Cripes!!! The cost of formulating your own balancer :O

Spyda

Spyda

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Having spent £199.00 having my forage/grass analysed and a balanced feed plan formulated I am simply shocked at how much it will cost to buy in the individual elements needed to make up a balancer that would last a couple of months. I used Progressive Earth via eBay to tally the total and the cost would be well in excess of £125.00 :eek:

Jeepers, wish I'd saved the £199.00 now! I can't afford to pay that much for x11 bags of different elements. Cheaper to stick with the Spillers Standard Balancer me thinks!!

How do others manage???
 
Blooming Nora ! Think I'll stick to the old fashioned way, as long as they have bright eyes, shiny coat and good feet, they're ok.

Reading the posts on here I thought I'd try the Fast Fibre, Pro feet, magnesium diet and after a summer on it, both horses have had one problem after another. Its back to Baileys Lo Cal for them and hopefully they'll return to their former condition.
Its good to try different approaches though, as long as it doesn't cost a fortune. For me its been more than £199 to treat repeated thrush and foot abscesses this summer, for the first time ever.
 
The set up cost is a bit eye watering but it evens out over the year. Most mineral mixes I do work out at about £20 per month so cheaper than most off the shelf balancers!

I'm not sure how you managed to spend so much on the analysis though??
 
I go with the advice given above, shiney eyes and coat and good feet are the best indicators. However, I am not a fan of all this faffing around with balancers and different supplements, unless the horse needs it medically. I personally think we do it to make ourelves feel better about ourselves, not our horses. All my two get (one is a 19 year old cob in light work and the other is a wb/tb who events and does BD) is bog standard mix from our feed merchant, plus some speedi beet if needed. My cob does get glucosamine as he is a bit creaky, but that is all. They are both happy and healthy.

I feed my two for £13.00 a month - thats the cost of two sacks of mix.
 
and how on earth did we manage in my youth when balancers hadnt been heard of? We fed straights and hacked everywhere, to hunt meets,pony club rallies. everything was fit as fiddles and did a lot more work then a lot of horses do nowadays.
 
Spyda said:
Having spent £199.00 having my forage/grass analysed and a balanced feed plan formulated I am simply shocked at how much it will cost to buy in the individual elements needed to make up a balancer that would last a couple of months. I used Progressive Earth via eBay to tally the total and the cost would be well in excess of £125.00 :eek:

Jeepers, wish I'd saved the £199.00 now! I can't afford to pay that much for x11 bags of different elements. Cheaper to stick with the Spillers Standard Balancer me thinks!!

How do others manage???
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big problem now is are they going to eat the minerals. Copper and zinc are not very palatable.
 
Horsesforever1 said:
and how on earth did we manage in my youth when balancers hadnt been heard of? We fed straights and hacked everywhere, to hunt meets,pony club rallies. everything was fit as fiddles and did a lot more work then a lot of horses do nowadays.
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You answered your own question -in your youth horses weren't fed heavily molassed mixes and they actually worked for a living rather than stuffed their faces all day ;)
 
Oberon said:
How on earth did it cost £199 to have an analysis?

Mine cost £47 :confused:
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I paid £199.00 at start of 2012. Price have gone up since!
To have what I had done would now cost....


Full Mineral Analysis - Grass £55.80

Full Mineral Analysis - Hay £55.80

Nutritional Analysis - Hay £27.60

Nutritional Analysis - Grass £27.60

Bespoke feeding plan using results £72.00

So now it would cost £238.80.

:o

Oberon said:
You answered your own question -in your youth horses weren't fed heavily molassed mixes and they actually worked for a living rather than stuffed their faces all day ;)
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To be fair, whilst I'd agree wholeheartedly that horses/ponies were ridden more and were generally fitter back in the day (1970's, 1980's), I'd disagree about the level of molassed feed fed then. I think LESS molassed feed is available and/or fed these days. Owners and feed manufacturers are more aware of the molasses content in feeds. Most advertise 'Molasses free' when then can, as an incentive to buy. Back in the late 70's and early 80's when course mixes came out I remember them being fairly basic in composition - flaked barley, flaked maize, (rolled oats), cooked peas, locust beans and generic cubes all combined with loose molassed meal. People also fed molassed sugar beet in winter. Unmolassed beet wasn't heard of! Mollichaff came onto the market around then, too. Nah, I think we fed more molassed feeds back in the day, not less.
 
