Cribbing ; how to stop and do collars work ?

[maisiemoo]

My friends 14 year old TB cribs , are windsucking and cribbing the same ? . She has bought a collar which she was scared of putting on him for fear of him getting narky if he could'nt do his thing, i encouraged her to put it on today and after 10 mins he had stopped and looked more relaxed .
Is it safe to leave the collar on overnight in the stable and during the day in the field ?

 

[Shilasdair]

My friends 14 year old TB cribs , are windsucking and cribbing the same ? . She has bought a collar which she was scared of putting on him for fear of him getting narky if he could'nt do his thing, i encouraged her to put it on today and after 10 mins he had stopped and looked more relaxed .
Is it safe to leave the collar on overnight in the stable and during the day in the field ?

It's much kinder to him just to let him crib/windsuck, poor boy.
S

 

[maisiemoo]

Oh i can see that he needs to do it but have heard they can get splinters stuck in there windpipe , and it can damage there teeth , hard to know whats best ,

 

[kirstyl]

My new horse crib bites - didnt know this when I bought him! Have decided to let him get on with it. Try to have a strict routine with him which we stick to. It is only food related with him ,he doesnt seem to crib when relaxed with hay or in field. Not ideal, but his good points far outweigh the bad!

 

[competitiondiva]

Unless things have changed drastically since I owned my cribber! There is no stopping it, no cure! I have heard more recently that it is linked to gastric ulcers, so in theory if you can address this then you may be able to reduce the amount the horse cribs/windsucks? Others on here will know more about that am sure.....

With regard to what is what, I was always told that if the horse has to hold onto something with the teeth in order to arch the neck and draw in air then they are a crib biter, those who can suck in air without holding onto anything with their teeth are windsuckers. I'm sure there will be people out there who disagree with that but that was what I was always told!! My mare wore a collar, for one reason, if you let them do it too much there can be an increased risk of colic due to the air drawn into them. I used a miracle collar and it did work in stopping most of the air intake, just ensure it is fastened correctly, and wearing the collar never had any affect on her temperament.

 

[LEC]

Have you tried an antacid? Feedmark does a very good one that works for 6 hours - settlex. Its been proven that many cribbers and windsuckers have ulcers.

 

[Shilasdair]

Oh i can see that he needs to do it but have heard they can get splinters stuck in there windpipe , and it can damage there teeth , hard to know whats best ,

I doubt very much if he'll get splinters in his windpipe, although cribbing does wear down the teeth over time.
If possible, can you let him crib on something softish (to protect his teeth), for example a rubber covered post, rather than physically preventing him.
It might be worth changing his management - give him as much high fibre food/forage as often as possible, keep him out so he can graze, feed probiotics to help his digestion, and consider having him scoped for ulcers.
S

 

[Fii]

I have to agree with shils here, i can't abide these collars, could she cover any wood with rubber or something.
My friend had a mare that cribbed and windsucked, but only after having a bucket. Her vet likened it to someone who smoked, and by trieing to stop it by using a collar, she would only be causing her more stress.

 

[maisiemoo]

Thanks guys . interesting points made . will get her to get him checked for ulcers , unfortunatly all there fencing is wood post and rail and his stable is wood , he does it all day will even leave his feed if fed in the middle of the field to walk over to the fence between mouthfuls to have a chew, he is much loved and my friend will do whatever to make sure he is happy .

 

[Puppy]

Please be careful Those collars can cause colic

 

[maisiemoo]

Oh , collar will be hung on a peg in tackroom tomorrow , thanks .

 

[competitiondiva]

Please be careful Those collars can cause colic

How does a collar cause colic???????

 

[Sparkles]

Hmm sorry to throw a spanner in the works....but if it's a chronic cribber [my horse is btw] then I'd swear by a collar personally. Best a non cribbing horse than a yard full of copy cats, ruined woodwork/teeth/etc.....plus I can't stand seeing or hearing a cribbing horse on the yard!

Just me though! Bustie isn't affected with the collar on...in fact he's more chilled when not being able to crib than when he's been cribbing tbh.

 

[smac]

sorry, disagree completely. Never before have I seen a horse stressed by wearing a cribbing collar. and I have to say if a collar caused colic, it was fitted wrong.

