CRUELTY - You Tube Video ....

The training methods would interest me. The way they train dancing bears is barbaric and I hope they don't use similar methods for the horses.

I think the music makes it sound more sinister than it is (not sure why). I think the horse would probably rather not be doing it, but I think that with a lot of what we make our horses do.

The fact the horse looks so desperate to keep repeating the 'dance' would indicate to me that maybe their methods of training do involve pain. Obviously I don't know that for a fact and I am not stating it as fact. Just seems like a 'quick I had better dance/move before....' action.
 
Thank god some posters are now talking sense on this thread last two posters are being more realistic about what is happening.
 
Trinity Fox said:
Thank god some posters are now talking sense on this thread last two posters are being more realistic about what is happening.
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Excuse me? Just because you agree with/don't agree with someone doesn't mean they aren't talking sense :rolleyes: Differences in opinion are allowed you know?

I don't think anyone has said they 'like' the video, or that it is something they would do themselves...
 
Trinity Fox said:
Thank god some posters are now talking sense on this thread last two posters are being more realistic about what is happening.
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Ahh your're the arbitrator of "sense" now, are you?

I don't see any evidence of violence or aggression in this video, it may not be something you'd choose to teach, but I am confident it is possible to teach it without aggression or undue force. Maybe I'll teach my highland to, just to prove it :cool:
 
Trinity Fox said:
Thank god some posters are now talking sense on this thread last two posters are being more realistic about what is happening.
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I was rather surprised that most seemed to think it something the horses may do for their own amusement with no pressure from the handlers or the force on the rein:confused:.
How it can be compared to dressage correctly performed is beyond my tired brain:D
 
Also, it makes me think about how lucky we are. (taking the is/isn't cruel factor away from it) Imagine having to sit through hours of that for entertainment! It's hardly exciting and a slight bit repetitive. They need a huge plasma and some dvds :D
 
After watching this vid I think lots of people are far more 'cruel' in this country when it comes to 'tradition', Dancing horses are tradition and cultural there, fox hunting is 'tradition' here. In the video, they are on soft ground, look in great fit condition and do not seem head shy or people shy (pointing out not hard handling). Where as fox hunting which goes on every week in the UK, sees horses being made to jump on and off of tarmac roads and canter on them,....a lot worse for their legs than anything in this video for sure! And the fox hunters are meant to be 'horse lovers'! Other cultuers would strongly diasagree, as do I! And what is the difference between this and the likes of 'Spirit of the Horse' which when it comes to the UK is a sell out? This shows trained horses kneeling, bowing, laying own on command,....is this cruel? Nothing we ask horses to do is natural. It is not natural for a horse to carry a preditor (which we are) on their backs. It is not natural for a horse to jump the heights we ask of them and it is deffinatley not natural for a horse to do dressage! Let alone all the stupid and complicated tack we place on our horses and within our horses mouths to make them do as we wish. These horses had no tack, no ridiculous bit, but a simple rope head collar and as far as I could see, good and natural horseman ship. Before judging others, look at your own culture and realise what it is we do.
 
Merry Crisis said:
I simply cant be bothered to to read all the posts, but I can see nothing wrong with the video, I see more on HHO that screams cruelty than that. Its a differant culture, live and let live. At least those horses dont have a fat bint riding them, pulling them in allsorts of postures that they think is dressage.
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*claps* you see more cruelty during rc prelim dressage tbh
 
Just like to say, I do not agree with these vid's but am trying to point out that the 'cruelty' in them is less than the cruelty we show horses in the UK, but we just dont see it as cruelty because most are too short sighted and are taken up by so called tradition to recognise it.
 
be positive said:
I was rather surprised that most seemed to think it something the horses may do for their own amusement with no pressure from the handlers or the force on the rein:confused:.
How it can be compared to dressage correctly performed is beyond my tired brain:D
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I don't think anyone said that the horses do it for their own amusement - hell horses need training for every single thing we do with them, a horse would not jump a course of jumps or ride a dressage test for it's own amusement either, nor would it hack with someone on its back.

