CRUELTY - You Tube Video ....

Shoot me down, but the word cruel is a word thrown around too often. Particularly when situations are not fully understood.

The trick they are performing is not ideal, but as pointed out by other posters, the horses are not objecting, do not look distressed and are rewarded. They are also in good condition. Now if they were in poor condition, looked distressed or were being hit in order to perform the trick... I might be tempted to throw in the C word.

I do not want to presume, but some horses do have to earn their keep. Would anyone feeding a school horse just hay and having children bounce about on their backs for 2-3 hours a day is cruel? Or is it just more or a "normal" thing to do?
 
I dont think it's cruel. Horses looked in fab condition and they were just performing tricks that the owners have obviously spent a lot of time teaching to the horses.

I dont see how this is any different to some of the 'acts' you see at big shows now a days - like that guy who turns his horse upside down.

I watched severa; more of the videos as i found them very interesting and I actually enjoyed watching how they were handling and asking the horses for the actions they wanted.

I was particularly taken by this horse - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaqVjY8tvWs&feature=related - nothing different to moves we see top dressage riders doing everyday. Horse is engaged and willing.

I agree probably not to everyones taste but that's why everyone is different, how boring if we all liked the same stuff.
 
galacasinoking said:
well like i said in an earlier post, dressage is not cruel, but if horses were trained the same way as the horse in the video then i would then say its cruel
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Good Lord now you can tell how this horse was trained? I don't particularly like it but the horse is most definitely not hobbled neither is he terrified, he seems to calmly know his job - there are far far worse things going on (AND in this country too)
 
doesn't look any worse than a video that NH people raved over a few weeks ago. that video showed a horse doing 'tricks' and a man sitting on its stomach while it laid on the ground etc.

The horse looks in good condition in the video, the periods of dancing look short, and the handlers praise it constantly and genuinely. i've seen worse.
 
ahh western pleasure the art of going nowhere fast and the 4 beat canter while raking the arena surface with your horse's nose....

The original vid, I was a bit :eek: when I first saw those videos but I think the horses are happy enough when performing. I think there are plenty of videos of some dancing horses being trained in posts which isn't so fab to watch but then they used to be used by the spanish riding school more than they are now by all counts.
 
Different culture, different training, different treatment of their horses...

Can see both sides of the opinions but I sit on the fence with this one... I'm undecided!
 
I'm a total bunny hugger and TBH didn't see anything really wrong in that particular video.

The movements weren't held for as long as e.g. some of the over bent dressage horses we see and the horses were certainly given a lot more breaks and praise than e.g. you see during a Spanish riding school performance.

I'm sure I wouldn't like all the training methods but then I don't like all the training methods in *any* discipline I've yet seen.

Just because it looks odd to us doesn't mean it is worse than any of the crazy things we do with horses. In fact the insanity of some dressage outlines was first pointed out to me by someone who has ridden perhaps three times ever and has no interest in doing so again... but does know what a horse should look like. Fresh pair of eyes and all that...
 
wonderhorse11 said:
the horses are being made to do such un-natural movments i dont get it! why make a horse do this its just so unfair!!! :'(
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What's "natural" about a horse wearing tack and carrying a human on its back? What exactly are unnatural movements? you mean like dressage?
 
sarelis said:
I can't bear cruelty to animals in any form, but I really don't think that was cruelty. Those animals looked in great condition, were asked to 'dance' for a short period then were petted & fussed over! Those people seem to value their horses greatly, & are showing them off at some kind of event. Not too different from someone taking their horse to a show/competition?
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I agree ^^^

At 1:17 the horse spooks slightly and the handlers release the pressure, the horse then continues the movement it was asked.

It is not what I would do with my horse, but it is a damn sight better handling than dome western people show. How many times do you see people sawing on their horses mouths and not releasing the pressure when it is too much because it is deemed cruel to use a stronger bit but be more aware of how you use it?
 
I personally don't see anything TOO horrendous there. I don't particularly like it and I wouldn't want my horse doing that. But taking a look at training methods and disciplines that horses do commonly then I don't see them being much better!

Dressage - overbent, Spanish Riding School movements aren't exactly natural.
Showjumping/cross country - can put an awful lot of strain on limbs and we all know that there are unscrupulous methods used by some trainers
Racing - again a lot of very young under developed horses being overloaded and breaking down
Showing - over rugging, side reins in stable etc etc the list goes on.
 