We have 2 cribbers on yard, a polo pony 19yrs old, raced before, always cribbed for as long as anyone can remember. Other is a 5yrold. We bought him at 1yr, he lived in a field with 1 other yearling, who we still own and doesnt crib). He didint crib when we got him, but he taught himself in field as he grew up. (go figure)

We have previously lost a horse through colic, caused by cribbing. Vet said best thing was to prevent, both wear "Miracle Collars" (do buy the fluffy covers as well) They eat out of buckets on floor, the have haynets and the polo pony wears his in field as he is turned out with others, and near the other foals. Neither ever appear stressed. Neither have coliced and both perform well.

We have put eletric fence tape around a box before to stop them ruining the new stables. If cribox doent work, chilli paste works a treat.

Alot of people reckon one horse will copy another, I don't know, i don't risk it with the foals. but the two wear the collars to prevent colic and stop them ruining teeth. And as above, hate the noise!

 

[Box_Of_Frogs]

As others have said, please please please don't let your friend use the collar. It doesn't matter what name you give a particular stereotypical behaviour that a horse is exhibiting, it's always the result of the same thing: poor management. Company, as much turnout as possible, regular routine and ad lib hay/lage/forage when stabled will transform a horse. The stereotypical behaviours release endorphins in the horse's brain that dull the stress of being in an unnatural environment. If you take even that away from the horse you will cause even deeper distress and risk even more problems. Gastric ulcers are very common in stereotypies and so is colic. A stereotypie horse may always display low levels of the unwanted behaviour, even if changed to a much more horse friendly regime as it remembers the nice feeling that the endorphins bring.

 

[Cazza525]

our old mare cribs and has done ever since i bought her as a weanling,24 years ago. She used to wear a collar,but don't bother anymore. She has bred 6 foals,5 of which didn't crib,one of them(incidently,the only colt,the rest were fillies) started cribbing as a 2 year old in field.

She has always been fit and well apart from a mild dose of colic last january which may or may not be related.

In all those years she's not passed on the habit to any of our other horses,apart her son,who didn't start cribbing till way past weaning and was not with her at the time.

I read an interesting article once,that it can be due to early weaning and stress in the more highly strung animal,hence why a hell of a lot of tb's crib i spose.

Our particular mare was my old show pony (13.2hh) and took me to HOYS,so it never once affected her performance.

We have tried everything over the years,collars,cribbox,creosote,you name it,we tried it. But gave up a long time ago. She is a happier pony now,we have put her own fence post in field for her personal use,and she stands there quite happily,cribbing away. Dear little flower really.

 

[Echo Bravo]

I had a mare that started cribbing when seperated from her mum at weaning. My mistake was letting YO keep her stabled 24/7, but I didn't have much say,while I was there and had to put a collar on again 24/7When got own property only put it on her when stabled. I must admit I did start to watch her and she really only did it a feed-time, so threw collar away, she did wear her front teeth down over the years and put electric fencing round the paddocks.She cribbed on the posts but very rarely got colic

 

[AmyMay]

Best a non cribbing horse than a yard full of copy cats

But they don't copy.......

 

[CBAnglo]

It is so hard to decide what to do, I think each horse reacts differently. Some do it after meal times, and once they have done it go back to eating their hay etc. Others will stand there all day long and crib/windsuck rather than eat.

Opinions are split as to whether horses copy etc I personally believe that highly strung horses kept in the same environment will display some sort of vice. I guess this is why it is common amongst race horses.

There is no "cure". Some will even learn to do it through a collar or develop a taste for cribox or whatever combination you paint on wood. I suppose the only thing you can do is try to remove exacerbating factors, such as trying to maximise turnout, ensure there is a constant supply to forage, electric fencing (although some will crib on other horses) and feeding high fibre low starch diets. It is often linked to ulcers so I suppose you could manage your horse in the same way.

Some yards wont take a cribber/windsucker or if they do they will insist that the horse wear a collar as other liveries might get upset. I havent personally heard of a collar inducing colic, however they do cause terrible poll tension, especially if the horse tries to crib through it.

 

[superpony]

But they don't copy.......

Agree on this.

And i'd strongly recommend wearing a collar. My friend very nearly lost her horse through colic a number of times due to him not having a collar on. She bought him a Miracle Collar (about £50 but well worth it) and he has never coliced since.

