Cruelty/Abuse videos... so unbalanced!!

PapaFrita

PapaFrita

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Come on peeps!! When was the last time we saw a PETA video that depicted horseracing in a balanced light, or a LACS video that didn't show bloodied sabs and punch ups? I mean, right now I could compile a video showing how cruel eventing is. Starting of course with the undeniably cruel AT, then I would show Icare D’Auzay being impaled with a flag pole (edited so we wouldn't see him being pulled up straight away or the vets rushing over to treat him) and Skwal collapsing or lying dead on the ground... Not to mention lots and lots of falls although I'd never show the horse getting up and trotting away....
Yes, all horrible images, and ones that would horrify anyone unfamiliar with eventing and the actual events. Yet the only act of true cruelty was ATs. Why do we get sooooo riled up about a rodeo video when the footage is probably compiled over years and years, showing only the worst offences, and cleverly edited to boot. And it's still, what? 6 minutes?
I do NOT condone animal cruelty in ANY way but lets get some perspective; all this "Americans are evil", "cowboys should rot in hell" is unfair and beneath us. YES, lets get the perpetrators of cruelty punished, but please lets not assume that what we see on YouTube, made by someone who is campaigning to get a sport banned, to be accurate.
 
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all this "Americans are evil", "cowboys should rot in hell" is unfair and beneath us.

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On the contrary, I believe it shows these few members for what they really are, I'm afraid.
 
If I truly believed that, I'd be very very sad.
Course I AM an eternal optimist!
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Exactly, though the images in these videos are terrible they are in no means representative of what actually happens. These videos are made for a reason, and that is usually some sort of propaganda for an "animal rights charity". I wish people would stop for a second and think about why the video was made and how it was edited instead of rushing in hysterically and condemning everyone who participates.
 
Yes, the majority of these videos only show the bad things, but they cant edit the fact that these people do these horrible things - the rodeo video showed VERY rough handling, which DID happen - it wasn't edited to make it look that way. No, i'm not ever going to tar all Americans with one brush, but i will hate the people in the clips!
 
Well, I will start by saying that I do shrink from watching videos like this one. I know full well what goes on, and I don't like seeing it.
However, I have read the thread about the rodeo one (but only watched a little of the video) and I am delighted to see that PapaFrita has put a sensible, balanced viewpoint.
Of course it is easy to manipulate a video to show anything in a poor light. As PF says, there is much cruelty in the world, but there is much kindness also.
I didn't like the tone of the thread at all.
 
Anyone that bases their entire view of something on a youtube video is very naive. Things can be edited either to promote or condemn something depending on the person that makes the video - PETA is a prime example of this. I despise animal cruelty and think many of the animals were treated roughly in that video but it is unwise to form an opinion solely based on that video.
 
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Yes, the majority of these videos only show the bad things, but they cant edit the fact that these people do these horrible things - the rodeo video showed VERY rough handling, which DID happen - it wasn't edited to make it look that way. No, i'm not ever going to tar all Americans with one brush, but i will hate the people in the clips!

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No one is saying the events didn't happen but editing can make a huge difference. As PF said, you could make a video showing Le Samurai going lame, Skwall dying, Icare d'Auzay impaling himself, Daisy Dick's horse slipping on the flat etc and if you took those clips out of context and without knowing the full story it makes eventing look equally horrific.
 
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Yes, the majority of these videos only show the bad things, but they cant edit the fact that these people do these horrible things - the rodeo video showed VERY rough handling, which DID happen - it wasn't edited to make it look that way. No, i'm not ever going to tar all Americans with one brush, but i will hate the people in the clips!

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OK, yes, they did happen; the horse WAS bitten on the ear and the calves WERE kicked, but did the horses fall because they were beaten, or did they just... well... fall, much as they do eventing, NH racing, in polo, etc etc?
 