The horses are clearly well looked after, you can tell from their condition. The tricks they are trained to do are a bit weird, but I do not think the horses are frightened in any way, you want to see some of the faces my friend's horse pulls when walking by hedges lol! I think the people asking for these tricks are fruitcakes, I mean, what the hell for? It doesn't exactly show off the horse's natural beauty or athleticism in any great way..
 
Merry Crisis said:
I simply cant be bothered to to read all the posts, but I can see nothing wrong with the video, I see more on HHO that screams cruelty than that. Its a differant culture, live and let live. At least those horses dont have a fat bint riding them, pulling them in allsorts of postures that they think is dressage.
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Hear hear!! hahaha!
 
StickyToffee said:
The horses are clearly well looked after, you can tell from their condition. The tricks they are trained to do are a bit weird, but I do not think the horses are frightened in any way, you want to see some of the faces my friend's horse pulls when walking by hedges lol! I think the people asking for these tricks are fruitcakes, I mean, what the hell for? It doesn't exactly show off the horse's natural beauty or athleticism in any great way..
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Well said
 
While I would not say it was full on cruelty the horses do not look happy or relaxed but look under pressure, I cannot really see what is going on with the rope on the first one seems to be fitted to bit then under horse going off to a handler.
It certainly looks very weird and yes of course there are worse things going on but does not make for nice viewing.
 
Personally, i think they are making a mockery of the horse. It loses all dignity by doing this, in my eyes anyway.
Dressage, Eventing and showjumping- i havet got a problem with, they are doing moves which they do naturally, jump a fence, trot, canter etc...
But this... this is not what horses were built for.


Im also not keen on the Spanish Riding school, but i understand that the horses are in tip top condition and are rewarded etc...

Just my opinion
 
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Beausmate said:
There are stronger bits, and then there are these :( I was wondering if something like that is how the 'dancing' was achieved.
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I'd imagine so :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lfzVneGhzc&feature=player_embedded

This is heartbreaking, the amount that poor buckskin sweats up and the movements they are making him perform,I for one have never seen a horse choose to display those movements of it's on free will :( They don't really have much choice though when they have great hunks of metal in their mouths and suffer harsh treatment from their handlers.
 
I ve seen a video of them training these horse, if that's what you can call it, they use cattle prods on ether side of the horse to make it jump back and forth. Not the kind of sport I would support !!!!!
 
team barney said:
I'd imagine so :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lfzVneGhzc&feature=player_embedded

This is heartbreaking, the amount that poor buckskin sweats up and the movements they are making him perform,I for one have never seen a horse choose to display those movements of it's on free will :( They don't really have much choice though when they have great hunks of metal in their mouths and suffer harsh treatment from their handlers.
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the second horse, the dun, was a stallion, i think they are doing well to have him behaving so well and his moves are impressive if you look at it objectively. The heat in india i am not surprised he is sweaty!
 
Bit perculiar certainly, but i think there are worse forms of cruelty to be outraged by. I though the handlers were very calm and quiet with the horses and i've seen worse in stableyards in England.

For those outraged by the homemade chunks of metal in the mouths, 'Friends of Marwari' are running a bit donation scheme to help educate people and provide a softer alternative. They are after donations of 4 1/2, 4 3/4 and 5 inch bits.
 
I am having to agree with posters who think it very wrong it does not take much working out how they train them, the horses are stressed and the bitting harsh.
I have to say as before not nice viewing, not nice for horse is there more blatant harsh cruelty yes, does it make this right no.
And I really disagree with the comments about horses having to make a living etc that is why the human race has so many bad points we think every living thing owes us something.
And I am not some fluffy person type thing or whatever you may want to call me I actually sell on a few horses so I am totally realistic about things.
 
Paint Me Proud said:
the second horse, the dun, was a stallion, i think they are doing well to have him behaving so well and his moves are impressive if you look at it objectively. The heat in india i am not surprised he is sweaty!
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I don't see the relevance of the buckskin's entirety? Just because a horse is entire does not make it reasonable to subject him/her to cruel treatment.

The horse was sweated up due to the extreme and damaging movements he was subjected to, he did not start his "performance" sweated up yet he became excessively sweaty in a short space of time. He is after all well accustomed to the heat.

Also a horse's good behaviour is not proof that abuse does not exist, far from it, many (if not most) severely abused horses are incredible well behaved.
 
I think most were stallions, probably a factor in how they behave, it may be they are shut in and "performing" is their exercise a bit like a controlled, by harsh bitting and ropes, explosion combined with frustration. I dont think they were behaving well just no other option.
It is another culture and it is hard to not be judgemental but not comfortable viewing imo.
 
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