Cross breeds

[poiuytrewq]

Just musing really, back in the olden days! X breeds were called mongrels and as I remember considered healthier or tougher than pedigrees.
We had a pedigree as kids, a Cairn because it was my mums first dog and she wanted it to be correct.
Now x breeds are fashionable, every cross has a name and they cost as much as a pedigree.
It seems to me there is the love them or hate them sides.
As lots of you will know I have a x breed, (?) he’s my first and it was purely because I didn’t have a set breed in mind, he was found accidentally and my detective work into his “breeding” made me confident he wasn’t puppy farmed or a regular litter.
Since buying him, when asked I feel a bit embarrassed that he’s a “designer” type dog, so I say he’s a terrier or x breed. I’m not an out and proud “jackuhuahua” owner ?
I think it’s the stigma attached and as a long term lab owner I feel a bit bad about it ?‍
When we visited a new vet recently she was all over him. Commented what a lovely dog he was and how in her opinion a x breed was often healthier and had less issues than the tons of un tested pedigrees she saw. I was really surprised.
So what is the status of a Heinz 57? I
I know I got a good one but in general are they all an awful buy (bought by awful people!)

 

[AmyMay]

No, I don’t think they are all an awful buy at all. I think what people mainly object to is the ridiculous price tags, stupid names, and some of the more ridiculous crosses.

I walk a number of cross breeds. All absolutely delightful dogs. None of these crosses has improved either breed they’re crossed with. So struggle to understand what the thinking was behind these crosses. But, as I said, they’re all lovely.

 

[poiuytrewq]

No, I don’t think they are all an awful buy at all. I think what people mainly object to is the ridiculous price tags, stupid names, and some of the more ridiculous crosses.

I walk a number of cross breeds. All absolutely delightful dogs. None of these crosses has improved either breed they’re crossed with. So struggle to understand what the thinking was behind these crosses. But, as I said, they’re all lovely.

The price tags are mad. My daughter paid £1600 for a x breed.
Mine was nowhere near that.
They don’t seem to be dropping. I really thought they would.

 

[Smitty]

My mum was a huge pedegree dog lover. One day I found a GSD cross on the road, traced his owners who said have him, and she was hooked.

25 years ago I paid £45.00 for a collie x springer - - brilliant dog but died at 6 (White blood cells attacking red or vice versa, don't remember now)

Got a Lab x Collie from rescue centre, just wonderful. Died at 13.

Since then terrier type mongrels. No way do I want a "breed".

 

[scats]

All mine are crossbreeds. And no ridiculous prices here either. One was a rescue from a local dog welfare charity.
We have a Great Dane x Husky (13 years)l a Corgi x Cockapoo (5 years) and a Shih Tzu x JR (3 years)
Three of the loveliest dogs you could wish to meet

 

[EllenJay]

My two girls are both x breeds (completely unknown breeding as they are both rescue). I don’t like the designer labels that are given to cross breeds - in my opinion just increases their price.

My girls give me pleasure every day, they are aged about 12 & 10 now

 

[meleeka]

I would actively avoid a pedigree. Heinz 57 (and not some designer cross) every day for me.

 

[Moobli]

I have no problem at all with crossbreeds or mongrels, nor the designer names or price tag if the parents are health tested, pups reared with care and it’s not just all about the £££. Life is too short to worry about such things imo. We have some purpose bred crossbreeds here (working beardie x border collie) and they are, without exception, absolutely lovely dogs.

 

[splashgirl45]

All 3 of mine are mixed breeds, one terrier has 6 breeds in him, the other terrier has 3 and my latest boy is mainly whippet with a dash of bedlington and collie, so 3 breeds. I’ve only ever had one purebred and she was a deerhound my absolutely favourite breed but too short lived sadly

 

[Spotherisk]

I don’t care either way. My first lurchers sire and all his sires siblings all died young of an autoimmune disease, Finn lived until he was nearly 15.

I do like crosses which kind of match in groups, ie lab x spanner
, quite different dogs in drive but essentially trying to get the same job done. Cross say a pointer with a collie, you have hpr viaing with herding. I saw a gsd x corgi once, poor dog looked like a cut and shunt, big head and tail, nothing seemed to work too well.

 

[ArklePig]

I'd love a proper heinz 57. Or as my mam calls them, Dana dogs-'all kinds of everything'. As opposed to some designer cross.

This is Finnegan, my childhood dog, and I still pine for one like him some day. Doggy DNA tests weren't a thing then but no one could ever agree on what he was and it seemed to make him more interesting. I don't know why I only have black and white photos but he was basically yorkie coloured.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I would actively avoid a pedigree. Heinz 57 (and not some designer cross) every day for me.

Why? Just because you prefer a particular breed?

 

[Sandstone1]

I disagree massively with designer breeds bred from totally unsuitable breeds simply to make money. Often no health checks and often you will get the worst of both breeds not the best. Sometimes you might get lucky and get a nice dog but all too often they will have health problems because of the lack of thought in breeding them.
I hate the stupid names people give them too like puggles, cockerpoo, and the like. Hate it drives me made. They are mongrels breed simply to make money.