Yes, it doesn't show a balanced view and Papafrita is right about that....but it does happen, proved by the video footage this was not an accident like the things that happened to Skwal and Icare D'Auzy, they really were pure accidents. I think it is completely unfair to compare the rodeo video to the flag pole incident. Banging a horses head against bars is NOT an accident but being stabbed in the chest with a pole was nobody's fault.

I agree that this does not show what most rodeo things are like BUT you don't see things like this happening in eventing, if a rider was banging their horses head against a lorry, they would probably be banned from the sport forever and possibly imprisoned.

I am not saying that all rodeo things are this bad but if they can make 10 minutes of pure evil film then it is hardly something that happened as a one off and i do think that there particular people should "rot in hell"
 
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BUT you don't see things like this happening in eventing

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Aww I'm sorry ...... but I have seen things go on in England at shows which have made me squirm....no other word for these goings on but utter cruelty!

You need to open your eyes if you think this doesn't go on in all walks of life, because I can assure you, it does.
 
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Yes, it doesn't show a balanced view and Papafrita is right about that....but it does happen, proved by the video footage this was not an accident like the things that happened to Skwal and Icare D'Auzy, they really were pure accidents

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Yes, WE know that the Skwal and Icare D'Auzy incidents were accidents, but Joe Bloggs doesn't. And how can we be 100% sure that NONE of the events on the rodeo vids were accidents if we don't know the nature of the sport.

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I think it is completely unfair to compare the rodeo video to the flag pole incident. Banging a horses head against bars is NOT an accident but being stabbed in the chest with a pole was nobody's fault.

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But I didn't compare them. I was saying that while cruelty DOES exist (AT for instance- let's compare THAT to the headbanging, shall we? although personally I think AT was even more cruel) BUT there are plenty of other incidents in the rodeo video that we can't immediately and DEFINITELY categorise as cruelty; the horses falling over when bucking for instance.
If seen plenty of people beat the sh:t out of their horse to get them to load and I've read plenty of threads on HHO written by people who've witnessed the same kind of treatment.. and then some.

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I agree that this does not show what most rodeo things are like BUT you don't see things like this happening in eventing, if a rider was banging their horses head against a lorry, they would probably be banned from the sport forever and possibly imprisoned.

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Riiiiight. Are you quite sure they would be banned? AT is still competing, and by all accounts it's only in Europe that people have expressed any true outrage as to what she's done.
Let's go back to the loading example shall we? How many people have been banned for doing that, or hiding their horse for refusing?
If you followed eventing/polo/SJing around for ANY length of time you'd be able to compile a video that was LONGER than 10 minutes on cruelty. I'm POSITIVE that any eventer on HHO can tell you horror stories of how some horses are trained, much as I could tell you about SJing, or Polo, etc etc.
You're wrong to assume that EVERYTHING in the rodeo video WAS a true act of cruelty.

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I am not saying that all rodeo things are this bad but if they can make 10 minutes of pure evil film then it is hardly something that happened as a one off and i do think that there particular people should "rot in hell"

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I don't think the 'pure evil' in that video amounted to anything like 10 minutes. I don't dispute for a second that cruelty DOES exist in rodeo much as it does in all equestrian sports.
I understand it upsetting you, the images were horrible, but that's exactly what it was made for!
 
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If a horse is physically and mentally broken down to exhaustion it may and can faint .

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It may and call also lose its balance, fall and be winded.
We could go on like this forever, you know
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Look, I KNOW cruelty exists in ALL aspects of horse ownership/competition/management, etc, and it should be stopped, BUT these videos only show the WORST of everything and sometimes not EVEN that because of clever editing/speeding up/slowing down etc.
The point I was trying to make is that if I can, off the top of my head, think of a string of eventing incidents that were accidents but could easily be made to look like cruelty, who's to say the same can't be done for rodeo?
 
Fair play, PF * smiles*(sorry I dare not use all this forums tools as if I try to it keeps telling me there is an error Arghh!) I do see your point, truly I do *gives a friendly wink* . I've popped a reply on Tia's post too saying the same. I'll get off the roundabout now as they make me dizzy !
 
