Cruelty - Waitrose free range ducks

At a friend's party last year I got talking to a pig farmer who reared pigs for Waitrose. He said their welfare checks were better than any other supermarket that he had supplied..

As for the "local farm shops". Where I like the idea of them, around us, they are run by the most self centred greedy farms in the area, who know how to market their "locally reared" produce to the yummy mummy brigade that trot off feeling good about their "green" ethics. The farmers don't give a stuff about the animals. So what if the produce is reared locally? Its how it lived and how far it travelled to abbatoir that bothers me.

Having rescued some ex-battery hens six months ago, it was sad how little instinct for normal life they had - only in the last month have they finally become free range - choosing to be outside wandering about!

As someone said, many of our poultry comes from abroad - I work for a major airline, and a large percentage of our cargos (on passenger planes) is live chicks.

As someone said, most people don't give a thought to anything other than themselves - and therefore price. I always buy freerange meat, but its so much more expensive (although so much nicer too). It is so true that it is us the consumer that dictates how the animals are reared and killed...
 
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problem not many abatoirs around in northamptonshire use to be Buswells at blisworth, baxters at wooten, ABP at wellingborough all gone so have to travel further no choice
 
Alec Swan said:
I'm sorry to tell you that the practices viewed within the duck catching vid, are common practice, within all aspects of the poultry industry.

When you buy your cheap poultry from your local supermarket, regardless of the bird species, then you demand ever cheaper food. There's only one way that cheap food can be produced, and that's by cutting corners.

Are you aware, that all commercially produced poultry, from the day that they hatch, are fed a permanent diet of antibiotics? Is this why we, as humans, have complaints, which are ever more resistant to antibiotics?

Poultry are kept in buildings, containing many thousands of their kind, and the deformed and dying, are left to their own devices, and still the Foods Standards Agency turn a blind eye to the way that our commercial poultry are produced.

Who's responsible for this? You are. Your constant demand for cheaper meat, and your support of the supermarkets fosters such practices, despite what they will claim.

So Waitrose have distanced themselves from the suppliers filmed, have they? If they took the same action, against all those suppliers who could be filmed, carrying out atrocities, they'd end up with no suppliers at all!!

Carrying a duck, by its neck, is actually acceptable. It sounds awful, but no harm comes to the bird. The really disgraceful displays occur before the ducks are "caught", and before slaughter.

All of the major supermarkets are very well aware of the treatment meted out to the poultry which they buy, and so should you be.

Alec.
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Well said Alec.Just where DO you go for humely reared meat though.
 
rear it yourself, or get to know farmer and make own judgement. but ow top of rearing cost transport and abatoir costs mi=ount up we do lambs but try to sell half or whole lambs or left with lot of breast and shoulder
 
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I'm finding it harder and harder to buy organic, free-range meat. Most weeks I don't even bother eating meat or eggs but occasionally I'd like to. I've asked my local Asda and Sainsbury's for more choice but they say they have no demand.

It's interesting what Honey08 said about farm shops. When you try and pin them down to exactly "how" the animals are kept, they are usually quite evasive and just keep harping on about "locally produced" and "high quality diet". Whilst this is important I want to know if these animals have ever seen the light of day.

I kept my horses on a farm a few years ago which has since gone into chicken production. The chickens are kept in huge buildings which stink. But some loophole means he can call these chickens free-range and off they go to the local farm shops where the unsuspecting public buy them.

I've decided to take on a few ex-battery hens for my supply of eggs as my copy of Viva which arrived yesterday has upset me so much with their expose of the egg industry.
 
Oliver I'd highly reccomend the ex batts - once you've bought the coop and fenced off where they will live, they don't cost much to keep at all, and lay the most delicious, enormous eggs! We have had four or five eggs a day all winter from six hens. Also its so nice to see them grow back their feathers and learn to scratch and run around.
 
EK I disagree totally. You don't have to accept the inhumane treatment of animals in order to eat them.

I don't think its inhumane or horrible for a duck to be out enjoying itself and then be picked up and have its neck broken. Before it knows what is happening its gone. Then we eat it. That is entirely acceptable to me. What is not acceptable is for that duck to live a shite life, be kicked and swung round and die frightened.

I think its a whole different argument to talk about wether we need to eat meat etc while we do eat meat we should all be trying our best to ensure the meat we eat was farmed and killed as humanely as possible.

Agree with whoever said that if in pursuit of that, meat becomes too expensive for most to eat then we just don't eat it - fair enough.

Wether then that puts a lot of UK farmers out of business then that's really bad, BUT we have to keep humane killing and welfare at the forefront of our dealings with animals I think.
 