 

[meleeka]

Why? Just because you prefer a particular breed?

It’s because I want a type, rather than a specific breed. I don’t want to tar all KC registered dogs with the same brush, but many have health and/or personality issues. Some breeds have just been ruined imo. I just want a nice, uncomplicated dog that isn’t likely to suffer with health conditions. The dogs i’ve had that do that have been mixed mongrels.

A lot of designer crosses have been bred because the name sounds good, or because it’s hoped they’ll be a cuter version of what they are crossed with, and be worth £££, but not because it makes a good cross. Neighbour has a Pomski, a Huski x Pomeranian. What’s the point of that?! She thought she’d be getting a Pom with a fluffy grey coat, when she’s actually got a small Husky with the worst attitudes of both breeds.

 

[Indy]

Bandit's a crossbreed. He's a kelpie collie cross and he is an awesome dog. He's a real go anywhere, do anything dog and I wouldn't be without him. I like Kelpies and Collies in their own right and I've often wondered why you would choose to cross two good breeds. Regardless Bandit is ace.

There's a Cockerpoo at my agility club called Maisie and she's gorgeous. If I had loads of money I'd be tempted to buy one.

I had two farm bred Border Collies who didn't have a pedigree and they were smashing dogs too.

 

[scats]

One of the most fabulously loyal, intelligent dogs I’ve ever met. So trainable, so loving. The perfect family pet. This is Bess, our Corgi x Cockapoo.

 

[Bradsmum]

The giving every cross breed a specific name does seem to have got out of hand. My current dog is a Lakeland x Border terrier and doesn't seem to have a designer name . The glut of dogs on the market does seem to be your average Joe breeding in the cheapest way to make money with little effort. Our local rescue centres seem to currently have an influx of lurchers. It would be wrong not to post a photo of current dog. I don't think he's too dissimilar to your childhood dog Arklepig.

 

[skinnydipper]

My preference generally is to adopt a rescue hence only one of the 11 dogs I have had has been bought as a puppy from a breeder, my first GSD - a birthday gift from OH many years ago.

My dogs have been a mix of mutts, cross bred and purebred dogs. My current dog, also from a rescue, is not purebred.

One of my dogs of unknown parentage had several health issues including epilepsy and multiple food allergies. In my mind that put paid to any theory that mongrels are healthier. Another was born deaf, she had languished in rescue kennels for a year.

My second GSD had hip and elbow dysplasia. Had he been bred by a responsible breeder we could have been saved the pain and heartache.

I am not a dog snob. I've loved all my dogs whatever their background or breeding and when you adopt a rescue it's the luck of the draw, a gamble, what genetic disease or tendency the dog has inherited.

Buying from a breeder is somewhat different. You can choose to buy from a breeder who screens for known health issues of that breed, or breeds if it is a cross, and look forward to your dog enjoying a long and healthy life.

 

[ArklePig]

The giving every cross breed a specific name does seem to have got out of hand. My current dog is a Lakeland x Border terrier and doesn't seem to have a designer name . The glut of dogs on the market does seem to be your average Joe breeding in the cheapest way to make money with little effort. Our local rescue centres seem to currently have an influx of lurchers. It would be wrong not to post a photo of current dog. I don't think he's too dissimilar to your childhood dog Arklepig.

Yes he definitely is! Very similar colouring. I've often wondered if mine had a bit of Glen of Imaal terrier in him but that's extremely random and not very common. Very good boys either way ?

 

[MuddyMonster]

Ours is a rescue so no concrete idea what he actually is. He's as tough as old nails but came from the streets so guess he had to be to survive.

Our childhood family dog was a rescue mongrel and my parent's have had rescued/retured ex-racing greyhounds from a charity ever since we lost him many years ago.

I'd probably never buy a dog as my preference is to rescue but other than that, I'm not fussed whether they are a purebred or crossbreed.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

I think it’s unfortunate that even people on here who seem knowledgeable are still saying pedigrees can be less healthy than crosses. It’s all about the health testing, imo, whether it’s a designer cross or end product of a long line of carefully bred pedigrees. Some pedigrees may be unhealthy, but that’s due to the back yard breeders who don’t health test. An awful lot of designer crosses that I’ve come across are unhealthy and have clearly been created by throwing 2 random un-tested dogs together with money as the sole reason.

Not so much a designer cross, but an ‘whoops’ litter, I see a lot of gun dog crosses, I keep hearing that the gamekeeper’s dog caught the whatever bitch. Some people with gun dogs seem to rely on the dog being a good worker and healthy to produce puppies without health testing the parents.

I’m very stuck on ‘my’ breed, we’re on our 3rd lot, so I’ll probably stick with it. I might, in the future, rescue a random rescue, but I think I’ll always have springers.

