CRUEL or KIND? Is it the right thing to 'rescue' horses

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stormox

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from the 'meat man' or 'factory' ? When both the UK and Ireland are swamped with unwanted horses, being dumped, starved etc., is it right, when their owner has decided to do the right thing and have them slaughtered (far kinder, IMO, that just leaving them to their own devices in some boggy wet field),is it right some rescue society, or well-meaning person ,should step in to "rescue them from their cruel fate"? I've seen plenty of adverts for horses/ponies on pre-loved etc- 'free to good home, rescued from the meat-man'. And I have seen on FB recently of a rescue society in Ireland posting pictures of about 50 horses they have bought to save them being killed, that they are now desperately trying to find foster homes for. OK, I agree its a shame, but they were hardly the better end of the market, and included mares in foal (probably to their own relative, or some scrawny colt as they were all running together). Is this not adding to the problem of horse welfare in the long run?
 
I agree with you entirely. I spent a considerable amount of time at a UK abattoir on 'horse day' and the horses were handled in a calm and professional manner. They were unloaded into pens as a group where they had straw, hay and water, and then they were lead individually into the kill room unless they were unhandled. There was no stress, no drama, and you could 100% guarantee those horses weren't going to get caught up in the downward spiral of neglect being passed around at sales before ending up at spindles farm.

Quite frankly I would say any unwanted/neglected horses without a future 'use' should be put down. The horse knows absolutely nothing about it and nothing bad can happen to them ever again. Euthanasia is a emotive subject for humans and we have to remember horses only live in the moment.
 
OP's is the most sensible post I've seen on here in I don't know how long (bar the mention of 'rescue societies' - proper societies/charities do rescue 'properly' but I understand you may mean the non-registered, non-funded and very local one or two-man bands - not knocking the actual intention).

I know there are exceptions to every rule where people pick up something destined for slaughter that then turns into the next super-cared-for HOYS champ, and I know the people who do this are generally well-meaning (apart from the likes of one Beeston customer) but mostly, it just makes me bang my head on the desk.

You did not 'rescue' it. You are a buyer who paid money to someone who was going to give it a different but not inappropriate ending. 'Rescue' means actually taking a horse out of a neglectful or cruel home (which going for slaughter is not) and proceeding in the most appropriate way, be that rehoming, sanctuaries or PTS. We have too many horses in this country; we cannot cope and it needs to stop.

We have lost sight of the basic meaning of a word. Too often, it's almost an oxymoron.
 
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No its not cruel at all, is taking cattle to the slaughter house or sheep to be slaughtered for our Sunday roasts, we dont think that is cruel, well I dont anyhow. They are part of the food chain. Some people are too emotionally attached to horses, but the fact is that some are destined for the meat market.

the problem is the people who are overbreding non-quality stock, thinking their doing a good deed, but in reality, the ponies are just going to be passed from pillar to post in homes as unwanted horses / ponies.

The government need to pull their finger out and make better rules and enforcement on people over breeding and breeding rubbish.

Also, I recently went up to a local charity called HAPPA and had a look around the horses they had in. I would say 50% of the horses were too unwell to be every fostered/loaned, many of them had serious conditions that meant they would never serve a purpose... the 1st thing that popped into my head wasnt 'Oh this charity is doing a brilliant job' but was 'what a waste of money', they horses should be put out of their missery and the charity do something more benifical with the money.

Rant over
 
I know of a charity in Ireland that has rehomed with absolutely no home check. The 2 horses were going to live in a field about 150km away from the owner. The owner "usually" visits every fortnight and the neighbours can "keep an eye on them". I thought it was a bizarre decision.
The horses in question were lovely, so it would have been a difficult decision to send them to the factory. However unless there are proper home checks in place how do they know the horses are actually going to have a good life in the new home?

I dont think its cruel to rescue, but its not necessarily the right decision.
 
Well I previously had a rescue horse saved from the meat man. Personally I didn't find giving a thoroughbred you had a rotten life a lovely 15 year retirement instead of being slaughtered.
 