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paddy555 said:
big problem now is are they going to eat the minerals. Copper and zinc are not very palatable.
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I'm already feeding copper and magnesium and haven't had a problem with mine eating them, even when the grass has been good and her appetite hasn't been great for hard feed. I guess that's some consolation. I know I'd be mega cheesed off if she refused to eat up!!
 
I disagree with that, feeds these days are dreadful and full of sugar and starch and most people don't know a good weight horse when they see one and if they do they think it's thin! Most are overweight being piled full of pocessed feed. Not good.

Equimins advance complete I'm finding is very good.
 
Nope, I'd still disagree!!! :D

I'm at a very large DIY livery yard and don't see 'horrendous' feeds being fed - and that's right across the board from the pet horses through to the competition ones and across all sorts of owners.

Most of the horses are fed Hi-Fi and hay or that sort of basic, cheap! diet. Others are fed lo-cal balancers and soaked hay. The ones that are hard to keep condition on might be fed conditioning cubes and Alfa A, plus Speedi-beet and ad-lib hay/haylage. Quite a few seem to like to use Allen & Page's Fast Fibre and hay. The YO's feed their hunters oats, sugar beet and pony cubes -so a fairly old fashioned diet. But I really don't see anyone stuffing their horses full of high sugar, high energy hard feeds. Especially these days when every penny counts. Who's feeding these high sugar feeds? Personally, I dont know anyone who is. That said, there are a few rather too plump horses knocking about these days - but this is more commonly due to insufficient exercise rather than excess energy from hard feed. Most of the horses carrying exess weight that I know of aren't fed anything except hay in winter and grass in summer - they simply don't get enough exercise and/or their access to grass/forage rationed sufficiently.
 
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Fast fibre is a very good feed, that with equimins with few other supplements for joints etc is all mine get.
I think it's the basic feeds, mixes are very high starch and cereal isn't easily digested by the horse. Feeds like happy hoof seem very popular and tbh I wouldn't feed it to anybody. Oh and mollichaff extra that seems quite popular and omg that to me is bad feet in a bag. And tbh most of the horses are overweight anyway and don't need what they get.
 
I just got the hay analysed as it comes from either side of the grazing field and just did minerals not nutritional so it cost about £100 in set up.

Some of the minerals you buy will last for a long long time, for me selenium, lysine get replaced very infrequently. In fact I gave some selenium away as I had had it 18 months and was worried it might go off.

Some you can buy more cheaply from Equimins from their straights price list depending on what has been recommended. (magox, lysine, phosphorous, selenium, calcium carbonate) Some people use calmag instead of magox and there are opinions on both sides on whether calmag does as good a job.

The ones I spend most on are Zinc and Copper and afaik forageplus and progressive earth are the only providers of the bioplex versions. Last time I looked forageplus was cheaper but had higher postage unless you order alot.

Plus with a base carrier of bran and unmolassed sugarbeet, my feed bill is very low so that offsets it.
 
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Spyda said:
Having spent £199.00 having my forage/grass analysed and a balanced feed plan formulated I am simply shocked at how much it will cost to buy in the individual elements needed to make up a balancer that would last a couple of months. I used Progressive Earth via eBay to tally the total and the cost would be well in excess of £125.00 :eek:

Jeepers, wish I'd saved the £199.00 now! I can't afford to pay that much for x11 bags of different elements. Cheaper to stick with the Spillers Standard Balancer me thinks!!

How do others manage???
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For exactly that reason I feed NAF haylage balancer which means I don't have to buy separate yeast as it is in it already. As a bonus it also has acidity regulators and pro-biotics. I add more magnesium (cheap as chips calmag from Farm Supplies shop) and I add much more copper because my land and my water supply is high in iron and manganese (analysis provided free by local authority because of spring water supply).

