CROP/WHIP STRUGGLE!

lizsmith

lizsmith

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A have an irish cob named Ralph and he has become very sluggish regarding school work I wanted a 'plod' to gain my confidence on but theres plod and then theres Ralph. I do not want to ride him in spurs and will not do but at his previous home has had a bad experience of whips/crops and is terrified so riding with one is dangerous and pretty much impossible, although he does now allow you to touch him with a crop on his chest whilst on the ground :) ! So does anyone have any tips of how to keep him going in the school at a regular pace or learn to ride him with a crop//whip? HELP PLEASE! THANKYOU!
 
If he doesn't go forwards, what do you do? If you keep going nudge, nudge, nudge etc then he will merrily carry on ignoring you as it is a muddled message.

If you (eg) are walking in the school and you think the walk should go forwards more then give him a little squeeze, if no response, then take your legs away from his side and give him a kick, if no response then usually one would give a flick with a schooling whip. If at any of these points the horse goes forwards (you must always be v careful to be 100% allowing with your hands) then mega praise and off you go - even if he gallops off, this is fine as he went forwards which is what you are after! Fine tuning can come later! Very quickly if you are disaplined in it then if he ignores the squeeze, then taking your legs away from his side should get a good forwards response.

Can I ask why you won't use spurs? If he is frightened of the whip (worth doing a bit of work around that as there are ocassions when it is helpful to carry one) then being able to back up your leg aid with something clearer is helpful for both of you, and should you continue with your flatwork then they are helpful for giving little clear aids. Giving clear and well timed messages is much fairer to him so don't discount them if you think them harsh or something?
 
A wip w o p ??
Make sure when you're riding that you're not tensing up (gripping with the knees is a common one) as this could be inadvertently telling him not to go, also try and have positive feelings about where you're going - pick a fence post in the school, focus on it and ride at it as fast as possible, you'd be surprised how much riding with 'intention' helps. :-)
 
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Okay, well my loan pony ,before being bought had been beaten etc and so was quite whip and headshy, literally terrified but yesterday ,after about a years work though lol, we rode with a schooling whip. So it can be done!

You say he doesnt mind being touched on the chest so I would from the ground start with that in a safe place,maybe stable ,he may prefer it to being tied up. You really really have to be willing to praise a ton,its hard for them.

So gradually(im talking after a few sessions of that) move to his shoulder and neck with the crop. I would recommend just stroking and patting with your hands and everynow and again just including the whip with this.

It WILL take a long time! I'm going through the basic steps I used quickly ,but you have to expect it wont be ready for next month.

Then maybe tacking him up and doing the same things, just stroking and soothing and teaching hhim the whip means nice soft words and strokes.

I would then sit on him, or have someone sit on him and you hold him,and just talk to them ,whilst patting him, and then -slowly,slowly slowly- let the whip have contact with his skin, pat him and take it off. repeat praise etc

Then you want your rider holding it, with you still patting and stroking - just with them HOLDING it , not touching until you've built up to that.

Its then about them walking with it, not rushing off, just walking as he normally does. Even if you want the crop because hes slow, you want him not to think "shes carrying it,they're gonna hit me" , it will undo everything.So just walk ,maybe with your groundsperson by the side;.
You kinda need to do short ,often bursts of this - no point doing it for too long but it needs to be regular.

Then just build up to transitions and stuff, with a horse like him/or my horse, you will barely ever need to actually touch them, carrying it or a tap on your leg should work.

just remember -
Slow,slow,slow,SLOW!! It will take weeks/months. Fear is a horses survival technnique,its hard to teach over something so ingrained.
Short , positive , regular sessions. You want to end on a good note !
I wouldn't ever actually hit these kind of horses.Its sad to see how much of a difference it makes.
Need more help, just PM me :D xxxxx
 
Could you try and do some ground work with him whilst holding a whip or crop?

My boy was scared of whips & crops when i first got him i couldn't mount him whilst holding one. So i would take one in the stable with me and very gently rub it over his chest, neck back etc., i also did this with a lunge whip and allowed him to get used to it, eventually he would allow me to have one passed to me whilst mounted, to begin with we would have to pass it without him seeing what was happening, but now i ride with a whip everytime i ride him and he is fine, and generally only needs a quick flick to remind him what he should be doing :)
 
Is it not going forward with nudging or with proper kicks?

To sharpen up my old pony I would ask gently for more speed. If that was ignored, a proper big pony clubber kick. If she shot forward into canter/trot, fine go with it for a few strides then slow back to what I want. Ask again with gentle nudge, if ignored- booted again! Sharpened her up after a while.
 
I am just not a fan of spurs and would not be happy with using them,
would people suggest using a crop before starting with a schooling whip.
And Ralph is a cheeky horse but in a sweet way, he slowly reduces his speed eventually stopping, when kicks are given he doesn't respond, squeezes seem to keep him going whilst in walk although once getting him in trot I struggle to keep this up :(

Just wish people didn't think it was acceptable to treat horses badly and with whips reducing them to this fear :( !

Thanks again for everyones help and any more advice would be much appreciated!
 
personally i think a crop would be best to start with, as its not so long, you don't run the risk of accidently tapping him with it while your riding, you can use the crop on his neck/shoulder to begin with :)

I agree its not necessary to use one to an extent your horse becomes terrified and its such a shame it has come to this, but im sure with time and patience you will get there.
 
would people suggest using a crop before starting with a schooling whip.
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Yes , I would have thought so,to begin with, you will have more control and can make sure it doesnt touch him accidently
, later, it depends where theyre frightened, my mare must have been hit on the head and neck as she is headshy but was actually better with a schooling whip as i dont think she was hit on the bum much! she responds to it kinda like a normal horse.

