Cross country help

[DurbanSkies]

Hi all!
I’m having a little trouble with my horse out cross country;
He’s a 9 year old ex steeplechase horse who I’ve owned almost a year now. When I first got him we had plenty of teething problems from bucking and refusing to canter a 20m circle and bombing at jumps, despite the fact in his previous home he’d competed up to BE100.
we’ve come along way since then and now schools lovely in a contact and is jumping 1.10 out sj. However when I’ve evented him the last three times we’ve come to a grinding halt xc.
Now I’ve schooled him out cross country 5 times and never had an issue with any jump or combo I’ve pointed him at, even jumping through novice and intermediate tracks. He’s not happy to leave his friends but he will and jump away and go and pop a course alone.
At pure sj events he will travel up with his field buddies and happily go and work and jump lovely and not at all nappy.
however at BEits a completely different story; he’s absolutely not phased at all in the dr and sj phases but as soon as it comes to the xc he completely shuts down. Spooks at the warm up fences and I really have to bully him to get him over them. Walks to the start box no issue but once in there very reluctant to go forwards. He usually refuses the first and second from miles off but will pop them no issue the second time round (doesn’t even look them). At our first event we got eliminated at the 6th fence on course. Then at Tweseldown we made it the entire way round amazing until the last fence when he spied the warm up and I couldn’t get his focus back in time. However I was super happy we’d got round with only one spot. And then this weekend at Dauntsey he refused the first and second where I literally had to walk him up to the fences. After the second we got into a super rhythm really going nicely, even over the dreaded ditch which was causing havoc, until out of nowhere he stopped at a tiny house about 10 feet away, and then at the fence afterwards - would not go anywhere forwards at all.
I’m riding with a whip and Spurs But he doesn’t pay any attention.
Sorry for the long post but does anyone have any tips in overcoming this backwardness? I feel it’s more of a confidence issue of us together rather than a napping issue but I’m not sure as he is very spooky on hacks especially on his own. I’m debating taking him hunting to try and get it going forwards and more confident.

 

[KittyH]

Where are you? Is there a professional who you could go schooling with and potentially ride him at an event for you? Did he do this with the previous owner? Can you get to a flagged BE course and school exactly as if it were a competition eg jump some fences in the warm up area and then go and jump a complete course. If it was a venue where you could then go back for a training/unaff ode a week later that would be ideal. Epworth and Great Witchingham would both be possibilities for doing this. An autumn team chasing might make him fall in love with xc at a competitive environment.

 

[J&S]

What about going some where more low key and try doing a pairs class, this might rekindle his enthusiasm for going forward. Also was thinking about team chase as mentioned by KittyH.

 

[Upthecreek]

If you aren’t having any issues at all when XC schooling it sounds like the added effect of stress/adrenaline of competition on both of you could be the issue. Also he doesn’t sound confident doing anything independently on his own without other horses.

The spooking and shutting down suggests that he is more focused on what’s going on around him than on you. Although you’ve XC schooled him 5 times (which isn’t many) and he has been fine I think you need to do more of this at different venues and get him really confident and listening to you at all times before competing. He probably just isn’t quite as confident XC as you think he is. Hunting can be brilliant for getting them thinking forwards and more bold. It doesn’t always translate to XC though as some would still like to have another horse to follow around the course!

If you just carry on with competing without resolving this it will become an ingrained habit and his automatic response to stress or something he is unsure of will be to stop. Forget about competing for now and take a step back with your training. I would also really work on getting him confident hacking alone. Unfortunately we often accidentally set our horses up to fail by doing everything with another horse (hacking/turnout/travelling) and then we expect them to be fine on their own competing. You need to teach him to be more independent and less reliant on other equines.

 

[DurbanSkies]

If you aren’t having any issues at all when XC schooling it sounds like the added effect of stress/adrenaline of competition on both of you could be the issue. Also he doesn’t sound confident doing anything independently on his own without other horses.

