Crooked horse - thermal images update

cob&onion

cob&onion

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Going of my last thread:
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?647635-Crooked-horse!-vid

Had my mare thermally imaged this evening. Results where interesting.
Found hot spots (areas which show up white are potentially problem areas - especially when compared to the other side) showing on the right hind (a few suspected intermittent lameness on the right rein coming off a circle at 56 - 60 secs on 2nd video page 3 of thread) white area on the right stifle and inside of right hock where the deep flexor tendon is located ie the soft veiny bit that dips in on the inside just up from the hock joint (hope that makes sense?) so a possible problem there and her stifle area also right side - Interesting this has shown up, she did slip in the field at age 2 and did something to her stifle. She was on box rest for a week then came sound after 2 weeks (under vets orders).
The other white area was two small pressure points where the back of her saddle sits - so looks like her saddle needs looking at - good job saddler is booked in 2 weeks anyway and i do want to change her current saddle as i don't think its a good shape on her (despite being fitted summer i think she has changed shape a bit).
Obviously this is not 100% gospel only an idea but a pretty good one by the sounds of it. That right hind has shown up as dreaded.
The saddle issue is interesting and i will email the pic to my saddler to take a look, had a quick look and saddle issues can be causing crookedness, i was so confident that the saddle is 100% but you can never be sure especially as shes lost a bit of weight during the winter months.
Also going to forward pics onto my physio who is due week friday.
Going to see what the physio says now and the saddler is coming anyway.
I think i have the starting point though of where we should be investigating - that hock and stifle area.
I am waiting to be emailed the pics as soon as they come to me will post on here if anyone wants to see them?
 
Glad in a way u have found something as soo frustrating if u cant pinpoint. Will u have xrays? Could be same issue as mine, bone cyst (less dense area of bone) on stifle resulting in inflammation. Bone cysts can be genetic and often don't show till horse is put under strain (eg. ridden work) or can form due to accident (as in my horses case).
 
View from the back looking toward whithers. You can clearly see a white blob either side of her spine directly where the back of the saddle fits, also a white area inbetween.

2uh0kk2.jpg



Right stifle - white area large, showed no white on left stifle

2mnhqoo.jpg


Right inside of hock area - again very white compared to the other side which showed none

2w71js4.jpg


Rear end - all green, lady said it was one of the best behinds she had seen in ages, all good here

6nsga0.jpg
 
meesha said:
Glad in a way u have found something as soo frustrating if u cant pinpoint. Will u have xrays? Could be same issue as mine, bone cyst (less dense area of bone) on stifle resulting in inflammation. Bone cysts can be genetic and often don't show till horse is put under strain (eg. ridden work) or can form due to accident (as in my horses case).
Click to expand...

Interesting, could well be?
see we where talking about the stifle and hock being related - but it seems a bit chicken and egg. Am going to see what the physio suggests and see if she can pick anything up. I think a flexion test would def show up lameness in that hind leg.
 
Now that is very interesting, shall take more notice of my horses when I saddle them up and ride them and when I take the saddle off, see what markings the saddle makes.
 
Can I ask who you used? I have had a very frustrating on/off lameness issue with my mare, can't get to bottom of it, vets, physio flummoxed. Want to get thermal imaging done, even if shows nothing got something to compare it to and always prefer a recommendation!
 
Gleeful Imp said:
Can I ask who you used? I have had a very frustrating on/off lameness issue with my mare, can't get to bottom of it, vets, physio flummoxed. Want to get thermal imaging done, even if shows nothing got something to compare it to and always prefer a recommendation!
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Will PM you

CobsGalore said:
That's very interesting. Who did you get to come out and do this? Do you mind me asking how much it cost?
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Will PM you - it was inexpensive at £35
 
Pls can you also pm me the details of who did the TI for you?

My boy has had on/off stifle issues for a while now-never obviously lame,just odd steps sometimes (mainly when pushed hard in trot,out hacking,tho we did notice some 'banana-ing' (unwilling to bend properly round circle) on the lunge). After most recent flare up,vet did full work up(not had one for a while,always seemed to just be stifle) and discovered arthritis in hock of same hind leg.

Hope it turns out to be something not too significant and fixable with your mare.:)
 
Venevidivici said:
Pls can you also pm me the details of who did the TI for you?

My boy has had on/off stifle issues for a while now-never obviously lame,just odd steps sometimes (mainly when pushed hard in trot,out hacking,tho we did notice some 'banana-ing' (unwilling to bend properly round circle) on the lunge). After most recent flare up,vet did full work up(not had one for a while,always seemed to just be stifle) and discovered arthritis in hock of same hind leg.

Hope it turns out to be something not too significant and fixable with your mare.:)
Click to expand...

Thank you, am really hoping it is fixable. The lady said it doesn't look horrific and she has seen alot worse. I don't mind giving her a year out or whatever the vet recommends so long as she comes sound!
Fingers crossed.