 

[blackcob]

There is an argument that health testing can only go so far in a completely closed gene pool, and there is evidence now that some breeds are so bottlenecked that health testing alone is not sufficient to eradicate issues or prevent suffering (hence the inclusion of CKCS in the Norwegian breeding ban, which I think many misinterpreted as applying only to brachycephalic dogs). I am not averse to outcrossing ahem, crossbreeding in pedigree dogs, for that reason, and there are many sensible efforts to do so to 'save' breeds and ensure longer term better health outcomes.

There are increasing numbers of purpose bred crossbreeds in both of the sports I've been involved in over the last few years - borderpaps are still the next big thing in agility if you don't want a miniaturised working cocker.

I agree though that most of this does not apply to the average cockapoo/cavapoo etc. sold on Pets4Homes and the like, and the objections to these are the mad price tags, frequent lack of any health testing and any consideration of temperament/size/type/suitability, in favour of how cute they might look and how much they will sell for. More broadly it must be an impossible task as a new puppy buyer not 'in' dogs to navigate the strange world of dog breeding.

 

[KittenInTheTree]

Bandit's a crossbreed. He's a kelpie collie cross and he is an awesome dog. He's a real go anywhere, do anything dog and I wouldn't be without him. I like Kelpies and Collies in their own right and I've often wondered why you would choose to cross two good breeds. Regardless Bandit is ace.

There's a Cockerpoo at my agility club called Maisie and she's gorgeous. If I had loads of money I'd be tempted to buy one.

I had two farm bred Border Collies who didn't have a pedigree and they were smashing dogs too.

I have a Kelpie/Smooth Collie here. He came from working parents. Most of his siblings went on to be farm dogs with cattle.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

There is an argument that health testing can only go so far in a completely closed gene pool, and there is evidence now that some breeds are so bottlenecked that health testing alone is not sufficient to eradicate issues or prevent suffering (hence the inclusion of CKCS in the Norwegian breeding ban, which I think many misinterpreted as applying only to brachycephalic dogs). I am not averse to outcrossing ahem, crossbreeding in pedigree dogs, for that reason, and there are many sensible efforts to do so to 'save' breeds and ensure longer term better health outcomes.

There are increasing numbers of purpose bred crossbreeds in both of the sports I've been involved in over the last few years - borderpaps are still the next big thing in agility if you don't want a miniaturised working cocker.

I agree though that most of this does not apply to the average cockapoo/cavapoo etc. sold on Pets4Homes and the like, and the objections to these are the mad price tags, frequent lack of any health testing and any consideration of temperament/size/type/suitability, in favour of how cute they might look and how much they will sell for. More broadly it must be an impossible task as a new puppy buyer not 'in' dogs to navigate the strange world of dog breeding.

Hence people being quite keen to look at foreign sires, which I appreciate is bloody difficult, especially in non numerous breeds. I agree, the average new puppy buyer will be confronted with tons of choice and probably hasn’t much of a clue re health tests.

I think outcrossing to resolve eg the purine issue/brachycephalic dogs is essential. I’m a bit ? at the KC objecting and refusing registration when a certain outcross was purely for health purposes, but actually not really amazed, given their lack of action re health issues and allowing registration of hundreds puppies from a sire with known syringomyelia.

I wish they would take action, from breeding co-efficient to required nose to skull ratio, but I think they’re just too weak to force the issue and how would they police it, anyway?

 

[lozzles]

I would also add health testing isn't a perfect science. We had a springer whose parents were tested and shouldn't have carried glaucoma but she got it. And our golden retriever was from an incredibly responsible breeder, show and working lines. Full health tests hips etc done and she was born with juvenile renal dysplasia. The breeder subsequently spayed the line.

 

[Moobli]

Health testing certainly has its limits, especially for issues such as hip/elbow dysplasia as it is thought to have environmental components as well as genetic heritability.

 

[fiwen30]

I’ve spoken before about my lad, who is very much a WHOOPS crossbreed - a rough collie and a Jack Russell, of all things.

He came from a rescue centre, but I happened across an identical (weird) looking dog and it’s owner several years ago, and upon chatting it was obvious they were the same litter - same age, location, cross, and very distinct look - the owner had her dog from a pup, and told me that the mother had been the JR, to a litter of 10 pups!

He is poorly conformed - a long, heavyset body on little knobbly JR legs - but he is also a wonderful person, and my best friend.

I would never encourage his cross to be repeated, I don’t believe he is a healthier dog for being a crossbreed (£2.5k leg op to prove it!), and as much as I love who he is I wouldn’t want that cross to occur again.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Health testing certainly has its limits, especially for issues such as hip/elbow dysplasia as it is thought to have environmental components as well as genetic heritability.

Slippery flooring was mentioned in that article from a vet I posted the other day: our downstairs is tiles and lvt, so almost totally covered in runners/off cuts rescued from the loft. It looks crap, but I’d far rather that than risk the boys’ joints.

 

[CorvusCorax]

You have to try very hard or have a very catastrophic incident to damage genetically good hips and elbows IME.

 

[skinnydipper]

You have to try very hard or have a very catastrophic incident to damage genetically good hips and elbows IME.

Environmental factors alone don't cause hip dysplasia, A dog will only develop hip dysplasia if it has a genetic predisposition..