The spooking and shutting down suggests that he is more focused on what’s going on around him than on you. Although you’ve XC schooled him 5 times (which isn’t many) and he has been fine I think you need to do more of this at different venues and get him really confident and listening to you at all times before competing. He probably just isn’t quite as confident XC as you think he is. Hunting can be brilliant for getting them thinking forwards and more bold. It doesn’t always translate to XC though as some would still like to have another horse to follow around the course!

If you just carry on with competing without resolving this it will become an ingrained habit and his automatic response to stress or something he is unsure of will be to stop. Forget about competing for now and take a step back with your training. I would also really work on getting him confident hacking alone. Unfortunately we often accidentally set our horses up to fail by doing everything with another horse (hacking/turnout/travelling) and then we expect them to be fine on their own competing. You need to teach him to be more independent and less reliant on other equines.

Thank you - yep I’ve already withdrawn from borde hill and will be leaving anything xc competition related for the time being. He will compete sj and dr at competitions completely alone it’s just the xc phase. So like you say I’m going to really focus on hacking him alone and I thought maybe going to a xc venue without any other horses might also help?

 

[Upthecreek]

Yes I would definitely get out cross country schooling on your own. Stick to smaller fences if need be to start with and really build his confidence in you and him as a partnership. Generally at SJ and dressage comps you are always in sight of other horses so it’s only really the XC that they have to properly go it alone. Many horses are bold in company, but massively lose confidence doing anything on their own. This is usually because this has been missed out during their early training. It’s fun doing horsey things with other people but you have to train the horse to be happy and confident going solo. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[sportsmansB]

I had one like this and I'm afraid this isn't going to be the answer you are looking for
Mine was perfect schooling, even on his own
We were leading before XC at both of the events I rode him at, no probs in dressage or SJ, happy to go away from others and gate etc.
At the first one he was sticky but we got round, I went easy as it was our first and just cantered round. We were almost last to go of the whole day so limited other horses in warm up / lorry park
At the second one I didn't even get to the second fence, he downed tools ages before it. Going away from lorries.
Then he bucked me off when I smacked him as he was napping down the field
That day I was friends with the landowner and he let me stay on after everyone had left, and a pro friend rode him round the full course. No bother, but no other horses around
Same pro friend then took him to next event. He got round but lots of encouragement required.
He did another one for me as he felt it still wasn't right, and horse switched off completely at the fence closest to the lorry park (was about fence 10) and had 3 stops
Friend is an olympian so not exactly a pushover (like me lol)
I ended up selling him to a lovely girl who doesn't want to event competitively, and she is very happily doing SJ, dressage, derbies, and XC schooling days with her mates.
We aren't sure if it was pressure, or adrenaline, or what that he couldn't cope with. He did a few hunts as well and was OK but didn't really have to go on his own.
I just decided that to be honest some people don't like doing XC at competitions and we don't force them, he clearly hated it even when all preparation was done, he was fit and happy, so I let him go to a home where he could excel in the things he was good at...

 

[DurbanSkies]

Little update in case anyone has some more advice:
Was entered into Tweseldown’s UA last weekend and decided to have a go at it as it’s a venue he’s been to a few times and couldn’t get refund if we withdrawed.
Pony did a foot perfect dr, and just tapped the last sj. Onto the xc, on the way down to the warm up he felt really on it, wanting to trot down to where we were going. Got into the warm up and kept it at a walk until 2 before us, popped both warm ups this time being dragged to them which was a great feeling. We never went back to a walk and at the start box I really tried to keep his mind on me with many circles. The first jump was alongside the warm up and though he went away from the box it was a little sticky but forward nonetheless. The second was very much the same, but once we landed and I asked him to gallop, off he went !! This course really didn’t suit him as we rolled back on ourselves twice and had other horses going in different directions, but he kept his mind on the job, and went through all the combinations looking and locking on to fences which is a feeling I’ve only got from him in training. We ended up going clear, if not with some time as I was very concerned to keep him straight and accurate for a nice clear.
so now I’m hoping that the last few events have definitely been a confidence issue with him being in new places;
So the plan is now to just get him out xc schooling as much as possible in the following months, practice, practice, practice and hopefully next season this will allow him to be confident out and about

 

[Orangehorse]

Oh well done, that is so nice when things start to improve!

