Cross Country Position

LEC

LEC

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I had an interesting conversation with my trainer regarding galloping into oxer/table/brush type fences.

Last time I went cross country schooling I felt I rode like a t*** and so had a lesson to look at why I rode like a t***.

Basically the issue I had was that my shoulders were too forwards going into these bigger fences as I was only in half seat and instead 5 strides away I needed to sit up, put my leg on and commit.

I am just interested in other people's thoughts on this?
 
As an ex-BS'er I used to sit down and ride with seat/legs into a fence and did this over a XC course too when I moved to BE, however last year an instructor suggested I stayed out of the saddle - keeping legs on to ride to the fence but not sitting as this slows the horse down - we were having a lesson to work on reducing time faults and getting me to XC the jumps rather than SJ them!

it was very weird riding without sitting but it seemed to work.
 
You would have been told the same thing at the XC session you missed due to ginger malingering. RD was very hot on the fact that you have to get in the saddle and commit to the fence - no backwards riding allowed, and no having your shoulders in front of the movement. Most interesting was the Normandy Bank which we jumped, as the others were told they needed to get the canter sorted and bouncy (coffin canter), then ride forwards to it - he said that the reason people have stops or dribble over the fence on top is they ride backwards to the step up and the drop, when really, you need to ride forwards to it. Every time anyone had their shoulders too far forwards into the fence he made them jump it again.

ETA: I would never approach any XC fence in a half seat personally - I like to be behind the horse in case something goes wrong!
 
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I was only told that I needed to sit the last 5 strides so should not make a difference to speed?
I was watching some video of the CIC3* in the USA and some make it look easy, some make a meal of it and some have moments!
 
LEC said:
I had an interesting conversation with my trainer regarding galloping into oxer/table/brush type fences.

Last time I went cross country schooling I felt I rode like a t*** and so had a lesson to look at why I rode like a t***.

Basically the issue I had was that my shoulders were too forwards going into these bigger fences as I was only in half seat and instead 5 strides away I needed to sit up, put my leg on and commit.

I am just interested in other people's thoughts on this?
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I have found that I HAVE to sit up and put my leg on in front of a bigger fence (tables / corners or anything scary) as the horse is not the boldest and if I am not 100% committed he may stop or run out and I will fall off. Which will hurt. A Lot. I think if he were bolder I would probably still end up riding in the same way though as it has become a bit of a habit now.

Not sure if that helps any?
 
LEC said:
I was only told that I needed to sit the last 5 strides so should not make a difference to speed?
I was watching some video of the CIC3* in the USA and some make it look easy, some make a meal of it and some have moments!
Click to expand...

That was exactly what we were told at the clinic you missed. Last 5 strides you need to be sat down, shoulders back and riding to the fence.

It was about the only XC lesson I have ever enjoyed!
 
Shame I missed it as it does sound good. Jo sorted me out on Friday and gave me a kick up the backside and highlighted all my weaknesses of which there are many ;)

My lesson with Andrew was fabulous yesterday. I had forgotten how good he is.
 
LEC said:
Shame I missed it as it does sound good. Jo sorted me out on Friday and gave me a kick up the backside and highlighted all my weaknesses of which there are many ;)

My lesson with Andrew was fabulous yesterday. I had forgotten how good he is.
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That is good as I have booked into 2 sessions on the 8th with him!

I too have many weaknesses, but thankfully my shoulders into a XC fence is not one of them! The session was great - I am planning a return visit later in the season (once the bank balance has recovered from the lorry reconstruction :eek:) - happy to share?
 
I was reading this thinking "of COURSE you should be sitting up in the saddle, legs on, a little behind your horse on the approach." However.... Mine is a bit stoppy on the XC, so I generally ride like this, to try to prevent the stop. Sometimes, though, she bounds towards a fence and really takes me - then I know she is not going to stop. So if it's an easy (not technical) fence and she feels like that, I'll stay in two point and let her go. I know her fairly well, though, and I recognise the "we're not stopping" feeling.

I think the reason for this is that I'd like, in an ideal world, to use seat/spur/leg/whip aids heavily only when I really need them, so that they very clearly mean something. In the real world, though, I'm almost always in behind her, making sure that we are definitely going!
 
Yes I probably would. See how the season progresses!

I am currently having a month of austerity to pay for BE - Luckily I do not have to pay for the horse!!
 
LEC said:
Yes I probably would. See how the season progresses!

I am currently having a month of austerity to pay for BE - Luckily I do not have to pay for the horse!!
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I suspect I will be having to severely curtail all activities when the bill comes through....thank god the next two entries are paid for already!
 