Also none of the horses at the yard copied his cribing.. or my TB's weaving...

 

[the watcher]

I have had a cribber/windsucker I the past and in my view it is kinder to prevent the problems where possible that simply preventing the horse getting the relief it wants.

A low cereal high fibre diet will help, Rennies or Coligone are also helpful and giving the horse a safe cribbing post in the paddock (electrify everything else) is also kind.

Yes, a horse will appear calm in some cases when you put on a collar, they also appear calm when you twitch them but you wouldn't regard that as a permanent solution!

 

[deicinmerlyn]

As others have said, please please please don't let your friend use the collar. It doesn't matter what name you give a particular stereotypical behaviour that a horse is exhibiting, it's always the result of the same thing: poor management. Company, as much turnout as possible, regular routine and ad lib hay/lage/forage when stabled will transform a horse. The stereotypical behaviours release endorphins in the horse's brain that dull the stress of being in an unnatural environment. If you take even that away from the horse you will cause even deeper distress and risk even more problems. Gastric ulcers are very common in stereotypies and so is colic. A stereotypie horse may always display low levels of the unwanted behaviour, even if changed to a much more horse friendly regime as it remembers the nice feeling that the endorphins bring.

Echo above totally.
In addition
Turn out, treating ulcers, forage diet, no starch/cereals, access to forage 24/7

 

[Serephin]

My last horse was a chronic cribber/windsucker (he did both) - I put a strip of rubber matting on top of his door so he wouldn't damage his teeth. Tried the collar at the request of the YO, but not matter how tight it was done up he could crib with it on, so threw it away in the end. He would do it when turned out 24/7 - I think he was addicted to the feeling he got from it. Didn't bother me really, what he did in his own time was his own business, although he would sometimes get a freestyle windsuck in when I was riding!

 

[Kenzo]

Considering the horse is a 14 yr old TB and quite possibly where the horse was kept/managed …typical training yard syndrome!) prior to your friend buying him as it could be something the horse has done for a very long time, in which case old habits die hard.

Your friend has two choices, use a collar to help prevent colic more frequent attacks or just let him get on with it but try to understand the horses behaviour and alter his environment to see if you can reduce how often he feels the need to do it.

Horses that are used to a strict routine often develop this problem initially, therefore some people will often think that routine clockwork management is best, its actually the cause, but once caused can’t be fixed, therefore it’s a vicious circle.

 

[littlemisslauren]

QR
I read a paper recently (sorry I cant remember where I found it!!) that pointed out using preventative methods such as cribbing collars to stop horses crib biting caused greater stress levels in the horse. Considering stable vices occur as a result of distress in the horse due to poor management or trauma, I dont see the logic behind making the animal more distressed by putting a collar on it?? IMO People use collars for appearance purposes mainly, no one wants to be the owner with the naughty horse on the yard... rather than adressing the original problem.

By the way, my mare was a chronic cribber, I covered all her cribbing spots with rubber and turned her out 24 - 7 in summer (she was previously in at night) and the cribbing almost stopped. When she was stabled and felt the need to crib she did so on a rubber surface so caused no damage.

 

[MagicMelon]

I think the collars are horrid things. I had a cribber (she grabbed onto a surface with her front teeth and gulped air), she was destroying our fences posts so I tried the Miracle collar (meant to be humane) but to be honest, you had to have it really tight before it worked and she looked so miserable in it, after 5 minutes I took it off never to use again. Horrid things. Nothing helped mine, she continued to do it no matter what she was fed (ie. lots of forage and various anti-cribbing type supplements). Obviously keeping them turned out 24/7 helps though.

 

[teresagarsden]

I used to have a cribber however now he has been crib free for over a year.
I boarded his stable from top to bottom so no edges to crib on, the only place he could was on his door so this is covered with lots of cribox ( only a problem if you forget its there, it gets on you / rugs / horses neck ect, put baby oil on horses neck)
I must admit i did purchase a collar but its still in the bag un/opened.
After sorting his stable out i moved on to his diet he has redi grass / sugarbeet / fibre nuts and as much hay as he can eat.
He gets fed twice a day and afer eating he has a polo and a rennie tablet ( advised by vet), this helps to stop any acid build up, which can cause cribbing.
I then set to put a single strand of electric tape all round the field attached to the top of each post as this is the only place he could crib outside. He goes out everyday for as long as possible.
I now have a happy healthy horse that has broken the cycle and therefore no longer feels the need to crib, As athe previous poster said its like smoking break the habbit and its easier to control.
Part of his problem was also stree related so routine and calm handling also help.
If you want any further details please feel free to PM
Good luck Teresa.

