Crufts 2016

twiggy2 said:
crufts is once per year, if you delay the season 6 months or so before crufts by getting them fit enough that nature delays a season for a month there is plenty of time to be ready for enough shows to qualify and have the dog show ready for crufts
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Yours is a better explanation of the very same point which I made, but earlier. Bitches in season are the responsibility of the owner, and should the litmus test of a dog's interest be applied and prove 'positive', then any such bitches should be removed from the ring. To ignore this point leaves the showing fraternity open to accusations of skulduggery.

Alec.
 
Showing bitches in season is 100% allowed under Kennel Club rules.
Dogs are always judged before the bitches, this is done to ensure dogs arent distracted by the scent of an in season bitch left in the ring if the bitches were to have gone in first.

However....

It is massively frowned up by other competitors and considered extremely bad sportsmanship to bring a bitch who is in 'full' season due tot he effect it has on the dogs.
Showing during the first and last few days is okay as long as you are respectful of other dogs.

I showed my bitch the day after she finished her season but kept her away from all the dogs during the show out of respect that she may still smell 'interesting'.
 
I'm going to add my thoughts to the mix, personally I don't like showing, I think with a lot of these pastimes that are judged that it's unfortunately often not the best that gets through its who you are and what favours are owed to you etc that causes your animal to do well. I'm not saying this always happen but I'm positive it does happen.

With regards to the GSD for a start it looked and was acting frightened, if it hadn't been on a lead it would have been off but because it was restricted and was in a fearful state this didn't help its front leg body action at all.

Her back legs are nowhere near right, how anyone can feel that is fit for purpose I do not know. She also on at least one occasion knuckled over on her back foot.

Whatever the ins and outs that dog is now seen by others as the best example of the breed in the world and by allowing it to win others will strive towards that example.

One of the points of showing in the past was to pick the best examples of the breed to then breed from. To me these dogs must be physically and temperamentally sound 150%!!

If the dog was like this because she was in season she shouldn't be shown and I would even go so far as to say that she shouldn't be a show dog at all if it effects her temperament so much
 
Physiologically,that GSD moved like a dog with a serious neurological problem. At first glance at the slo-mo (as I walked past the tv and stopped to watch),I thought it was a clip from Supervet,showing a surgical patient who was lucky to be alive,let alone shuffling/tripping along....
I (along with all the dog owners i know) am appalled. The judge and breeder should be shot at dawn (metaphorically,obviously - along with any others who judge 'that' to be desirable) and heads should roll at the KC - how can entrants who are a clear and obvious abomination of the breed standard get that far?!

I know this isn't the only breed to have been bastardised by some of the show breeders but seriously...this country needs to get a grip and sort this travesty out.

Apologies...my blood is still boiling...
 
Venevidivici said:
…….. seriously...this country needs to get a grip and sort this travesty out.

…….. ...
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The vast majority will agree with you, just as they did and would have done 20 years ago. It simply aint gonna happen!

Perhaps the old and the lame amongst those who direct 'things' should be put out to pasture. It's high time.

Alec.
 
The knuckling over is a typical neurological clue, so the specialist told me at the RVC. It's anormal, very worrying sign. The video made me really upset. Even if she had been tucking under to avoid a dog, that was extreme. :(
 
I agree Alec - plenty must be old,lame and with clearly failing eye-sight...
The best GSD dog was conformationally barely any better, which blows the in-season argument out of the water somewhat.
As pointed out on another forum,it's ironic that Crufts has a police dog display,full of fully-functional GSDs and yet those physically impaired pair of unfortunate dogs are held up as the pinnacle of the breed. :(
 
Venevidivici said:
…….. those physically impaired pair of unfortunate dogs are held up as the pinnacle of the breed. :(
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I wonder if the powers that be would have reacted, publicly or otherwise, had there not been public outrage. The problem, it seems to me is that there's no purposeful will for change, or at least when there is, it's only as a means of placating those who are the most outspoken. It also seems odd that it's those who wouldn't make a claim as to any breed-specific knowledge, and I'm amongst them, who nonetheless are able to see what the 'experts' can't.

We have a multitude of equine registration facilities, but only one for dogs, and therein may lay the reason for the apparent complacency and apathy. It's a funny old world, isn't it? :)

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
I wonder if the powers that be would have reacted, publicly or otherwise, had there not been public outrage. The problem, it seems to me is that there's no purposeful will for change, or at least when there is, it's only as a means of placating those who are the most outspoken. It also seems odd that it's those who wouldn't make a claim as to any breed-specific knowledge, and I'm amongst them, who nonetheless are able to see what the 'experts' can't.

We have a multitude of equine registration facilities, but only one for dogs, and therein may lay the reason for the apparent complacency and apathy. It's a funny old world, isn't it? :)

Alec.
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Actually, there are quite a few canine registries, but none of them have the kudos and credibility of the KC who exert their virtual monopoly by remaining a "private club". In short, the KC can do (and does) exactly what it likes. Even it's own members cannot peruse their accounts as the late Dr Malcolm Willis (of GSD fame and KC member) found out! It is part (and head) of an international network of "recognised" dog registries world-wide.

The KC should become member owned with everyone who owns a registered dog having a vote. As I have said before, the KC exerts enormous influence and pressure on all dogdom, out of all proportion to the percentage who run things. Their influence extends far beyond dogs.

Power corrups and absolute power corrups absolutely. But don't expect the KC to take opposition sitting down! As I've said, it is run like the Mafia or the Freemasons and if favours are not returned, the consequences can be dire. I wonder how I know that?
 