Yup, have been told this by more than one instructor- 2 point galloping position on the flat between fences, but to adjust before the fence to being in the saddle, shoulders back and making sure not to get in front of the movement. They both said that being over the shoulder on take off can hinder the horse's ability to really pick up their shoulders and is though could help prevent catching front legs on fences and therefore potentially avoid rotational type falls. (obv not proven, but surely logic does say it is better not to put extra weight/tip your balance over their shoulder if you can avoid it at take off?)

The type of fence dictates how early you need to sit up and ride the fence- eg steeplechase/straightforward single roll top etc, only a stride or two out, complex combination, upright fence, step up etc requiring a different canter gear, correct line etc, then you sit up and set up 3-5 strides out. Also depends on your horse and your experience/confidence, I've found the more confident I got, the less strides it took to set up (therefore less time wasted and better flow).
 
I'm going to buck the trend slightly here and say for me, it depends on the horse and the course I'm riding.

Normally, yes, sit down and 'ride' the last few strides, but be careful not to over use the seat to prevent hollowing.

On sensitive horses though I would just sit light, not entirely in the saddle, keep leg around and allow fence to come to me. Quite a few TBs I have ridden have been a bit like this. Also, out hunting I prefer to stay off their backs as much as possible and so would not sit and ride the last few strides. I have to say though, I don't 'see' a stride... I just tend to leave the front end alone and keep kicking! :p

Rather controversial too... but if I had a horse that didn't 'pick up' as well as I might like, I would come into fences in a more forward seat so that if the horse happened to hit the fence hard and rotate, I would hepefully be thrown clear (learnt this working on a very dodgy dealer yard). Try to steer well clear of these horses now though.
 
Yep I tend to be in a 2 point position until at a stage where I want my horse to be taking notice and "Locking on", where my shoulders come back and I sit in the saddle lightly, and wrap my legs around her. I don't sit bolt upright as then I tend to drive with my seat, which just makes madam lengthen and shoves her into the bottom of the fence, but am in a position where I can easily get my shoulders well back to drive if necessary.

It is interesting having watched quite a few xc clinics, that many people who think they're riding forward to a fence, are actually not balancing at any stage, so end up holding right into the base. The sitting up should help balance a horse, and put you in a position to adjust and then ride forwards in a balanced manner to it and therefore save time and energy as you are helping the horse jump out of their stride a bit better? If you're forward, you are surely just assiting your horse in running into the base of the fence out of balance?

ETA, Ali, very similar to you in regards to not "driving", but cross posted!!!
 
Yes I have been told this before (many times).

The trick is to do it in time and "softly" so you don't interfere with the stride pattern.

But OMG is it hard to do.

IMHO - I actually got my arse in the saddle and sat up 5 strides before the fence on sat, did not change the stride or interfere and it felt fab. I would say I got it really right once on the whole course. Other times I fiddle or over check or stay up the neck.

If anyone has any tips for getting it right - please share!
 
I think this issue has been highlighted for me because of a change in horse! The current one is completely opposite to my previous horse - he does not pull, he is not spooky and has a great rhythm which is why I have been having this issue. The last horse made you sit up he pulled like a train and he was spooky so a good reason to sit up! I guess for me my xc has always been pretty natural so it has been interesting to think about it all in more detail.
 
I'm only a rubbish unaffiliated rider but I'll add something anyway!

My old horse was very bold xc but not the neatest in front so I had to make sure my balance was further back and that I sat up in the last few strides.

However, my new one is wussier xc so I have to make sure I have a really strong seat. I still come off his back between the fences but sit up and shove my lower leg forward coming into the fence. I'm not afraid the kick on with him into the fence as he is a very bouncy welsh cob with a canter that I think is impossible to flatten!!
 
try to just bring shoulders back 5 strides before fence and rebalance then leg on and ride to fence without sitting too deep and making them hollow. Would only keep on galloping to a steeplechase fence. Anything else needs a bit of setting up and riding.
 
Last cross country lesson I had (unforutnately some time ago!) I got told off for sitting too far back and driving too hard with my seat on the approach. Was causing my sensitive TB to hollow through his back and pushing him out of his rhythm. I had to then sit very lightly and upright making sure my shoulders did not drop behind verticle or even stay off his back almost until take off which felt horrendous!! Having said that the help I got with my 2 point position helped me to feel much more secure - I was guilty of sticking my arse out and leaning too far forward whilst trying to stick my lower leg too far forward (sounds attractive I know!!). I had to bring my shoulders much more upright, leg underneath me more and hips further forward. Made me feel a million times more secure and I move around a lot less than I did. No slapping the saddle with my bum anymore!
 
Was fence judging the sunken road at twesledown yesterday and Star gave a perfect demonstration of "sit up shoulders back leg on horse sort it out"... Well deserved placing from my limited vantage point! I sadly am so old I can't help but sit up and kick, but am learning let the fence come to you... It works!.. To many years of 1970's pony club training!:rolleyes:
 
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