Will PM you details
 
The images are really interesting and certainly show why she is going as she is, the pressure spots on her back explain why she is so tight on her left side and not wanting to stretch to the right, the lameness coming from the right hind at times is also showing as hot spots in stifle and hock, at such an early stage it should mean it is more easily treated before becoming a chronic condition.
I personally would get the vet before physio and saddler, the back will change once treatment, whatever that may be, is under way, the physio can then work along with the vet to get the best outcome with full knowledge of what they are dealing with.
Did they TI her head??

Updates will be really interesting.
 
Do you mind me asking what the procedure was before the scan? Were these taken after riding or after any work or after being stood in or out, etc?
I had problems with my gelding and asked my vet (senior partner at a well-respected local equine practice) about whether TI might help to narrow down the issues and she wasn't keen saying it can throw up a lot of red herrings as it's very sensitive to what the horse has just been doing (i.e. will see a difference between legs if he's been resting one recently).
The areas towards the back of the back are certainly convincing though (can't see how you would see random patches of heat on the back like that). And the patterns seen in the hinds are consistent with what you've experienced in her way of going and known history of injury.
My horse was exhibiting hind lameness as the result of a back problem so it might actually make sense to have a chiro/physio and saddler work together to resolve the saddle fit and soreness there before embarking on expensive lameness work-ups. But if it was me I think I'd ask for a telephone chat with a vet in the first instance (you'll need to ok the chiro visit anyway) to see what they say.
Thanks for sharing this and keep the updates coming.
 
be positive said:
I personally would get the vet before physio and saddler, the back will change once treatment, whatever that may be, is under way, the physio can then work along with the vet to get the best outcome with full knowledge of what they are dealing with.
Did they TI her head??

Updates will be really interesting.
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Yes the vet is aware of her issues but not finding anything so she referred me to a physio a little while back. Physio has been in touch with my vet.
They did scan her head but nothing unusual here.

AshTay said:
Do you mind me asking what the procedure was before the scan? Were these taken after riding or after any work or after being stood in or out, etc?
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I rode her in the morning for a good hour and thought if anything is sore then its more likely to show by the evening rather than not riding and resting.
I kept her in as they have to be mud free as mud can incubate and cause false readings. Also rug has to be off 1 hour before images are done. They are a guide only as obviously outside factors can alter readings as it is very sensitive, ie if they have been standing in muck its going to be warmer or if they have scratched again it will be anwarmer area.
I am impressed by it as you say 2 random patches are not just going to appear under saddle area and that right hind has had its suspicions and its highlightes them as being a possible scorce of inflamation. It certainly gives you a good place to start!
 
Quite amazingly having read this post this morning, I had a phone call from our local TI man who I'd never spoken to but who is friends with my boss. It sounds brilliant. I did tell him there was no point in coming to see my horse is an OAP and we know pretty broken already but that I would in the future. He said vets are pretty dismissive of thermal imaging which sounds quite silly. I would be delighted if it was a service that vets offered too.
 
carolineb said:
Quite amazingly having read this post this morning, I had a phone call from our local TI man who I'd never spoken to but who is friends with my boss. It sounds brilliant. I did tell him there was no point in coming to see my horse is an OAP and we know pretty broken already but that I would in the future. He said vets are pretty dismissive of thermal imaging which sounds quite silly. I would be delighted if it was a service that vets offered too.
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Vets don't think its reliable enough due to all the outside factors that can affect it.
For relativity little money its a dam good place to start whilst trying to diagnose an issue!
 
Really interesting C&O, thanks for sharing the images. I think its a very cost effective way to get clues as to what might be happening. Fingers crossed for getting sorted.
 
Thank you, although i know its early days and no-one knows what it is yet or anything i can't help but feel a little glum regarding the outlook. Getting the gut feeling that its somethings that is always going to be there and if i push too hard she may break so therefore can only be used for hacking and light work - not what i intended for her :(
However i do have a welsh D who is just backed so he is just starting out his career. Seems a bit ironic really that my TB was diagnosed with KS and her ridden career (and sadly a year on) her life was ended just as this cob was being started :(
 
For anyone looking for someone to do T.I in the Lincolnshire and surrounding areas, I could not recommend Amy Mottram enough. She is fully qualified and insured, cost friendly and she does physiotherapy for both horse and rider together. If you pm me, I'll be quite happy to link you to her Facebook.

And I'm a big of a lurker, but watching your video on your first post, I did see some stiffness in behind, I'm glad you have found a starting point for your investigation. X
 
really sorry to be reading the c&o have enjoyed following your little cobs progress :)

i hope your vet and physio are able to pin point the cause of the heat and it is easily fixable.

would you mind pm'ing me with the details of the person you used for the TI.

Thank you and good luck xx
 
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