Yep, just practice and most important is that the horse enjoys it.

 

[ycbm]

Well done!
.

 

[TheMule]

Well done! That sounds like a really productive and successful outing

 

[paddi22]

question for people who have horses like this. If you hunter trial them do they act the same way? I'd usually get a load of hunter trials under my belt on any young horse, so I just assume once they are ok with hunter trialling it will be fine for events as they know the leaving friends/speakers/start box stuff. but has anyone hunter trialled fine and then found they had an issue only at events?

 

[Bernster]

Paddi, I find there aren’t enough pure hunter trials around me to really put that into practice before doing ode. I think mine is still backward at a ht so it’s the same, although it’s been a while since I did a ht that I don’t really remember ! I do the disciplines separately before doing any events though. Might do baby munstead end of Aug so I will test it then. Although currently still only have a (forward cut) dressage saddle so that might be ahem interesting.

 

[LEC]

question for people who have horses like this. If you hunter trial them do they act the same way? I'd usually get a load of hunter trials under my belt on any young horse, so I just assume once they are ok with hunter trialling it will be fine for events as they know the leaving friends/speakers/start box stuff. but has anyone hunter trialled fine and then found they had an issue only at events?

Hunter trials stress me out, they are rarely ideal for young horses. I have always felt my life was more in balance warming up at a hunter trials than eventing. I rarely tend to xc school alone and you test them by leaving their friends to go off and jump something, even the super wobbly ones will have a lead, come back round and leave their friend and do it on their own, so it starts from day one. I make sure I always manage the start box for young horses, not enough people do this in my opinion, they just wing it. The skills for leaving the start box are rarely start box related. The hours go in a long time before.

 

[paddi22]

Hunter trials stress me out, they are rarely ideal for young horses. I have always felt my life was more in balance warming up at a hunter trials than eventing.

I would disagree with this personally. our hunter trials are filled with professional eventers/ olympic medalists going last in a pre novice class and schooling youngsters around a hunter trial. every single young horse I've had has benefited from getting used to busy hunter trial warmups. with very sensitive ones it's a case of slotting in either first or last in the class and Timing when the warmup will be quietest.

In some cases when all classes were mental busy I've just asked to be one of the last horses out on course and paid to just hc and just leave the start box and pop the first two low level fences. Personally I don't take a horse eventing unless I had brought it to hunter trial and I know all the pros around me do the same. there's usually a handful of us with green horses end up meeting on course at some stage or doing pairs for leads! but I know hunter trials vary from location to location, so some aren't always as understanding.

 

[LEC]

I would disagree with this personally. our hunter trials are filled with professional eventers/ olympic medalists going last in a pre novice class and schooling youngsters around a hunter trial. every single young horse I've had has benefited from getting used to busy hunter trial warmups. with very sensitive ones it's a case of slotting in either first or last in the class and Timing when the warmup will be quietest.

In some cases when all classes were mental busy I've just asked to be one of the last horses out on course and paid to just hc and just leave the start box and pop the first two low level fences. Personally I don't take a horse eventing unless I had brought it to hunter trial and I know all the pros around me do the same. there's usually a handful of us with green horses end up meeting on course at some stage or doing pairs for leads! but I know hunter trials vary from location to location, so some aren't always as understanding.

Luckily there are many ways to skin a cat....... the only people who HT round here are kids and very grassroots riders hence why warm ups are chaos. They only run HT in October so pointless in YH production unless you have a really backwards one.

 

[paddi22]

weird, we are lucky here that there are tons of spring and autumn ones and the organisers don't particularly care what you do once you make it clear you are hc, you know what you are doing and they get the cash. when the warm ups are empty at the end of the day a lot of people turn up to go out and school the course here, I had just assumed it was the same everywhere, I always found it very handy, I'd be lost without it. I'd one horse that was a nightmare in start box if there was a speaker near it, and they let me start as normal with countdown and speaker, jump a fence, trot back and do it three times, they were so kind and it really helped the horse so much.