach?

Mine is a cribber and he passed the vetting with no problems.

 

[Weezy]

Because acid is always active and therefore splashing up into the oesophagus!

I have never known a horse fail a vetting because of a vice, unless that vice is detrimental to them (ie a weaver wears its legs and can cause neck probs, a cribber could have very bad teeth - etc

 

[horsegirl]

but then surely he would do it constantly?

 

[Weezy]

Nope not necessarily - I had one that ONLY windscked before feeding - same time EVERY day - why? Because the expectation of food made his tummy *rumble* that tmmy rumbling is acid swishing around in the EMPTY stomach - this causes it to splash up - the rest of the time he was fine - it was simply the anticipation of food that set of his stomach secretions

 

[H's mum]

not necessarily if the cribbing has temperarily alleviated the sensations... momentarily it stops the horse from needing to windsuck/crib - plus when they do eat it starts the saliva/neutralising cycle... I'm taking it you've never had an ulcer or indigestion before?
Kate x

 

[horsegirl]

I'm not talking about momentarily stopping after cribbing. Weezy answered that mine cribs as soon as he has swallowed the mint (before it can possibly be even half way down) because the acid is always there splashing around, if that is the case then he would do it all the time, which he doesn't.

I know I'll get shot down for this (as usual!) but I have yet to see any evidence that cribbing/windsucking is nothing more than an addicition, I would compare it to a smoker having a cigarette after a meal.

 

[horsegirl]

Or he had been "conditioned" that windsucking brought his food in the same way that horses door kick etc because they have connected to the 2 things together in their minds.

 

[Weezy]

NO HG you do have a point!! Some horses, I believe have pain for so long in their life that it DOES become a kind of habit as they are almost waiting for the pain to hit - if that makes sense? Using a product such as Coligone ensures that they actually are not in pain, but it does not mean that the horse will instantly stop sucking - that will take time as they need to realise that pain is NOT there anymore - does that make sense?

 

[the watcher]

It is a habit, or addiction if you like, but one the horse has learned reduces discomfort in the same way you or I might burp if we have indigestion, if you learned that you could eat and never suffer by regularly burping, you would do it.

Occasionally it appears to be a habit a foal at foot can learn from the mare, however they are genetically linked, fed from the same source and usually destined for similar work so maybe even in that case there is a gastric cause.

I am sure it is worse when they are stressed, one of mine used to demonstrate his separation anxiety by fixing on to a post in field and grunting relentlessly until his companions returned. But then if I am stressed my stomach churns, so that is entirely understandable.

I would agree with anybody who has said to to put a collar on these horses is the cruellest treatment

 

[H's mum]

what absolute tosh - where have you heard/read that?
The cribbing/wind sucking prior to eating would be anticipation that it would hurt!
Kate x

 

[horsegirl]

It was a suggestion, animals learn to connect things by the responses they get. Have you never heard of Pavlov and his dogs? One of my cats, for example, started licking the house plants because my husband fed him to stop it which of course taught him that if he licked the plants he would get fed. I was suggesting that the horse, for whatever reason, has connected the 2 things in his mind and therefore windsucks as he thinks it will bring food. I don't believe it is pain related so it seems a sensible reason to me. If it hurts and the windsucking is prevented than surely the horse would display the pain in some other way?

 

[horsegirl]

much the same as people have a cigarette when stressed "to calm their nerves"?

 

[H's mum]

[ QUOTE ]
If it hurts and the windsucking is prevented than surely the horse would display the pain in some other way?

[/ QUOTE ]
It generally is - by weight loss... starry condition etc etc etc - The "pain" or "anxiety" will show one way or another -

Yes I am well aware of Pavlov's dogs salivating in anticipation of feeding - this is a "gut reaction" much the same (ie - the dogs have learned that when the bell tolls they are due to be fed and therefore their stomachs prepare for the feed) - However to claim that Windsucking/cribbing is like smoking I find really hard... A smoker smokes to get a rush of nicotine - so that is nothing like the need for a horse to crib/wind suck?
Kate x

 

[Weezy]

Nope deffo not doing it so as to BE fed - more the fact that horse sees person in feed room, hears them making up feeds, tummy acid starts preparing for food and bingo - horse sucks!