Cribbing collars - a cruelty that should be banned

fburton said:
It would be problemmatic if stopping the behaviour also exacerbated the digestive upset (acidity) that may be the reason for colic.
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My experience has been that crib biting leads to increased instances of colic, not the other way round. Ours can't crib bite, because we have electric tape running along the top of the fence posts, and he hasn't colicked in ages. When we went with a "leave him to it" approach, he used to colic regularly. He's also put weight on and filled out noticeably.
 
Cribbing is a very misunderstood habit in my experience.

1) there are no evidence based studies to show horses can learn to crib from others, Nine times out of ten this theory comes from people who have a cribber join the yard and then begin watching their horses like hawks and they notice a behaviour that was probably there all along just unnoticed
2) Why is everything an instant sign of ulcers? Some horses just crib for the sake of it.
3) If you do suspect ulcers, cribbing has been shown to increase saliva production therefore aiding in the buffering of stomach acid, this raises the question of is it a bad behaviour or just the horse reacting to a need in its life

Just my experience, my horse cribs and I don't feel the need to stop it. Nor do I think he has ulcers.
 
Being aware of the reasons behind crib biting and wind-sucking and treating / managing accordingly doesn’t necessarily put an end to it. (And, agree with HR, it carries a real risk of colic so it probably is best to try to stop it).

My experience shows that, after identifying ulcers (in horse living out 24/7 with no cereal), treating them with GG and using various supplements, wind-sucking can still continue. I agree that sometimes it’s ingrained. I was all for letting him do it if it helped him / made him happy (Horses at home so fence issues are down to me) but have to say, I agree with HR about dangers of wind-sucking and colic. After several colic incidents with bloating, finally took vet’s advice and stopped him wind-sucking. I chose to put electric tape everywhere and a wide drainpipe over stable door for when’s he’s in as I hate collars.

It’s all very well saying the cause can be treated or horses should be allowed to do it but, believe me, it isn’t always as simple as that and does cause colic.
 
Fiona36 said:
It’s all very well saying the cause can be treated or horses should be allowed to do it but, believe me, it isn’t always as simple as that and does cause colic.
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I think it is well established that there is an association between cribbing and colic - seeing one makes it more likely to see the other. But how do we know for sure that it causes colic rather than an underlying digestive disorder causing both the cribbing and the colic?
 
fburton said:
I think it is well established that there is an association between cribbing and colic - seeing one makes it more likely to see the other. But how do we know for sure that it causes colic rather than an underlying digestive disorder causing both the cribbing and the colic?
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I had one that cribbed most of his life, I never used a collar and he lived out 24/7 for around 15 years, it was before we knew of a link to ulcers so have no idea if he had them but he also never had colic or any signs of discomfort, he was a stressy horse who was more relaxed once he started cribbing now in hindsight I would scope/ treat for ulcers but at the time turning out seemed the best option.
I have know a few others that cribbed although they were only with me relatively short term, a year or two, one stopped when she came here and lived out more, from memory none of them had colic and they were all kept without collars so although there may be a link I would think it may well be the underlying issue causing colic or a combination rather than cribbing being the sole cause.
 
I'm going to go a bit against the grain here- I'm currently shopping for a collar for my mare.

I brought her a year ago knowing that she cribbed. I keep mine in 24/7 turnout with adlib hay so assumed she would stop when I got her home.
She didn't, and has been scoped and had a poo test rtf. No sign of ulcers (a healthy tummy apparently) and a clean poo test. Therefore no ulcers. She just does it.
In the meantime her teeth 're getting ruined and she would rather crib than graze. Think it's crueller to let her do it than put a collar on. She has had a previous collar and seemed quite happy and didn't object to it ring put on.
 
fburton said:
I think it is well established that there is an association between cribbing and colic - seeing one makes it more likely to see the other. But how do we know for sure that it causes colic rather than an underlying digestive disorder causing both the cribbing and the colic?
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I can only speak from my experience with our gelding, but all colic incidents followed worse than usual incidents of crib biting, where he had obviously been inhaling huge amounts of air. I don't think it's any coincidence that now he can't crib, he hasn't had a single instance of colic, whereas previously he had them fairly regularly. I'm not saying crib biting always leads to colic, but I'm certain that it can do.
 
