Cruel or just horsemanship?

[cazmoreton]

Looking at the comments people have very different opinions...
i think the horse looks pretty scared
was just thinkingg wonderr what you would all think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8Ojqw35zsw

 

[nikkiportia]

Hmmmmm, would wonder what was involved in teaching the horse how to 'dance'. Thats what concerns me.
When the handler has him on the end of the rein, the horse looks like it's weaving really badly!
I don't really like it personally, because it looks unnatural and horse looks far from comfortable.

 

[xnaughtybutnicex]

Couldn't even watch it all. Cruelty IMHO. I agree horse did look frightened.

 

[TicTac]

I think they are a couple of very talented horses (Stallions?) but it is not something I particularly enjoyed watching. Both look like they need a good feed. I did notice that the handler praised the horse on several occasions. The horses , especially the second one looked tense and highly strung but I bet they are pretty well bomb proof!!

If I were in that street watching what was going on, I'd probably try to snatch the horses away from the handlers and take them home!!!

 

[cazmoreton]

yeahhh i'd like to know how long that horse is going to stay sound smashing his legs down on concrete like that,
and if he will stop performing when he isnt sound.

 

[JM07]

over exagerated Dressage.....

the pakistani's probably think Dressage is "odd"...

i did like to see the reassuring stroke down the face the horses got between each "movement"

 

[vickyguns]

did wonder what the knee in the guts was all about? tried watching with an open mind, easy to shout cruelty with a video like that, but just had to wonder what methods were used?

 

[cazmoreton]

Truee, yes i thought it was good to see th epraise

x

 

[xnaughtybutnicex]

I think it is probably the usual thing in that country and that is probably normal to them but probably wouldn't see it in UK or it would be very rare. I saw the knee in the guts too n it made me cringe.

 

[xnaughtybutnicex]

Surely that can't be good for the horses legs though, especially on concrete??

 

[xnaughtybutnicex]

I watched it again trying to be open minded but it didnt work. It still look cruel to me i know they praised it alot but still kneed it in the ribs 3 times and were hitting it with some sort of whip thingy to make it go down on its knees on concrete. Made me sad actually.

feel free to call me a wimp lol

 

[Silverspring]

[ QUOTE ]
Surely that can't be good for the horses legs though, especially on concrete??

[/ QUOTE ]

Neither is piaffe or grade A showjumping but many people ask it of their horse on a regualr basis.

I don't see the problem with this, the horse looks like it's been trained and is responding to the handlers body language. He does look quite highly strung but lots of horses get excited/nervous when competing. It doesn't stop peopel competing just becasue their horse gets wound up at the start line.

 

[Kate260881]

Agree with Silverspring. No more 'cruel' than any of the high end sports that we ask horses to do. And yes, very very cruel.... so much more cruel than say this....



And yes, that is Anky... the triple gold medal winner.

 

[Tia]

Hmm I've seen this video before and was open-minded then and I still am. To be honest, horses are fairly easy to train to do tricks and without further information, we can have no idea whether these training methods were using cruelty or just months and months of reward-training. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but teaching a horse to bow takes little longer than a few hours and that's without hurting the animal, therefore to teach it foot movements would just require the same level of committment over a longer time frame.

 

[Booboos]

I didn't watch all of it as I found it pretty boring, but I don't see much of a problem with it to be honest. Nice to see the handler using praise and from what I saw, whip was used as an aid not punishment (please don't scream at me if it was all different at the end of the video - I didn't see it!!).

 

[xnaughtybutnicex]

It isnt exactly the same. Dressage isn't done on conrete, they aren't kneed in the ribs(that i know of), and they don't make them kneel down on concrete by hitting them.. well, they don't make them kneel on concrete at all but you know what i mean. It's not something i agree with.

 

[Kate260881]

Oh, but jumping horses over 1m40 tracks on ground as hard as concrete is OK... cool.

 

[xnaughtybutnicex]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, but jumping horses over 1m40 tracks on ground as hard as concrete is OK... cool.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say that either, nor would i do it and also don't agree with that so I'm not a hypocrite i just dont agree with it and don't really care if you all think i'm a complete twat for thinking it.

 

[bexandspooky]

I didn't watch all of it, but the bit that i did see i didn't see a huge problem with - again, dont shoot me down dor anything that happened later on.