I do agree with you, though in the distant past I 'rescued' a horse - his other option was the meat man, and he was in a complete state. But he was such a kind thing and I was a sentimental teenager, I couldn't let it happen. I kept him for the rest of his time, and he had a good (if sedate) life and was very happy. Is your issue with people 'rescuing' horses and then not taking responsibility for them, or simply rescuing them at all? Maybe it's not objectively the best way forward to tackle the over-breeding issue, but it's definitely not cruel.

I think realistically you have to take a step back and look at the greater good - putting your money towards equine charities and education is better for the equine population at large, rather than helping one individual horse, and if you do want to help the individual you should go through the registered charities.

BUT I am glad I did it, and would probably do it again. I find the people that criticise that decision tend to be the ones who actually haven't really done anything for an equine charity, whether giving a substantial donation or taking on one of their horses. I do think sending a horse to slaughter is cruel, but then I also think sending cattle and sheep to slaughter is cruel - it is a horrible, noisy journey and a stressful end. However, like you have said, it is better than being left to starve in a field for years.

Also, really, the ones at fault here are surely those breeding substandard horses, trying to sell elderly horses who have more than fulfilled their duty, and not gelding their colts. I think people are starting to be more blunt with others when they say 'oh, Bessie's gone lame so I've decided to breed her' or 'I don't think I'll geld this colt of unknown breeding, instead I'll turn him out with a bunch of yearling fillies'.

I don't know if any of you are on the various horsy facebook pages, but the number of people breeding crappy unproven ponies is astounding. I think that they, the unmanaged moorland ponies, and the failed racehorses make the majority of horses that go to slaughter.
 
Yes, minimilton, I know someone who rehomed a horse from a charity (that was on its way to meatman before said charity 'saved' it) , they chose it purely from the description- a 14.2 4yr old, and the photographs on the website. No home check was done, luckily they are knowledgable people who run their own yard, because when it was delivered it was a two-yr-old with one testicle!!
 
Agree, Pigeon. Think OP's point was pseudo-rescuing (where it's ill thought-through and people want to act as charities or sanctuaries but are not able to and/or expect to be able to rehome them) just compounds a serious problem. In some cases it most certainly is cruel, but in general, perhaps 'inappropriate' or even 'unhelpful' or 'dangerous' would have been better words.
 
Not read all the replies but agree there are a lot worse fates for animals than pts.

I believe there is a cull coming ( needed?...) due to the large number of indiscriminately bred horses out there.

There is nothing wrong with 'rescuing' a horse from a neglectful situation or slaughter IF you can afford the time and money to support the animal properly and ensure it's quality of life. No animal should be 'saved' to then start asking for donations towards its keep and care and/or to then try to pass it on.

Slightly off topic but having read homes 4 horses for the first time this morning there are clearly a lot of horses needing pts in this country... When you take on any animal you have to understand that you are likely to outlive it (& have plans in place in case you don't) and that you should have the resources to pts when that time comes. That site is full of old and lame horses that are " companion only" that owners are looking to slope off; usually to enable them to get another riding horse. People need to man up and take responsibility for their animals and stop breeding!
 
I think you should only take them on if you are going to keep them or make them a more saleable asset.

Recently got a yearling colt from the meat man(£150 in total) nothing wrong with him, just ended up at a low end sale with mangey legs and a bit under condition. He gets handled tonnes, will be gelded in the spring, has seen a vet to sort out his mankyness etc. He is standing at 15hh already so is going to be a big chap. He will probably go up for sale in the summer as a well conditioned, well handled mannerly 2yo gelding who no doubt will get a lot more attention. If he doesn't sell he will stay put until he's older, be backed and hacked and then popped on the market as a broken but green youngster. If he doesn't sell again then he will be given a proper job and be out seeing the world showing people what he can do. If he never sells then he never sells.

He wasn't purchased just to 'save him' I have no problem with horses going for meat. He was purchased because he's to good to be a meat horse.
 
Honestly I think it makes matters worse when well meaning people 'rescue' horses off the meat man. I know of someone who does this, constantly gets them in the hope they will become riding ponies for her child but they never work out, they all have so many issues, then she sells them as they aren't suitable. Don't get me wrong she cares for them but these horses/ponies would be better off at slaughter instead of being passed around with all the issues them have.
 