VikkiL said:
I'm going to go a bit against the grain here- I'm currently shopping for a collar for my mare.

I brought her a year ago knowing that she cribbed. I keep mine in 24/7 turnout with adlib hay so assumed she would stop when I got her home.
She didn't, and has been scoped and had a poo test rtf. No sign of ulcers (a healthy tummy apparently) and a clean poo test. Therefore no ulcers. She just does it.
In the meantime her teeth 're getting ruined and she would rather crib than graze. Think it's crueller to let her do it than put a collar on. She has had a previous collar and seemed quite happy and didn't object to it ring put on.
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Cribbing is addictive, which is probably why she won't stop (ours continued even after ulcer treatment, a clear scope, and living out 24/7). If you want an alternative to a collar, I highly recommend electric tape along the top of the fence line. It's really worked for our gelding. He's put a fair bit of weight on and filled out since we did this too.
 
HashRouge said:
Cribbing is addictive, which is probably why she won't stop (ours continued even after ulcer treatment, a clear scope, and living out 24/7). If you want an alternative to a collar, I highly recommend electric tape along the top of the fence line. It's really worked for our gelding. He's put a fair bit of weight on and filled out since we did this too.
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I second this... my friends mare windsucked hanging and swinging off posts and this helped. We also chopped up a stiff brush-head and nailed them on to tops of posts - nothing to hold on to and the bristles put her off. We also screwed brush heads to top of stable door and around the sides.
 
The video linked earlier in the comments was an interesting listen and did address both the air swallowing and the colic incidences issue. I didn't realise that they had shown that they aren't actually ingesting air more moving a bubble of it up and down. - I did like the suggestion of adding some naughty colts to the turnout to play with any recovering horse too!
 
ester said:
The video linked earlier in the comments was an interesting listen and did address both the air swallowing and the colic incidences issue. I didn't realise that they had shown that they aren't actually ingesting air more moving a bubble of it up and down!
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I actually think they do swallow air- at least some of it. The two serious cribbers I have had have both farted more than most horses especially during the first 10 minutes of being ridden.
 
stormox said:
I actually think they do swallow air- at least some of it. The two serious cribbers I have had have both farted more than most horses especially during the first 10 minutes of being ridden.
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Another explanation could be that air isn't swallowed (which is what the study showed) but gut acidity encourages gas production by bacterial fermentation.
 
One horse at my yard would rather crib all day than graze. He occasionally has a collar on, never been scoped, the owner is very poor. I know it’s horrible of me, but she ought not to have one horse, let alone two. :(
 
I am not a fan of cribbing collars but having just seen a lovely mare at our yard put to sleep due to her cribbing/windsucking causing colic, sometimes I wonder if they may be a neccesary evil in some cases. I used to ride a pony that would crib on barbed wire, how he never cut his mouth i do not know
 
fburton said:
I think it is well established that there is an association between cribbing and colic - seeing one makes it more likely to see the other. But how do we know for sure that it causes colic rather than an underlying digestive disorder causing both the cribbing and the colic?
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I used to subscribe to this view, even after vets told me otherwise. I used to think it was a chicken and egg situation. I agree that digestive discomfort can cause windsucking but, once that’s solved, many horses are in the habit and continue. This can then cause different issues with bloating.

I know there’s an established view that they don’t actually swallow any air but I’ve changed my opinion after seeing my horse physically bloat to huge proportions on two separate occasions after windsucking (had to stay in- where he can windsuck- for a few hours due to waiting for farrier on one occasion and having sedation for lung scope on other). Both occasions resulted in colic and vet calls.

I now make sure he can’t windsuck. (By using electric tape rather than a collar).
 