My horses are doing really well on that combination. Separate minerals and yeast would cost me masses more and be a pain in the neck to order, store and mix.
 
Just choose a standard balancer with the minerals you need and no more than 100% recommended amounts of the ones you don't. At that level they'll pee or poo out the excess.

As said before being fat and under exercised is likely to be far more a problem to modern horses than the particular type of carbohydrate feed they are given. We certainly fed molasses feed and beet back in the 80s. But none of this horse's going from paddock/stable to school and back. We took them out for several hours and hacked everywhere.

Paula
 
Spyda said:
I paid £199.00 at start of 2012. Price have gone up since!
To have what I had done would now cost....


Full Mineral Analysis - Grass £55.80

Full Mineral Analysis - Hay £55.80

Nutritional Analysis - Hay £27.60

Nutritional Analysis - Grass £27.60

Bespoke feeding plan using results £72.00

So now it would cost £238.80.

:o
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Bless you - you must have money to burn :D

I had my haylage analysed and left it at that :o May not have been scientifically accurate....but it seemed to do the job for my old boy.

I sacked it all off this year and just feed Pro Balance + and avoid alfalfa now - that seems to work nicely too, as well as being simpler......
 
Paulag said:
Just choose a standard balancer with the minerals you need and no more than 100% recommended amounts of the ones you don't. At that level they'll pee or poo out the excess.

Paula
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It's not that simple Paula.

If the feed analysis has come back high in iron and manganese then she would need to add additional copper in order to get enough copper absorbed. Iron and manganese compete for the same receptor "slots" in the horse.

There are a couple of other combinations that do similar things but I don't have those on my land so I am not up on them.

Also, some minerals such as copper are not excreted, they are stored - copper in the liver, for example. Since copper is poisonous in excess you do have to know what you are doing if you supplement it.

I have also always been told that you must supplement zinc if you supplement copper, but I don't and I don't seem to get any problems from that.

All in all, it's a bit like standing over a cauldron throwing in bits of toad and newt :D
 
I did my hay, as my hay is cut off what they graze so nice and easy for me where I am atm - if I were to move Im not sure what Id do. My land has come out in being so low in so much a normal supplement wouldnt touch the sides with the amounts im needing to feed.

To begin with mine wouldnt touch it, but that was mid summer and there was too much lovely grass/hedges around :rolleyes: Now theyre inhaling it :D They get the minerals in a cup of fast fibre and the bran needed for the phosphorous levels.
 
I've given up with forage analysis but mix my own, a copy of a high spec 'balanced' supplement for UK forage, and can supplement both of mine for less than the cost of feeding one on the branded product or on a lower spec balancer pellet.

Initial set up cost is high but it pays in the long run :)
 
cptrayes said:
All in all, it's a bit like standing over a cauldron throwing in bits of toad and newt :D
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Haha my dad likened mineral mixing night to what he thinks a drug den would look like when he came in to find me, tea towel tied around my face, weighing white and green powder and a smog filling the kitchen :D
 
Have to say calmag and pro balance + have done the trick for my lad, and that's without any analysis being done at all. Calmag cost me £17.40 for 25kgs and I feed 50mgs a day ;) and I spent about £100 on 9 months worth of pro balance supplement.

I'm also saving £78 every 6 weeks in shoes.. :) :)

Must get around to putting my girly on the barefoot diet too so I can save her £55 every 6 weeks too! :)
 
Charwood milling do the bioplex copper and zinc and it's cheaper than pro earth at £7.50 a kg plus p+p
Mine have copper, zinc, salt and magnesium mixed in one small handfull of cheap pony nuts that have been soaked and there is never a problem with them licking the bucket clean though one does have to have mag ox as she won't touch cal mag.
 
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I reccomend that you read Pat Coleby's Natural Horse care. She lived in the UK till the 1950's and has since lived in Australia. Her book on soil analysis, supplements and what works to make your horse healthy at low cost is brilliant, I just re read the whole book last night.