Just wish people didn't think it was acceptable to treat horses badly and with whips reducing them to this fear !
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I know. It's reduced me to tears ,its been 2 .5 years since molly was last beatan but to think - that lesson was powerful enough to make her think a guy throwing a ball for his dog was gonna hit her :( so sad . and shes the sweetest thing imaginable too.
 
fatpiggy said:
You have forgotten the most useful aid there is - hearty use of your voice!
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this is great advice. I know of SJumper's who growl at horses! The voice is an underused aid and it can get them to go forward more actively. I use my voice to reinforce leg aids, works a treat.
 
I have tried this unfortunatly the use off my voice doesn't make much difference in the school, hopefully I will get there with him sooner or later! :o
 
Well, my (definitely not cobby) sport horse is notorious for being whip shy, runs away from the leg rather than respecting the aids and can be - ahem - efficient about how much he uses himself/goes forward. Plus, my lower leg isn't stable enough for spurs. My trainer rides him in spurs and never has to use them - but he certainly respects her leg . . . also, she rides three times a day every day so her legs (and seat and core) are certainly stronger than mine. I've discovered that just carrying a crop (short stick) is enough to get Kal to respect my leg - but not so scary that he runs away. If he needs a reminder to move forwards, I just slap the crop on my thigh and that gets his attention . . . he isn't scared by it, but it gets his attention.

I learned that Kal's previous rider rode him with TWO schooling whips . . . no wonder he's whip shy :(.

Oh, and before I got on board with the crop (and I never mount holding one - that just seems unfair when I've spent so much time getting him to stand at the mounting block) I introduced him to it - held it out for him to sniff - little peanut took the flappy end in his mouth, pulled it out of my hands and waved it around . . . made me chuckle.

P
 
ahhaaaahahhaa thanks for your story, made me laugh! And I have poor muscle tone which probably seems my bigger kicks seem tiny to Ralph! :rolleyes:
 
PolarSkye said:
I learned that Kal's previous rider rode him with TWO schooling whips . . . no wonder he's whip shy :(.
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I did that on a very lazy mare. She would ignore me for all she was worth. If I carried two, I could use them in conjunction with my leg aids as a gentle 'pop' if she ignored me. She never ended up whip shy, just active off my leg!

I would say that the dislike of spurs is unjustified- they sharpen your aids and are far better than constant kicking and nudging. If you nag at someone, they can ignore you and tune you out. If you use the occasional quick, sharp command then they tend to listen more! Ask your instructor for advice on whether she'd recommend spurs.
 
agree "growling" does work, it works with my boy who backs off fillers

I used to be able to get an awkward riding school pony to canter if i growled at it whilst standing in the centre of the arena when giving a lesson :)
 
In addition to the above try to think about why you are asking him to go forwards? Generally I imagine that will be because you want to... nothing to do with anything being in it for him.

So...
- pole work if he likes it (put a little one or two out so you can liven up your schooling sessions by trotting over them/jumping every so often even if your focus is on something else)
- lots of transitions and changes of direction, changes or speed within a pace to keep it interesting (removes the times where he will slow down... he will be *doing* something) with buckets of praise/bribery to keep it rewarding
- group work (either follow-my-leader style or symmetric schooling like pairs dressage... if you don't have anyone to do this with you regularly then just ask about following next time you're sharing the school with someone... keeps you out their way so they'll probably say yes!)
- hacking out/free schooling (inc over jumps)/lunging/long reining/bareback schooling/whatever. Both instead of schooling and after a very short schooling session.

If someone asked me to go round in endless circles in a school (not say that is what you do) I'd try to get out of it too!

If this is a new thing then I suspect either
- he is bored as you've been doing it a lot (compared to however much suits him)
- he is tired after being out all night (assuming 24/7 turn out now but in in winter)
- he is hot (cob + weather...)
- he has a physical problem (either in himself, with his tack or the way you ride)

No harm desensitising to whips but personally I never ride with one any more unless an owner insists... and even then I don't use it on the horse!
 
My current horse that I bought in January was very over-sensitive / highly reactive to a whip. As was a project horse I had to sell on last year.

In my mind it is essential that horses accept the whip rationally as an aid and it really is worth persevering with it and de-sensitising them.

Both these horses took 3-4 months to get to the point whereby they didn't massively over react to a schooling whip being carried and occasionally used to 'flick them up'.

The general steps I used on both were the following:

1. Allow a crop to be run over thier entire body, whilst staying relatively relaxed. If they try to move away be gently persistent and do not remove the whip from them, hold it on them until the accept it. This is best done in a stable first and then on a lunge line in an open area.

2. Repeat the above whilst on board. Start with the neck area and only when they are happy with that move to their back/quarters. If you are a bit wobbly make sure you have a neck strap and do it in an arena. Do not remove the whip from them if they run or try to haul them up. Hold onto the neck strap, allow the horse to move but keep the whip resting on their body.

3. Repeat lots! Do it out hacking, whilst grooming, mid schooling. Touch them all over at random times when they are not expecting it.

4. Once 3 is a doddle then pick up a schooling whip and repeat, paying particular attention to that area behind you leg.

My horse will still shoot forwards 2-3 stides if I flick him with a schooling whip so it is imprtant for me to be very aware of when and why I'm doing it (usually because he has dropped off my right leg) and to be ready to allow him to move freely forwards!
 
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