Cross breeding differnt sizes follow up

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ponypassion

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For those readers that followed a debate on cross breeding horses of different sizes , namely Exmoor mares with a Clydesdale stallion most readers had welfare concerns and wondered why this breeding to create a bigger cob to ride .
Two foals of the same description were being offered at an agricultural sale on Friday locally to the breeder. The outcome was they did not meet the reserve . I personally feel shocked at the poor quality and condition of the foals ........ after having it suggested we should not comment on quality with out seeing them for ourselves . It turns out from photos on day of the sale they look in very poor condition with some pretty obvious conformational weaknesses .
 
ponypassion said:
For those readers that followed a debate on cross breeding horses of different sizes , namely Exmoor mares with a Clydesdale stallion most readers had welfare concerns and wondered why this breeding to create a bigger cob to ride .
Two foals of the same description were being offered at an agricultural sale on Friday locally to the breeder. The outcome was they did not meet the reserve . I personally feel shocked at the poor quality and condition of the foals ........ after having it suggested we should not comment on quality with out seeing them for ourselves . It turns out from photos on day of the sale they look in very poor condition with some pretty obvious conformational weaknesses .
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a link would be great
 
search 'brendon fair 2015' on google and it's not hard to find :)

I wonder if the 'horse tied to pen but not for sale' is the clydie sire?
 
:( well ive failed at photos so far and links , however I now have photobucket . If you look up people4ponies a welfare charity the photos are there ( Brendon Fair) for anyone who was involved in the cross breeding debate and was told to judge for themselves not jump on a band wagon .
 
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From the people4ponies blog spot post.

'Friday, 16 October 2015
Brendon Fair

There were just 3 equines for sale at Brendon Fair today - 2 foals and a much older colt. It was good to see that they had hay provided for them and there was some bedding provided in the barn. Although there were bids offered, none made the reserve price so all went unsold.

These foals were both described as Clydesdale X (TB X Exmoor).
The colt foal on the right had bids up to £200 but was unsold.
The filly foal on the left had bids up to £50 and was unsold.'

image.jpg1_zpstakmbpc8.jpg
 
On a post elsewhere on social media the person who is presumably the owner of these two foals states that the filly is a Clydesdale/Exmoor cross.
So we are back to the deplorable mating of a Clydesdale stallion to an Exmoor mare, with all the possible injuries during both covering and foaling. A welfare issue for sure.
This so-called 'breeding programme' does not appear to have been very successful, judging by the appearance of these two foals.
 
Looking back that's five elderly Exmoor mares ( presumed to be pedigree and of some value in genetic terms ) , the breeder claimed could not remain on the common/moor and survive . For them to stay in ground on the home farm pastures they needed to earn their keep . Would being pts be the worst end to a wild moorland mare I ask when she could no longer manage ? ....... Why not borrow the neighbours Clydesdale colt and make a few quid at the farmers market from them . Cruel and pointless that's why .
 
This breeding programme is a farce. NO thought to the welfare of the animals. The foals may grow up able to do some low level riding (can't tell anything about them from those photos) but then again they may grow up to live a life of pain. Stupidest cross ever, and clearly not profitable at all. Saddest thing is eventually some sad sop will buy them to "rescue" them and the breeder will think this is a huge success and the foal churner will be turned on..
 
Tiddlypom said:
I thought that, too. He/she has a nice smiley face but I hope it isn't passing those awful hind legs on to future generations.
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Welfare issues aside, I see absolutely no value whatsoever in this cross (doesn't deserve to be called a breeding programme).

Yes, Clydesdales have a particular hind leg conformation which derives from being bred traditionally to plough and walk in the furrow (very cow hocked and close moving, even one foot in front of other and with frying pan feet so not to sink into the soil). Large upright shoulder to take a collar to push into.

This is ideal for a ploughing draft horse. But not conformation you would aim for when breeding a typical 'sport' horse.

Disclaimer .... I know there are good Clyde X out there (before I get annoyed Clyde x owners replying!) but I'm sure you will agree a cross with a native pony is not the best.

Rediculous.
 
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twiggy2 said:
I don't agree with the breeding programme but the photo does not really tell us much about condition or conformation
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I suppose little can be seen of the conformation from these photos , having seen other photos sadly the colt is not standing oddly behind , his hocks are like that all the time almost touching (cow hocked ) , his gaskin is very long , he has lost a leg on each corner and bone girth yet gained an upright shoulder . Without picking holes I say no more apart from these were bred with the purpose of being weight carriers suitable for the role of an Exmoor sports horse , hunting ODE and such with a large rider on top . Condition is not one that I would feel proud to say was a result of being in my care or to present in public .
 
I disagree with this 'breeding programme' if it really can be referred to as such, but I am going to go out and say that I would have one of these ponies (for no more than £100) purely because I would be intrigued to see what they would be like visually and temperament wise when they have matured. They will never be riding horses going by what I can see of their confirmation (and I am a novice in this respect) but could be a nice horse to have about the yard.

HOWEVER, I would never dream of buying one purely because I would not support this ludicrous venture, and I would not want the breeder to think that they have come up with something that anyone would want. I almost hope that none of them sell, ever, purely so she wont consider doing it again.
 
I for one fail to see any weight in a 'profit' motive behind any cross such as this. Even well bred foals are likely to be sold at a loss when you consider the costs of getting a live foal on the ground and caring for it until sold. Surely just feeding and caring for the mares throughout pregnancy will have cost more than the foals will ever bring back in? Especially now that there is also the added running costs of feeding them and general care. You also have to factor in unexpected vet bills at any point...

Surely if you want a chance to make an extra buck you do NOT breed your mare unless exceptional, to something exceptional, and even then it is a game of luck. I have never known a breeder to breed primarily for profit but for taking pride in what they do.

ETA. is the filly in the pictures pure Exmoor x Clydesdale and the colt the one with Exmoor x TB on one side? It is all a bit confusing. And the pictures do highlight just how massive a Clydesdale is next to these.
 
MargotC said:
Surely if you want a chance to make an extra buck you do NOT breed your mare unless exceptional, to something exceptional, and even then it is a game of luck. I have never known a breeder to breed primarily for profit but for taking pride in what they do.
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happens on moors and mountains all over the UK. they make a profit because you've not paid anything in in terms of vet care, wormers, trimming etc etc look at all the scrappy welsh mountain ponies at the sales, the coloured cobs, the ponies on Dartmoor etc. Much less lucrative now I expect but 10 years ago it was worth a punt.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
happens on moors and mountains all over the UK. they make a profit because you've not paid anything in in terms of vet care, wormers, trimming etc etc look at all the scrappy welsh mountain ponies at the sales, the coloured cobs, the ponies on Dartmoor etc. Much less lucrative now I expect but 10 years ago it was worth a punt.
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Ah, of course. It is a real pity. I was thinking in terms of a breeding stock which got the appropriate care (and money going into it)!

I wonder what the reserves were set at that these crosses failed to meet.
 
I have just been told that the colt was purchased privately for £350. There have been many health issues since buying, infected gelding site, massive worm burden which is proving impossible to shift, and very feral. Second-hand information but quite reliable.
 
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