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That's very interesting, Fiona36. I wish the vets involved in treating your horse's colic had written a letter or submitted a case report to the Veterinary Record alerting other vets to the possibility of air swallowing - maybe get the question reopened?
 
fburton said:
That's very interesting, Fiona36. I wish the vets involved in treating your horse's colic had written a letter or submitted a case report to the Veterinary Record alerting other vets to the possibility of air swallowing - maybe get the question reopened?
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I don’t think the question has ever been closed. Every vet I have ever spoken to has exaplained that there’s are two views on this. Im certain that my horse isn’t a one-off in experiencing bloating after windsucking; the posts above show this.

I think any good vet will accept that we can’t be completely sure one way or another but it’s prudent to try to stop the behaviour.
 
Fiona36 said:
I think any good vet will accept that we can’t be completely sure one way or another but it’s prudent to try to stop the behaviour.
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Maybe not under all circumstances, if there are horses for whom windsucking provides comfort and some amelioration of gut acidity without bloating and associated risk of colic.
 
Shilasdair said:
Hi all
I need a rant regarding the use of cribbing collars.
I did think that horse owners had become more enlightened as to the causes of crib biting in horse, and that these evil collars had been consigned to the bin, as remnants of a more ignorant time.
Unfortunately there has been a proliferation of them at my yard, from people who should know enough to know better. :(

I know that electric collars for dogs are banned/in the process of being so, so why are crib collars not?

For anyone who uses one - give yourself a slap, go and research the causes of crib biting in horses, review your management accordingly, and burn the collar.

And apologise to your poor horse for making him/her suffer through your ignorance.

Your thoughts?
S :(
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Cribbing collars are actually a great tool to use. When they lower their head it loosens, when they crib in puts pressure on their throat and they simply quit. My gelding has been SOOO much nicer only after 3 days of using it. His belly is no longer bloated either! He now has no risk of colicing, and my 4 year old mare doesn’t have a bad influence anymore. I’ve seen her licking the gate trying to pretend to do whatever he has been doing! You say it’s abuse but won’t say why it is abuse..? I’ve looked it up and can’t find anything other than the fact it can leave them sore where the leather rubs, which is why you should always get a padded one. The leather breaks away in case it gets caught etc. I’d rather my horse not colic and die and not influence my 4y/o. Thanks though..!
 
charterline said:
I had one a few years ago that well windsucked more than cribbed. Was turned out24/7, with company. Didn’t have ulcers. No idea why she did it. Would prefer to stand In the field and crib on the fencing rather than eating the grass, she got very thin. Put a collar on and it helped.
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Yep, I had a mare that would windsuck and weave even when in the field. Not all the time, but if she was stressed about something. I remember once going to fetch her in and she was drenched with sweat under her rug.
 
shilohissosilly said:
Cribbing collars are actually a great tool to use. When they lower their head it loosens, when they crib in puts pressure on their throat and they simply quit. My gelding has been SOOO much nicer only after 3 days of using it. His belly is no longer bloated either! He now has no risk of colicing, and my 4 year old mare doesn’t have a bad influence anymore. I’ve seen her licking the gate trying to pretend to do whatever he has been doing! You say it’s abuse but won’t say why it is abuse..? I’ve looked it up and can’t find anything other than the fact it can leave them sore where the leather rubs, which is why you should always get a padded one. The leather breaks away in case it gets caught etc. I’d rather my horse not colic and die and not influence my 4y/o. Thanks though..!
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You’re replying to a sadly deceased and much missed person so she won’t reply, on a thread that is 7years old.