I agree 100% with PF here. If you look hard enough you can make out ANY equine sport to be cruel - yes even eventing. I have seen some horrific things in both eventing, showjumping and dressage at the highest end of these sports here in the UK - but to say that happens all the time would be wrong. These are the minority and the minority of cruelty should NOT paint the entire sport as cruel. I think people that assume the entire sport is cruel after watching a propaganda video are very nieve. Yes these things did happen - but they happen rarely and certainly not by the majority of the people involved in the sport.
 
I thought exactly the same when watching it. Yes it is sad but obviously edited and done to make it all look 10 times worse. Think of any horse disapline (sp) and I'm sure we could make a video just like this rodeo one.
 
I have to say it is quite ridiculous when people say comments like ALL Americans are evil and ALL cowboys are cruel. Come on thats like saying because what AT did, all eventers are cruel.

These videos are made to be biased and make others biased. My comment on the other post was to the video, those men and NOT to all rodeo. Everything, including fox hunting, show jumping, etc, etc, has a bad cruel side. Unfortunately when the bad stuff does happen thats what gets into the media!
 
Just a thought.
If participating in all equine sports increases the risk of injury/death in the horse (compared to a non ridden animal) where do we draw the line at an acceptable risk?
How should we calculate the risks involved - annual mortality per horse days per discipline?
Does the benefit to the human outweigh the risk to the horse?
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Yes, i know cruelty happens in all equestrian sports and yes i know that some of the footage in the video may not be cruelty but if it was just exhaustion then surely the animal shouldn't have been there in the first place
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Injury to the horses happens in all sports, take the Barbaro incidence but i sometimes get he impression from rodeo that they don't give a sh*t if the horse is injured, not ALL cowboys are like this and i never, ever said that BUT lots are. I think you would find more heartless people in rodeoing than in eventing, but that may just be my personal view, though i know that it is one that others share. I agree that you do get cruel people in eventing though.

Maybe sometimes people got too far trying to get their horse to load and this is unacceptable, but i cannot think of a reason for someone to bang a horses head against metal bars, that, for me, is far more inexcusable than giving the horse a smack if ti won't go in the lorry.

Have to say that this is probably the one thing about HHO that i don't like, (apart from error messages
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) that everyone jumps on the bandwagon. If you look at Lizzie's original post, the majority of people said that they thought it was cruel,unacceptable, that the cowboys should rot in hell etc etc But on this post almost everyone who has posted has agreed with PF 100%
I just don't get it
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I think you would find more heartless people in rodeoing than in eventing

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How many rodeo riders do you know? And how many event-riders do you know?

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not ALL cowboys are like this and i never, ever said that BUT lots are

[/ QUOTE ] Ah it seems you know lots of rodeo riders and cowboys?
 
No I don't. I have never seen a rodeo because i know that i would not enjoy seeing horses buck, so many people on this forum have told many people that 99% of the time a horse bucks out of pain and do horses ever have their ears pricked and looking alert and well when they are bucking?? (I am asking this as a genuine question as, like i said, i have never seen one) I have watched the eventing sport and although accidents happen, which i'm sure they do in rodeoing too, lots of the horses gallop round the xc and jump the fences Enjoying themselves, you can tell this by the feel of them, the look of their eyes and ears and you just know. For example, did Headly Britannia look unhappy performing in dressage, flying round xc or pinging sj??????I don't think so.

You can kind of tell that there are more heartless people in rodeoing by that video, hmmm, the people bashing the horses head against the bars....are you telling me they aren't cruel? Are you telling me you have seen things quite that tragic in eventing? (Again, a genuine question as i have never seen ANY cruelty in eventing (apart from AT) (though I'm sure some goes on AT for example))And there was definately more than one person in that rodeo video.
 
Hmm so you don't know any rodeo riders or any event riders....you have never been to a rodeo and you have "watched" eventing; not too greatly qualified to be making these judgements and accusations then really.

I used to event in the UK and yes I can definitely assure you that I have seen dreadful cruelty at some competitions.