OK I shall briefly stick my head above the parapet here. I commented elsewhere that I thought the bitch looked awful in the big ring, but people whose opinion I respected said she was a good type of bitch. Having seen pictures of her standing (not at Crufts) I don't have too many problems with her shape although would agree she is over angulated at the back. She does however have good hip and elbow scores However I know that many of the general public don't like that type.
I have asked on a couple of GSD pages that a video be produced of her moving freely off lead, if that does happen I will share it here with the owners permission. I do feel desperately sorry for the owner of this bitch, she may be unsound but she is not unhealthy and she is a much loved dog, calling them cruel and animal abusers as some have done (not on here) is just wrong.
Sadly I think in defending this bitch a lot of breeders are missing the point, as an outsider who doesn't go to shows I think over angulation and loose hocks need addressing. Many are now realising this and breeding to improve the situation, but there are still some who have ostrich syndrome.
I have lived with GSDs for all my life and love the breed, I am happy with how my dogs look, though some may not like them, but I am sad what is happening to some. My young bitch's sire won the veteran class at Crufts, imo and that of many others he is the one who should have been BoB, a sound, balanced dog without over exaggeration in any dept, there are better dogs out there maybe but in the Crufts environment he showed his head off. Sadly it is the one in the centre of the ring who makes the decision, and they chose Tori.
 
MurphysMinder, a good post. Obviously the media have rounded on the entire breeding and showing ethos, and perhaps some good will come of it or at least a shift in stance. It wouldn't be a bad thing.

I asked earlier (or perhaps somewhere else!) if you could find a piece of film of the bitch in question moving feely, and if you could, that may well be useful and I'd be grateful. I strongly suspect that those who are actually showing the dogs in hand are sourced for their abilities and it may very well be that it was as much the handler's influence, and the fact that the bitch seemed to be towing him round the ring, possibly to avoid the attentions of the dog following, which was the reason for her exaggerated and apparently distorted movement.

For all of that, I continue to believe that those who steer the GSD as a breed really must look to themselves and work towards breeding dogs with less in the way of an unnatural stance and movement.

Alec.
 
Another balanced response MM :)

I think I said this in the other thread but if only she had been able to move well and with confidence in the big ring I think there would have been far less controversy, or at least no more than in previous years. Presumably she has done so in the past so it's a huge shame for all her connections that it all went to pieces just when all eyes were on her.
 
I would suggest that those engaged in the usual GSD backlash go and read the statement issued by gsdleague.co.uk on BOB 2016. Get some information from people who really do know this breed.
I saw lots of dogs who should have failed the temperament test this year; Cruaghaire Catoria was NOT one of them.
 
Fellewell said:
I would suggest that those engaged in the usual GSD backlash go and read the statement issued by gsdleague.co.uk on BOB 2016. Get some information from people who really do know this breed.
I saw lots of dogs who should have failed the temperament test this year; Cruaghaire Catoria was NOT one of them.
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That other dogs should have failed the temperament test is either irrelevant or just brings showing into even more disrepute.

Why would I want to read what people 'who really know the breed' are saying when those people are breeding and giving rewards to dogs with roach backs which clearly do not meet the breed standard?

If there is a backlash every year, why is no-one taking any notice?
 
I don't think it says anything we don't already know to be honest. It is a shame they gave nothing to support this statement 'Cruaghaire Catoria is a correct type to the German Shepherd Dog standard' when the standard clearly reads straight back.
 
Fellewell said:
I would suggest that those engaged in the usual GSD backlash go and read the statement issued by gsdleague.co.uk on BOB 2016. Get some information from people who really do know this breed.
I saw lots of dogs who should have failed the temperament test this year; Cruaghaire Catoria was NOT one of them.
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Interesting statement, especially the opening lines accusing the Kennel Club and Crufts presenters of cteating public hysteria. They didn't - the public outcry was totally in advance of Channel 4's airing of these views.

It's all very well saying get some information from people who know the breed, but it only takes one look to know that the current breed standard is not what these dogs should look like.
 
Fellewell said:
I would suggest that those engaged in the usual GSD backlash go and read the statement issued by gsdleague.co.uk on BOB 2016. Get some information from people who really do know this breed.
I saw lots of dogs who should have failed the temperament test this year; Cruaghaire Catoria was NOT one of them.
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I've read the statement from the GSD League, including the comments from the handler, a person of international standing, or so they claim. I'm sorry Fellewell, but for such claims to be made by the GSD League, when those who aren't specific GSD owners but are none the less competent to judge a dog and its movement, breed irrespective, really isn't good enough. The League concerned are now blaming the Kennel Club and Crufts for the 'public hysteria'. The truth is that the KC and Crufts (though generally as bad as each other), simply elected to fight a rear guard action following the criticisms and concerns which the public legitimately raised and not the other way around. Rather than attempting to concoct a feeble response, the GSD League would be better to right what's wrong. Their defence of the judge is laughable in a litany or errors, and those who represent the breed need to accept the criticisms and adjust the breeding and judging protocols accordingly.

Rather than the existing system of 'blame' which is in place, the bodies concerned, and whilst also involving the main body of breeders need to sit down, in conference and sort out a future for their breed where this sorry display is never again repeated. Who's really to blame? All those who are involved with breeding and showing GSDs and who realising a sense of disquiet have stood by and done nothing, for years. Change and improvement must come from within, before their ability to self-regulate is taken from them.

Alec.
 
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