 

[TequilaMist]

QR
I read a paper recently (sorry I cant remember where I found it!!) that pointed out using preventative methods such as cribbing collars to stop horses crib biting caused greater stress levels in the horse. Considering stable vices occur as a result of distress in the horse due to poor management or trauma, I dont see the logic behind making the animal more distressed by putting a collar on it?? IMO People use collars for appearance purposes mainly, no one wants to be the owner with the naughty horse on the yard... rather than adressing the original problem.

By the way, my mare was a chronic cribber, I covered all her cribbing spots with rubber and turned her out 24 - 7 in summer (she was previously in at night) and the cribbing almost stopped. When she was stabled and felt the need to crib she did so on a rubber surface so caused no damage.

Thank you thank you!Thought I was dreaming that as no one else seemed to have seen it..
I remember reading an article(don't know if same one)that said that if you stop horse doing stereotypies behaviour such as cribbing/windsucking stress levels increased.Think it checked by something in the blood.Certain levels of ?? increased if behaviour forced to stop.Sorry sound like garbled rubbish but it was a while ago.

 

[Luci07]

As others have said, please please please don't let your friend use the collar. It doesn't matter what name you give a particular stereotypical behaviour that a horse is exhibiting, it's always the result of the same thing: poor management. Company, as much turnout as possible, regular routine and ad lib hay/lage/forage when stabled will transform a horse. The stereotypical behaviours release endorphins in the horse's brain that dull the stress of being in an unnatural environment. If you take even that away from the horse you will cause even deeper distress and risk even more problems. Gastric ulcers are very common in stereotypies and so is colic. A stereotypie horse may always display low levels of the unwanted behaviour, even if changed to a much more horse friendly regime as it remembers the nice feeling that the endorphins bring.

Disagree 100%.. There is absolutley no one who can definitively say what causes cribbing and it is not just down to "poor management". Neither is anyone able to say that if you feed them antiacids/more forage etc etc it will cure it. It does not. I have first hand, seen that there are some horses who have a tendency towards it (4 horses by Primitive Rising) who all did it. All in professionial yards, all very well cared for, 2 ended up with surgical colic. I have had a cribber and researched/questioned extensively and was never able to get a straight response. I certainly managed to reduce mine by ensuing a constant stream of hay over the door but I tried changing feeds to see if it was ulcers, upped work, reduced work, antiacids, never left alone - I could only manage it not stop it I never liked the idea of miracle collars because I do agree that you are just fixing the end result without understanding the cause, but after seeing 2 (windsuckers) horses carted off for surgical colic I did change my mind and mine was put in one which stopped him immediately. There is also no evidence that this is a learned behaviour either but not many YO's are going to accept that. I ended up turning mine out as much as possible as he simply couldnt crib in the field but there is no way I would leave a horse windsucking or cribbing constantly. Mine didn't have ulcers and was actually a very chilled out horse so didn't fit the profile either!

 

[jaypeebee]

I have a newish horse who is a cribber windsucker. When she arrived a few months ago she was really bad but I keep her outside all the time rather than at her previous home where she was stabled. I was quite surprised at how bad she was when she came but outside with hay available to her at all times seems to have helped her a little. I am giving her antacids and planning to move her into a large square field so she is rarely next to posts or rails. At no time would I consider ever putting a collar on her, that is not the way to deal with this problem I dont believe. She is only young so I have confidence that she will grow out of it especially since I spoke to her breeder recently who said that she never did it before and it was only when she turned 3 years old and moved to a situation where she was living inside 24/7 that she started doing it. She is 4 now so there is hope for her. What was interesting to me was seeing the reaction of other horses in her field when she first came and windsucked. 2 other youngsters started to copy her and I saw them on and off for a day trying to do what she was doing. They didnt do it again though and the boss mare in that field started pushing her away from the fence after a few days. I think she was getting annoyed by the noise but now she is used to it.