Kitsune said:
I don't think its inhumane or horrible for a duck to be out enjoying itself and then be picked up and have its neck broken. Before it knows what is happening its gone. Then we eat it. That is entirely acceptable to me. What is not acceptable is for that duck to live a shite life, be kicked and swung round and die frightened
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Couldn't agree more. I have no problem with an animal being slaughtered for meat - horses included. It is the life they live which is most important.

I also think that we eat, and expect to eat, too much meat. My grandparents maybe had a joint on Sundays, cold leftovers on Monday and then the scraps turned into a broth. I have friends who think they are hard done to if they don't have their meat every day.

I splashed out on a free-range organic turkey at Christmas which cost me £75. Friends thought I was barking but I really would not have enjoyed Christmas dinner knowing my turkey had lived a miserable life.

Honey08 - I definitely will take on ex-battery hens. I'm just trying to persuade my husband that they will be safe as we do have foxes which visit the garden. I was hoping that they would be able to wander around the garden and then go into the coop at night or do you think they would be better in a permanently fenced off area?
 
I come from a farming back ground and several of us are veggies but have no problems eating meat.

On all the farms my various family members have worked on, owned etc the animals welfare has always been the highest priority. A distressed animal is not going to produce any where near as much nor the quality as a happy one. Those ducks did not need to be picked up like that, a simple board held between 2 people and slowly herded would have been cheaper on labour and easier for all.

Good food doesn't need to cost a fortune nor does it need to be handled in such a fashion.

You will always get a bad apple in any basket but on the whole instead of going free range or organic I make sure I buy British. That was all the farmers have to comply with strict laws regarding welfare and if they act in an unsavoury manner like this someone will find out and they will loose out.

I am with Alec. Source your meat carefully. I can't profess to do so all the time but I do make attempts as and when I can. I also don't eat that much meat. Eggs will come from non other than my gorgeous rescue chooks. I have several people (including my postman) who love their eggs and they are always in demand because they taste better and are of a better quality than shop brought. Having seen the state they were in and seen them progress to happy, fiesty little madams I will never again buy anything other than free range eggs. Though their ideas of free range and mine are completely different!
 
They could be in the garden, but foxes will come at any time, and if you already have them in the garden they would probably be gone! They don't have much instinct for running away - they just squat down if they're worried! Ours have an area 15m wide and the length of six stables (L shaped) that has high mesh fencing. It is grass on hardcore, and the fence is dug into the ground as the foxes will dig under too if they want the hens! They love scratching around and eating the grass - they have cleared this area completely already. We have another bit that their run will extend into soon. They do make a fair mess- they'd scratch your garden and flower pots etc, so it depends if you mind that or not. I prefer them with a dedicated area. That could be just me - they are at the stables, and I like everything swept and tidy muckheaps - they love scratching it all down! They put themselves to bed at night!
 
Thanks for that info. Plenty to think about but maybe a fenced in run would be more sensible. I do like my garden also. Funny you should mention them scratching about in muckheaps. My horses go to my friends place for their winter holidays as he has about 12 acres divided into two fields - one for his two horses and one for mine. It drives me mad when I muckpick as the poo is literally scattered everywhere which takes me ages to pick up. I pile it in a corner which is also scattered yet his half of the field has nice tidy piles which are easy to pick up. I caught a few of his chickens in my field scattering poo everywhere and can only think its because I feed sunflower seeds which have probably passed through undigested and they are foraging for them. Its funny to watch them though.
 
Utterly dreadful, managed to watch most of it, wish I hadn't, hope they feel ashamed of themselves but I doubt they'd evn feel a shred of guilt.
 
We've had our ex batt hens for about 18 months now and I'd highly recommend them to anyone! They looked very sorry for themselves when they first arrived and it has been lovely to watch them grow into fully feathered, happy characters. They settled very quickly and were free ranging from the time we let them out of the coop (need a couple of days to learn where they live >g<). They've laid from the day they arrived, including throughout the winter months. Hens aren't as stupid as some people think, they have individual characters. If I go to sit on a bench near them one or two will almost always jump up to sit next to me. I hate to think of their former lives and am glad I have them now.
 
Oliver12 said:
I'm finding it harder and harder to buy organic, free-range meat. Most weeks I don't even bother eating meat or eggs but occasionally I'd like to. I've asked my local Asda and Sainsbury's for more choice but they say they have no demand.

It's interesting what Honey08 said about farm shops. When you try and pin them down to exactly "how" the animals are kept, they are usually quite evasive and just keep harping on about "locally produced" and "high quality diet". Whilst this is important I want to know if these animals have ever seen the light of day.

I kept my horses on a farm a few years ago which has since gone into chicken production. The chickens are kept in huge buildings which stink. But some loophole means he can call these chickens free-range and off they go to the local farm shops where the unsuspecting public buy them.