As I said before, I would not train my horse to perform like this but I really cannot see your argument here. This is a different culture and to be honest I am pleased to see the horses looking so well fed in a third world country where they struggle to feed themselves let alone their horses and who the hell are we to judge when every weekend you can see British riders abusing their horses albeit unintentionally most of the time.
 
Amaranta said:
I don't think anyone said that the horses do it for their own amusement - hell horses need training for every single thing we do with them, a horse would not jump a course of jumps or ride a dressage test for it's own amusement either, nor would it hack with someone on its back.

As I said before, I would not train my horse to perform like this but I really cannot see your argument here. This is a different culture and to be honest I am pleased to see the horses looking so well fed in a third world country where they struggle to feed themselves let alone their horses and who the hell are we to judge when every weekend you can see British riders abusing their horses albeit unintentionally most of the time.
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totally agree, this link shows an amrican teaching his horse to dance,...just like Piaffe,....as we think is fantastic in dressage in the UK,...see what you make of this! This is far far more cruel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy4wN0sPtgg&feature=related
 
The level of racism shown on this thread has seriously saddened me :(
I am almost certain that if the music had been eurocentric and the handlers had been dressed in trousers, shirts and ties, then the thread would have been entirely different.
 
YorksG said:
The level of racism shown on this thread has seriously saddened me :(
I am almost certain that if the music had been eurocentric and the handlers had been dressed in trousers, shirts and ties, then the thread would have been entirely different.
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agreed,...this is spanish, same tricks,...but ridden rather than in hand. No differnce http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=9cMSi5dzamM&feature=endscreen
and this in the UK, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWlT0FuDNbc saem tricks, but done in Olympia,...so must be ok....right? nah!
 
Yeah I was going to say this thread is a bit racist!

Indians love horses! Ok they may not treat them like we do here but doesn't mean they are cruel. Not in that video anyway. Horses are Gods in Hindu religion.

The ponies on the Himalayas are ridden by big men with enormous buzzards to catch dinner. Is that cruel? or culture?

Rolkur. Cruel or culture?

Hunting. Cruel or culture?

Soring the Tenessee Walking Horse. Cruel or culture?
 
team barney said:
The horse was sweated up due to the extreme and damaging movements he was subjected to, he did not start his "performance" sweated up yet he became excessively sweaty in a short space of time. He is after all well accustomed to the heat.
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But 'we' make horses sweat all the time, including in a very short space of time! It doesn't take them very long to go a few furlongs and it doesn't take that long to do a grand prix test.
 
Really interesting clip, and such a bizarre thing to be asking them to do.

But, how caring were the handlers? A rub, a scratch, all reassuring, affectionate and rewarding.

And of course, we couldn't see the whites of their eyes (or certainly not the first horse), as they were wearing blindfolds.

But damn weird.....
 
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Loch Ness said:
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=GB#/watch?v=ZEjkz2R4Bl4 This was the least sick way I found how they train these horse, did find one with them using cattle prods but that was to horrible to share but I think you can guess what it was like :(
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that video doesn't work,

I know we have had one but I thought a couple more vids of horses working in pillars might be helpful maybe? I think they are quite alien to us generally but do seem to be used world wide.

horse getting plenty of treats post performing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfWUnXwyW7g&feature=related

arab
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-0dBjaOATA

spanish riding school, not using them but they are there!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADw4uaYuC1M&feature=rellist&playnext=1&list=PL8791FB43CBF10A62

and skip to about 1:06 (in hand)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDJPDfwidVc&feature=g-vrec&context=G29a077cRVAAAAAAAACQ
 
wonderhorse11 the horses are being made to do such un-natural movments i dont get it! why make a horse do this its just so unfair!!! :'(


Actually not that un natural my 3yrs filly did something closley reasembleing this yesterday when throwing a paddy in her new stable after being split from her buddy
 
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