I didn't see the horse get a knee in the ribs, but is that really any worse than the pony club kicks that some of our horses are subjected to? What about spurs? Does the fact that they can really dig in make them worse? Does your horse never prance on the road when going hunting or on an exciting ride? What about a working trot when out hacking, that is almost certainly putting more shock through your horses legs?

The horse that i saw had no fear of his handler, didn't flinch when praised for his work (could do with a decent farrier, but that is a whole other issue!!)

We just need to be more understanding of other peoples cultures - after all (i am not sure of specifics, so dont jump in the details) alot of indian countries wouldn't dream of killing a cow, let alone eating it - so does that make us the wierd ones?!

 

[xnaughtybutnicex]

The bit where the horse bein kneed was further on quite near the end.

 

[xnaughtybutnicex]

i said i dont agree with it but i did also say that it is likely the usual thing in that country n it would be rare to see that done here. I also said good that they praised it but bad that they kneed it, quite like dressage but done on concrete, people in UK jumping on very hard ground but wouldnt do it myself lol i could be argueing with myself all night hehe thanks for confusing me

but generally overall i don't agree with it n if i saw it in this country would be quite shocked but wouldnt see it in this country

 

[genie]

welfare groups have been campaigning for years to stop the dancing bears....so just cos we all see horses etc we don't think this is so bad?....I think it is barbaric.and, horses being worked too hard over high tracks etc...so what?..do 2 wrongs make a right here?

 

[xnaughtybutnicex]

G..I know that was also my thought when they wrote that people jump on hard ground as if that makes either ok it is the same thing as dancing bears, beating with whips, jumping on hard ground. Come join me G i was starting to feel all on my lonesome here for disagreeing, which TBH has completely shocked me that horse owners are trying to justify it.

 

[Donkeymad]

To me there was no sign of fear, although a little tense. Without knowing how they were trained, I don't think anybody can call it cruel. it is not something I personally would want to see/do, but I have seen far far worse in other countries.

 

[xnaughtybutnicex]

[ QUOTE ]
To me there was no sign of fear, although a little tense. Without knowing how they were trained, I don't think anybody can call it cruel. it is not something I personally would want to see/do, but I have seen far far worse in other countries.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that is just justifying it with a comparison again. There must be a reason that you said you wouldnt want to see or do it and it would most likely be that you don't agree with it.

 

[hellybelly6]

Horrid

Go onto youtube and search for 'how we train horses in egypt' they whip them to do that. Its learned helplessness.

 

[Silverspring]

[ QUOTE ]
is the same thing as dancing bears, beating with whips, jumping on hard ground.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dancing bear = wild animal
Dancing horse = domestic animal

If you think these two are the same tehn you should not own any pets what so ever as you clearly believe domestic animals should be treated in the same manner as wild animals i.e left free to do their own thing!

 

[Natch]

I don't like it. I think the horse looks scared and that to me speaks volumes. I can't imagine that the training was kind. I also think that the stick he was holding may have a concealed spike in the end.

 

[Natch]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is the same thing as dancing bears, beating with whips, jumping on hard ground.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dancing bear = wild animal
Dancing horse = domestic animal

If you think these two are the same tehn you should not own any pets what so ever as you clearly believe domestic animals should be treated in the same manner as wild animals i.e left free to do their own thing!

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I understand it, the main objection people have to dancing bears is that they are taught to do so by being yanked repeatedly by the nosering.

 

[xnaughtybutnicex]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is the same thing as dancing bears, beating with whips, jumping on hard ground.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dancing bear = wild animal
Dancing horse = domestic animal

If you think these two are the same tehn you should not own any pets what so ever as you clearly believe domestic animals should be treated in the same manner as wild animals i.e left free to do their own thing!

[/ QUOTE ]

No it is the same in that it is cruel, dancing bear, dancing horses and i don't believe either were trained in a kind way, do you think horses come out thinking that they are domestic animals. If you think that then surely it would be the same thing as making a hand-raised bear dance. It is the same principle was my point. You don't have any idea how i treat my animals so before you comment how about knowing some facts. NONE of my animals are treated in such a disgusting manor as that and none are left to do their own thing.