I've decided to take on a few ex-battery hens for my supply of eggs as my copy of Viva which arrived yesterday has upset me so much with their expose of the egg industry.
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If you look on my photos under my username you will see photos of ex battery hens that we've rehomed. I do voluntary work for the BHWT (Battery Hen Welfare Trust) where I have attended a farm and helped to crate up a load of hens for rehoming on the same day. I have to say the hens are normally not too bad in terms of condition and body weight, although you do get the odd one. Farmers are not monsters and have a living to make same as everyone else. The BHWT works in conjunction with and not against farmers. DEFRA guidelines with hens insist that hens are taken out of battery cages to be crated upside down by their legs. The reason for this is because the birds relax and do not flap about and it is easier for them to be held in this way although it looks cruel and unorthodox. Sometimes this can involve holding five or six birds in each hand, a task which was quite daunting to me as a first timer, and one which I wasn't keen to repeat much as I want to help again. So if the DEFRA rules state that ducks should be handled by their necks (which I would be very surprised about) then this method should be used. But throwing them about is obviously not acceptable to DEFRA or anyone else.
 
Caught and have it`s neck broken immediately? To achieve that it would be a case of home rearing. ALL poultry intended for the table are grabbed by the legs for chooks (four in each hand) then stuffed into carry crates;if they are "lucky" the farm has a killing unit..like the one I live beside. Watching the film I can see nothing unusual at all,and as for the deads and dying..well one of the daily jobs is removing the ten or so birds that die each day in the unit which housed five thousand per shed . If not ,they are then transported on an open lorry to a killing depot Lord knows where!
To attain the standards you seem to believe are normal it is def a case for home rearing only;we did just that way back with pigs for our own consumption..and the abbatoir was only a mile away,so it was a short drive in the back of my estate,maybe five minutes total.That particular abbatoir bedded them down well and were humane,no squeals were ever heard,but that was exceptional.
So many chooks are badly bruised,even wings broken ,on their last journey,and the worst ones end up in pet food.Don`t kid yourself,
these are the facts. To feed you animals suffer to a greater or lesser degree,please don`t pretend ignorance,go and work in a MEAT poutry unit for a while and then report back:D
 
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"to attain the standards you think are normal"

EK what are you talking about - where did anyone say it was normal to treat animals the right way? Sadly it isnt normal. Simply because it's difficult to achieve doesn't mean people should simply stop striving for the absolute best treatment of our meat does it?

The point is removing yourself from the market completely doesn't really achieve anything, whereas putting money into the right market, the ones who treat animals well, does achieve something.

Simply not eating meat isn't saving anything but your conscience!
 
Truly sickening but don't know why anyone's surprised. Intensely reared, factory farmed animals suffer like no animal should. There are sick individuals in many abattoirs that get some sort of twisted pleasure in making animals suffer as much as they can before killing. CCTV should be installed anywhere that animals are being killed.
I agree with what some other posters have said, if consumers didn't want to eat cheap meat every day you could afford to buy better quality of meat with some assurance of hopefully a decent life and as humane end as possible.
The fact is though, animals die so people can eat them, where you buy it from is a matter for your own conscience.

http://www.gopetition.com/petition/39932.html
 
Kitsune said:
.......EK what are you talking about - where did anyone say it was normal to treat animals the right way? Sadly it isnt normal. Simply because it's difficult to achieve doesn't mean people should simply stop striving for the absolute best treatment of our meat does it?.......
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I'm sorry Kitty, but you're wrong, and EK is right. Supermarket buyers, are governed by their employers. They have shareholders to consider, and if you have money invested through deposit accounts, then unwittingly, you may well be one of them.

They have to buy meat, as cheaply as they can, and they do this by screwing down their suppliers, to the point where the farm profit margin is little more than a joke.

If the methods employed, within the UK, were monitored to the point where we produced poultry in an ethical manner, then the whole industry would die, for the simple reason that either the suppliers would go out of business, or our poultry requirements would be sourced from abroad, and if you think that the film which you witnessed was bad, it was nothing compared with what goes on in other countries.

I don't like it any more than you do, but it's the way that it is. :(

Alec.
 
I am simply saying Kitsune that the video was normal practice in poultry meat farms,it ain`t right..but it happens every day of the week. Therefore to achieve your ideal of a beast knowing nothing and not suffering before being killed it has to be home reared..or of course there is game meat,shot accurately.
There is never a pretty way to die in slaughterhouses,the distances to get animals to the slaughterhouses are getting greater,meaning much more travelling stress. That is`nt the farmer`s fault,it is DEFRA`s daft rules.
The truth of meat production is not pleasant, it is hypocritical to claim otherwise;no, I no longer eat any meat simply becase I am honest enough to see the meat trade as it is and choose not to endorse it .

However,there is currantly a couple of wild shot bunnies in the slow cooker for my OH,and of course fresh road kills would be fair game too. Just not organised murder for us though!! :D:D:D:D
 
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