If you have a point you wish to engage in discussion about it would be better to start a new thread.
 
shilohissosilly said:
Cribbing collars are actually a great tool to use. When they lower their head it loosens, when they crib in puts pressure on their throat and they simply quit. My gelding has been SOOO much nicer only after 3 days of using it. His belly is no longer bloated either! He now has no risk of colicing, and my 4 year old mare doesn’t have a bad influence anymore. I’ve seen her licking the gate trying to pretend to do whatever he has been doing! You say it’s abuse but won’t say why it is abuse..? I’ve looked it up and can’t find anything other than the fact it can leave them sore where the leather rubs, which is why you should always get a padded one. The leather breaks away in case it gets caught etc. I’d rather my horse not colic and die and not influence my 4y/o. Thanks though..!
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As Esther said but also there is zero scientific evidence that horses learn any stereotypic behaviour from copying other horses. To the point where studies have tried to replicate this with no success.

Stopping the behaviour doesn’t mean the horse is less stressed. In fact studies show that horses who wear cribbing collars frequently experience higher levels of stress (measured by physiological markers) than those don’t wear them to prevent the behaviour - hence the push to manage the horse’s environment and stress triggers rather than prevent them from performing a response they have to cope with stress.
 
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shilohissosilly said:
I’ve seen her licking the gate trying to pretend to do whatever he has been doing!
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Hi, there's no evidence to support the idea that horses copy this behaviour. But there is plenty of research to show why horses lick minerals (wood and metal included). Hope that helps.

As others have said across this old thread, preventing the horse from doing the behaviour does not solve the problem for the horse. In most cases, it simply makes your life easier and theirs harder.
 
shilohissosilly said:
Cribbing collars are actually a great tool to use. When they lower their head it loosens, when they crib in puts pressure on their throat and they simply quit. My gelding has been SOOO much nicer only after 3 days of using it. His belly is no longer bloated either! He now has no risk of colicing, and my 4 year old mare doesn’t have a bad influence anymore. I’ve seen her licking the gate trying to pretend to do whatever he has been doing! You say it’s abuse but won’t say why it is abuse..? I’ve looked it up and can’t find anything other than the fact it can leave them sore where the leather rubs, which is why you should always get a padded one. The leather breaks away in case it gets caught etc. I’d rather my horse not colic and die and not influence my 4y/o. Thanks though..!
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Hmm ... that name is an interesting choice! 😉
 
My horse cribs in a fashion (she uses her chin rather than her teeth, possibly adapted because of stuff like Cribbox). She's an old polo pony imported from Argentina so has no doubt had a fairly stressful life. It's mostly food related, eg, she will crib after I've given her a treat or after her food, like an after dinner fag. She's made it to 22 without issue and I'm not going to stop her doing what keeps her content.
 
My retired elderly mate has cribbed all her life , after stressful early years with no turn out. It was actually the only reason we could afford her. She has been treated for ulcers and has as much turn out as she wants.
Recently we put new wooden gates on the field. She was destroying the new gate by cribbing, so my husband bought a metal strip to go on the gate to stop her eating it. Then we noticed that she looked really sad , so he has now strapped a wooden block on top of the metal strip so that she can still crib 🤣🤣
 
ester said:
You’re replying to a sadly deceased and much missed person so she won’t reply, on a thread that is 7years old.

If you have a point you wish to engage in discussion about it would be better to start a new thread.
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Oh, I didn't know about Shilasdair :(

shilohissosilly said:
... I’ve seen her licking the gate trying to pretend to do whatever he has been doing!
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I doubt your mare is pretending or copying.
 
ester said:
You’re replying to a sadly deceased and much missed person so she won’t reply, on a thread that is 7years old.

If you have a point you wish to engage in discussion about it would be better to start a new thread.
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It really jolted me seeing it come up and its taken till now for me to be able to open it.

The person who created this thread was absolutely 100% right about cribbing collars.
 
equinerebel said:
Hi, there's no evidence to support the idea that horses copy this behaviour. But there is plenty of research to show why horses lick minerals (wood and metal included). Hope that helps.

As others have said across this old thread, preventing the horse from doing the behaviour does not solve the problem for the horse. In most cases, it simply makes your life easier and theirs harder.
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licking and chewing wood can be associated with ulcers, which are associated with cribbin.
 
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