Well, I didn't really have a point, or an issue,I was wondering what peoples opinions are, and I hope some of the bigger rescues might reply. I'm not against rescuing, and equine charities benefit in my will, and one horse is neither here or there. I'm thinking about the 'bigger picture'. What is best for the equine population in the long run. There are a lot of semi-feral herds of substandard horses - if the owner of one of these herds cant sell and cant afford to keep and look after them, is it not a brave and correct decision to have them killed humanely? Why should a charity try and rescue them? And the same goes for a lot of TBs that have no future in racing, or aren't sound. There just aren't suitable homes for all these horses..........
 
It is not cruel to rescue a horse but neither is humane slaughter. The thing is why bother doing anything at all ever? Why bother saving anything dolphins, whales, polar bear it is all going to die in the end anyway? It really is a case of where you draw the line. If you want to and can save a life then why not? The day we all start to think taking the life of a living being has no meaning would be a very sad day indeed.

This story sums it up for me.

"A young girl was walking along a beach upon which thousands of starfish had been washed up during a terrible storm. When she came to each starfish, she would pick it up, and throw it back into the ocean. People watched her with amusement.

She had been doing this for some time when a man approached her and said, “Little girl, why are you doing this? Look at this beach! You can’t save all these starfish. You can’t begin to make a difference!”

The girl seemed crushed, suddenly deflated. But after a few moments, she bent down, picked up another starfish, and hurled it as far as she could into the ocean. Then she looked up at the man and replied, “Well, I made a difference to that one!”

The old man looked at the girl inquisitively and thought about what she had done and said. Inspired, he joined the little girl in throwing starfish back into the sea. Soon others joined, and all the starfish were saved."
 
I don't have a problem with horses going to the "meat man", as long as that meat man is in the UK. Better a swift and humane end than they are left to suffer, and sadly there is a surplus of horses right now (and of course, most of them have little or no value). Yes, I'd much rather rescue them and give them a nice field to spend the rest of their days in, but I'm not a multi millionaire.

I was once asked to sign a petition against horse slaughter in the UK. You're kidding right? I gave this person a piece of my mind and suggested they look up alternatives. Part of my dad's job as a DEFRA vet is to check abattoirs (and one of his first ever jobs as a vet was working in a horse abattoir), if substandard practices were going on at them he would act.

Ultimately, it's a personal decision to rescue a horse from the "meat man", but I agree with vieshot- only do it if you're offering a home for life or increase their value. Or if they aren't old/crippled/dangerous. I think a lot of people just don't understand abattoirs/where their meat comes from/why they are vegan (one vegan once told my bf that he was killing an unborn chick by eating eggs...she clearly had absolutely no idea that chickens lay eggs with or without a cockerel around!).

Pigeon said:
I think realistically you have to take a step back and look at the greater good - putting your money towards equine charities and education is better for the equine population at large, rather than helping one individual horse, and if you do want to help the individual you should go through the registered charities.
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I follow "Prince Fluffy Kareem" on FB, as well as SPANA and the Brooke (both of whom I give monthly to). There is a distinct difference in attitude between the supporters of PFK (taken as a whole) compared to SPANA and the Brooke. I've seen people commenting on PFK saying they'll adopt one of the horses they get in and bring it back to the UK/whatever country they live in.

So they'd rescue one horse, for its place to be immediately taken by another, with the owner still not knowing any better. But the supporter will feel all warm inside, because they've helped one horse. However, if they donated those thousands of pounds they'd spend bringing it over, they could treat hundreds of horses, and educate hundreds of owners. That's why I like SPANA and the Brooke- patching these people's horses up for free is all good and nice, but if you're not educating them that some of their practices are medieval, you're never going to change their methods.
 
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It is only kind to rescue if the situation they are going to exceeds the one they have just come from. It must have a good level of understanding and care for its charge, and the ability and finances to enable that care.
Otherwise its better off going for meat.
 