I have fed her supplements to my horses (dolomite/copper sulphate /sulphur/seaweed meal and others) they do not cost much, they are what is missing in the soil, and prevent health issues in your horse.

He main focus is on people analysing their soils and adding what is needed to correct the mineral balance in the soil, not supplements, but the supplements she recomends are useful say where not your property, or trying to fix a problem with your horse like stringhalt, poor hooves, worms etc.
 
cptrayes said:
It's not that simple Paula.

If the feed analysis has come back high in iron and manganese then she would need to add additional copper in order to get enough copper absorbed. Iron and manganese compete for the same receptor "slots" in the horse.

There are a couple of other combinations that do similar things but I don't have those on my land so I am not up on them.

Also, some minerals such as copper are not excreted, they are stored - copper in the liver, for example. Since copper is poisonous in excess you do have to know what you are doing if you supplement it.

I have also always been told that you must supplement zinc if you supplement copper, but I don't and I don't seem to get any problems from that.

All in all, it's a bit like standing over a cauldron throwing in bits of toad and newt :D
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You know we're going to disagree on this already. You get this all the time in the human nutrition world, people set themselves up as "experts" and make it far more complicated than it actually is, because you can't really charge for sane, sensible advice. Very high levels of some minerals will block the uptake of others, and can be toxic, which is why combining different supplements or using mega doses isn't a great idea. But there is published information on the recommended amounts for horses and, as long as you stick to that you won't be reaching toxic levels or causing an imbalance.

Every time I go on supplement sites my blood pressure rises and I feel the need to put a complaint in to the advertising standards authority about the majority of the products there, but I'm sure someone can get a copy of the nutrient recommendations and find a product that is nearest to 100% recommended amounts for everything.

Please can no one post personal abuse this time - I'm not selling anything or putting myself up as an expert, just trying to save people a little money and time.

Paula
 
My horses are obviously neglected, I've never bought a feed supplement or balancer in my life.

They eat grass (and hay and basic feeds in winter - happy hoof and hi fi lite) amazingly they survive :) They are retired and aged 18 and 21.

Although, come to think of it, I did try RigCalm when Barney was a bit fruity ;) (didn't work though, he was still a randy little git)
 
Paulag said:
You know we're going to disagree on this already. You get this all the time in the human nutrition world, people set themselves up as "experts" and make it far more complicated than it actually is, because you can't really charge for sane, sensible advice. Very high levels of some minerals will block the uptake of others, and can be toxic, which is why combining different supplements or using mega doses isn't a great idea. But there is published information on the recommended amounts for horses and, as long as you stick to that you won't be reaching toxic levels or causing an imbalance.

Every time I go on supplement sites my blood pressure rises and I feel the need to put a complaint in to the advertising standards authority about the majority of the products there, but I'm sure someone can get a copy of the nutrient recommendations and find a product that is nearest to 100% recommended amounts for everything.

Please can no one post personal abuse this time - I'm not selling anything or putting myself up as an expert, just trying to save people a little money and time.

Paula
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1. People who do agronomist degrees, are soil experts, grass experts and are paid big bucks by the dairy industry arent experts? Despite the fact they keep cows on a knife edge of production precisely by using analysis and minerals...

2. Glad you do actually acknowledge that supplementing wrongly can lead to toxicity and there are cases where it has been fatal in horses.

3. How on earth can you possibly know what is or isnt a toxic level for someone else unless you have their analysis sat in front of you?! YOU CAN'T.
If I fed my horses the RDA of selenium for example they'd be dead within a month as there is more than average amounts in my grazing....

You need to understand that just because people are disagreeing with you, ie the recent feeding magnesium thread, it doesnt mean they are bullying or being abusive and you cannot go crying oh poor woe is me just because we arent all falling around your necks and thanking you for saving us from the evils of the marketing industry :rolleyes: We are all fully aware of the hype around horsey products and are actually adults capable of making our own decisions for our horses welfare.

Doing an analysis is the only 100% accurate way to know that you aren't over feeding 1 mineral and underfeeding others.
 
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