I now compete in Team Penning...yep western riding chasing little cows about an arena.
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Of course sometimes the little cows with the big horns chase you back!
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I can only reiterate; I have never ever seen anyone at any of the penning competitions abuse either their horses or the cattle. I have been to tonnes and tonnes of rodeos and never seen anyone abuse the animals. I have been to many eventing competitions and most of the time there isn't abuse going on, but I have to admit yes I most certainly HAVE seen it!

You are of course welcome to your channel-visioned view - perhaps once you've experienced a bit more of actual life, by that I mean viewing these things in person then you may find that your learning will increase. Nothing is black and white I'm afraid.....and as I say once again (gosh I've said that a lot on here today) you will find cruelty in all walks of life.
 
As for the guy pushing the horse against the bars; well I cannot comment on that to be honest as I have absolutely no idea what the horse did previously or afterwards. What I will say is that the clip is re-run which makes it appear that he consistently pushed the horse over and over again; whether he did in actual fact, we do not know.

Why do you think he pushed the horse into the bars?
 
Tbh i don't know why he did that either, but i can't think of anything that the horse would have done to deserve it.

I don't know any rodeo riders but do know some event riders and dressage riders.

But you didn't say whether the horses actually look happy when they buck?? And, please don't take offence by this, but why do you go and watch horses buck? I think I am missing the attraction
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Yes, i know cruelty happens in all equestrian sports and yes i know that some of the footage in the video may not be cruelty but if it was just exhaustion then surely the animal shouldn't have been there in the first place
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I don't believe I mentioned exhaustion. I said a horse could lose its balance, fall and be winded.

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Injury to the horses happens in all sports, take the Barbaro incidence but i sometimes get he impression from rodeo that they don't give a sh*t if the horse is injured,

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So it's just an impression, not an opinion based on having witnessed an actual rodeo
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not ALL cowboys are like this and i never, ever said that BUT lots are. I think you would find more heartless people in rodeoing than in eventing, but that may just be my personal view, though i know that it is one that others share. I agree that you do get cruel people in eventing though.

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What makes rodeoing worse than eventing then, or showjumping (where many horses get rapped) or showing (where many horses and ponies are overfed)?

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Maybe sometimes people got too far trying to get their horse to load and this is unacceptable, but i cannot think of a reason for someone to bang a horses head against metal bars, that, for me, is far more inexcusable than giving the horse a smack if ti won't go in the lorry.

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I wasn't talking about a smack, I was talking about a sound beating (which I HAVE witnessed first hand at more than one show) The rodeo video showing the horse's head banged against the bars could WELL be an act of cruelty (IMO the video is on a loop and shows one bang several times; NOT acceptable but if true would prove the video is dishonest at best)

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Have to say that this is probably the one thing about HHO that i don't like, (apart from error messages
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) that everyone jumps on the bandwagon. If you look at Lizzie's original post, the majority of people said that they thought it was cruel,unacceptable, that the cowboys should rot in hell etc etc But on this post almost everyone who has posted has agreed with PF 100%

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That's because I talk sense. After the initial gut reaction of being shocked and distressed by seeing animals fall and be thrown to the ground, when put into a different perspective and compared to sports we know and understand in the proper context, it is clear that the video could perfectly well show certain incidents that are no 'crueler' than things that happen in eventing, showjumping, etc
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I just don't get it
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That's a shame. I thought I was being very rational
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I can think of many reasons why the handler would have pushed a horse whilst it is in stocks. I have stocks on my farm and you don't let any animal mess about in there or you are looking at big injuries.

Well I can't say whether they "look" happy or not as bucking horses have their heads in the sand for the 8 seconds they are competing, LOL!! They certainly look happy when their owner comes and feeds them afterwards though - or does that not count?

I go and watch horses bucking because I find it far more interesting than watching some less than mediocre riders plodding around and around a ring in walk, trot and canter - sorry but I find that totally boring to watch. Each to their own though.
 
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