Saving them from the slaughterhouse is fine if they have a definite and secure future to go but surely it's more important to rescue them from situations like Spindles Farm and Caerphilly than from the slaughterhouse?
And they certianly shouldn't be rescued from the slaughterman only to end up in places like Spindles Farm.
 
if you pay for it you are not rescuing it (same with puppy farming) you are paying someone to put it where you bought it from-another will take its place,

if you can give them safe 'passage' for life then good on you but dont shout 'i rescued it', you didn't you bought it (usually cheap), if you 'rescue' it to produce and sell you are buying for profit and have no control to stop the animal ending up in a worse situation than the one you got it from. If you buy it cos you felt sorry for it or fell in love and want to give it a good home for life or some tenderness or kindness for its last moments on the planet fine but personally I think we need a cull to prevent the suffering that is on the rise in this country
 
If there was a 'like' button, I would have pressed it for pretty much every post. Sadly, that in itself is a problem - we are all singing from the same hymn sheet, and we need to educate those well-meaning, but utterly ignorant, individuals who still think that every horse should live out its days in a mythical 'forever home', until it curls up and dies suddenly of old age. :(
 
On the fence with this thread. I don't agree with people saying they 'rescued' ponies when they bought them (sometimes with the intention to sell them on).
There are a lot worse fates than slaughter, especially in this economical climate. I see no problem with ponies being slaughtered IF it is done humanely.
 
I have rescued lots of horses from French meat market they have gone to good homes and are mostly still with their same owners. I don't regret it had a lot of nice horses if they weren't they were pts or I keep them I still have one I don't think imo safe enough to rehome. I have never had one with tendon or any leg problem kissing spine or any major problems and once got over there fears very loving. I haven't done it this year as there are to many unwanted horses around. But love doing it and will again at some point.
 
If you really want to help, go to a reputable equine charity and rehome from there, so they then gain a space to take in another abused or neglected horse. You get a horse that has been rescued itself, and as long as you go to a reputable charity you'll have their support and help. And they can take another horse in from somewhere like Spindles Farm. Win-win. Or if you can't rehome, many have sponsor a horse schemes, or you could donate, or fundraise, or get involved campaigning. But don't give people money for neglecting their horses, which is what anyone who buy such a horse to 'save' it is doing.
 
I've worked with a lot of 'rescues' whether it's dogs, parrots or horses, and mostly 'rescue' boils down to an unwanted animal being granted succour and a home where it will be cherished again. Yeah, you do get people intending to do right only to prolong the animal's suffering, and it's not something I'd wish on any creature. I don't have much truck with people who consider it their mission in life to be a rescuer either, since the people who make a big thing of it tend to be incredibly irresponsible and unaware of the burden they are taking on.

But what is far worse for me, and absolutely intolerable, is to end a horse's life simply because you have no further use for it. You bought the horse, you have a duty to see it through it's natural life or rehome it with someone who will. Sending unwanted horses to abattoir is too convenient by half. It's a cyclical problem where the equine industry produces a lot of 'waste' horses, for want of a better word, and there are a lot of needlessly wasteful practices that continue on today and will continue forever so long as it remains convenient to have unwanted horses disposed of like you would your old sofa for little to no cost.

It's inhumane. Abattoir should be reserved for animals who are suffering or have zero chance of ever being rehomed. Otherwise, owners should take responsibility for the life they bought and paid for, and wouldn't that be a nice fairytale world to live in?
 
I think people get far too hung up on the definition of 'rescue'. Yes, there are terrible private homes (including some wealthy and experienced ones), and many horses that would be better off dead - but...

If someone buys a foal at auction, which would otherwise go straight for meat, then puts time and money into giving it a good home (whether themselves or by producing it for sale), why do people have such a problem with that? It's most certainly rescue as far as that foal is concerned. Since the price is the same whether it goes to the lions or not, it has little effect on the market or level of production.

My field is full of cheap/free colts and 'projects'. They'll never win HOYS, but they all have a life they wouldn't have otherwise. My children have learned how to handle, gentle and train them, and they pay us back 1000 fold in love and fun.

However, I do agree that palming off old / sick horses rather than PTS is unforgiveable.
 
fattylumpkin said:
But what is far worse for me, and absolutely intolerable, is to end a horse's life simply because you have no further use for it. You bought the horse, you have a duty to see it through it's natural life or rehome it with someone who will. Sending unwanted horses to abattoir is too convenient by half.
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See this I disagree with. Of course in a perfect world all horses would live out their days in a nice green field with plenty of friends. But in this not perfect world people's circumstances change and they are can longer "see it through it's natural life" and as soon as you "rehome it with someone who will" you are opening up the possibility of the horse being neglected, abused, sold and so on. Far better to act responsibly and safeguard the horse's future by having it humanely euthanased, preferably at home but if that's not possible then there are far worse fates than an abattoir.
 
pennyturner said:
My field is full of cheap/free colts and 'projects'. They'll never win HOYS, but they all have a life they wouldn't have otherwise.
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My own point is that that's great and not a problem, but it's the cases not like this that are a problem.

And I don't think there's anything amiss with looking at how 'rescue' is being used these days - if nothing else, in a lot of cases it can actually undermine the word when used in serious/'actual' rescue cases.
 
I think it was Woody Allen who said, "It is not the passing but the manner of the passing".

Rescuing seems to be more about people than animals to my mind. Death is not a particularly nice subject but provided the passing is painless and stress free, I don't really see the problem. All living things are going to die one day. And that is from someone who has already had his allocated three score years and ten.

Having said that, and being a farmer all too familiar with death, I never take an animal of mine to the vet or abattoir (unless for human consumption) but do it myself. Does that sound cruel? I've shot, fished, and hunted all my life and am quite familiar with firearms. I must have shot hundreds of deer and provided it is a clean kill, think nothing of it, for or against. I certainly wouldn't pay to do it as it holds no pleasure for me, though I have been paid to do it when it is simply a job.

This may seem extraordinarily callous. But I don't see it like that. I go down to the field and sit with my rifle and when the horse is peacefully grazing, and in the perfect position, I put a bullet from a high powered rifle into it's brain. Without exception, they go down a like a pricked balloon and there is no further movement. I've seen it done by the vet with an injection, which I agree is humane, but just prefer it my way. My old dogs go the same way, though I've let a few special favourites die of old age. I'm not sure I did the last any favours.

I have mixed feelings about "rescues". I've taken a few and most had problems an owner obviously could not cope with so they passed the problem on, always undeclared and it is usually sheep chasing/killing. The French bulldog that killed the child recently was a rescue. Of course, it never gave it's owners, or previous owners, any indication that it might attack a child... Yeah, right. If they don't know, or want to know, the chances are, they won't see. And they've "saved" an animal, haven't they?
 
Dry Rot said:
I think it was Woody Allen who said, "It is not the passing but the manner of the passing".

Rescuing seems to be more about people than animals to my mind. Death is not a particularly nice subject but provided the passing is painless and stress free, I don't really see the problem. All living things are going to die one day. And that is from someone who has already had his allocated three score years and ten.

Having said that, and being a farmer all too familiar with death, I never take an animal of mine to the vet or abattoir (unless for human consumption) but do it myself. Does that sound cruel? I've shot, fished, and hunted all my life and am quite familiar with firearms. I must have shot hundreds of deer and provided it is a clean kill, think nothing of it, for or against. I certainly wouldn't pay to do it as it holds no pleasure for me, though I have been paid to do it when it is simply a job.

This may seem extraordinarily callous. But I don't see it like that. I go down to the field and sit with my rifle and when the horse is peacefully grazing, and in the perfect position, I put a bullet from a high powered rifle into it's brain. Without exception, they go down a like a pricked balloon and there is no further movement. I've seen it done by the vet with an injection, which I agree is humane, but just prefer it my way. My old dogs go the same way, though I've let a few special favourites die of old age. I'm not sure I did the last any favours.

I have mixed feelings about "rescues". I've taken a few and most had problems an owner obviously could not cope with so they passed the problem on, always undeclared and it is usually sheep chasing/killing. The French bulldog that killed the child recently was a rescue. Of course, it never gave it's owners, or previous owners, any indication that it might attack a child... Yeah, right. If they don't know, or want to know, the chances are, they won't see. And they've "saved" an animal, haven't they?
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That seems the perfect way to go - grazing peacefully and unaware one minute, dead the next. I think I would chose that for myself if I was totally past it - except I'd be eating cake.
 
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