Crufts

Maesfen said:
Pucci-Pony, thanks for that explanation of the clips, that does make sense of a sort; it would help if it were more generally known I think and then you might not get the 'poncy' remarks quite so much! ;) It's just a great shame they are so exaggerated in the show ring as it really does detract from what well built dogs they usually are.
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Trust me when I say there are plenty of poodle trims out there that have NO basis for functionality...but you don't see those ones in the show ring. ;) However, lion trim will stay in the show ring I reckon because it is indeed traditional for a reason.

Good news for you poodle fans (though the ones that don't like the hair-styles) more and more shows are hosting pet-clip classes or allowing those styled in pet clips to show alongside those in more tradtional trims.
 
Spudlet said:
I get the feeling that much of the 'GSDs are horrible and crippled' feeling is of the same school as much anti-hunting sentiment. It's not that people know the facts, they just don't like the look or sound of something.:rolleyes:
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I suggest you read this post again. Or at least refer to the same one as the rest of us..................
 
Doesn't the GSD way of being shown, well, the way they are stood at least, exagerate the sloping topline? I've not really seen too many GSD's stood four square but I bet their toplines don't look like that when they do? I just don't really "get" the way the GSD is shown so I think that doesn't help in my appreciation of them I'm afraid!

Anyway, I'm not going to have a dig about anyone particular dog or breed as I'm sure there will be lunatics around somewhere that think pointers are ugly or unsound or unhealthy!! Like the Dalmation people tried to claim when the LUA Dalmation was brought over from the States and registered with the Kennel Club!
 
Tillypup said:
Like the Dalmation people tried to claim when the LUA Dalmation was brought over from the States and registered with the Kennel Club!
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But that was done to improve the health of the Dalmation, and replace a faulty gene. So this was about health, not what it looked like. Which has to be a good thing. Trouble with breeding (of any type and any animal) is that you get traditionalists whose very traditions can seriously compromise the welfare of the animal they are breeding......
 
amymay said:
But that was done to improve the health of the Dalmation, and replace a faulty gene. So this was about health, not what it looked like. Which has to be a good thing. Trouble with breeding (of any type and any animal) is that you get traditionalists whose very traditions can seriously compromise the welfare of the animal they are breeding......
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Didn't stop an awful lot of Dalmation breeders bemoaning the fact that the KC had allowed the registration of the dog and that it could potentially introduce a whole raft of other health "issues" from Pointers into Dalmations, although I have never seen these issues actually defined. I've seen a pic of the Dal in question, looks like a Dal to me and it was, I believe competing at Crufts this year.
 
Spudlet- I disagree that I've based my judgement on no information. I personally prefer the original stamp of the GSD. I'm all for them having a slightly sloping topline, say for example that the Boxer has but the topline that the GSD has is far too exaggerated for my liking.
I'm not picking on GSDs in particular, there are other breeds that have too much exaggeration and standards that in eyes do not produce a 'fit for function' dog.
 
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/07/12/cock-a-poodle-do-115875-21512995/

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://images.mirror.co.uk/upl/m4/jul2009/6/1/image-2-for-cindy-the-ever-changing-poodle-gallery-56803405.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2009/07/12/cock-a-poodle-do-115875-21512995/&usg=__5HIh2iixB25zxDbxfLlJ8UUolMs=&h=345&w=450&sz=65&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=kPm9XqL6RnTIKM:&tbnh=147&tbnw=197&ei=xzx-Ta7UGsqwhQfV_oXrBg&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpoodle%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3De7%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D834%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C228&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=147&vpy=247&dur=268&hovh=151&hovw=197&tx=110&ty=52&oei=xzx-Ta7UGsqwhQfV_oXrBg&page=1&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:0&biw=1280&bih=834

Poodle cuts anyone? (please excuse the long URL I thought the pic was funny enough to be worth it :))

As to GSD's I have looked Elmo up and though he is not my favorite type I think that the practical achievements, temperement references and hip and elbow scores speak for themselves - The dog is by no means a cripple or horrible. He is a healthy, fit, working capable dog. I am not personaly too keen on pekes, wippets or dachshunds but as long as they are well tempered, sound dogs why on earth would I have a right to call them 'horrible'?. Not my cup of tea but someone elses.
 
CaveCanem said:
Well we're no longer at war with Germany and even the Kennel Club is dropping the name so there is no need to call them an Alsatian :)

Elmo, the German Shepherd Dog, has A-normal hips and elbows(so free of hip and elbow dysplasia)

KK1 - highest breed survey (conformation, character, working test) result

SchIII - so he has passed the highest level in obedience (including 1m hurdle and A-frame), tracking (500 pace track, three articles) and protection work (six hide blind search, full protection routine). I train with people whose dogs compete at this level and the work the handlers and dogs put in is immense. It can take up to four years to get a dog from pup to SchIII.

He has his AD, which is a 12km run off a bike.

He has also won three championship level best in show titles, all breeds.

So by calling him horrible, you're not just disrespecting the breeders, trainers and handlers who have put so much work into this dog, you are also disrespecting every working and show judge who has handed him a title, not just GSD judges, but all-breed judges too.

He is EVERYTHING a GSD should be and as someone who is out on a training field or at the ringside every weekend and see how hard people work with their GSDs to get them to the level Elmo is at, your comment has made me really sad :(
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WOW! impressive, would have loved to have seen the dog in the flesh , the camera did him no favours, but there is no getting away from the above, what a record.
 
Re the poodle clips - the creative ones are certainly not everyone's cuppa tea. However, if you've never owned a poodle or ever attempted a creative design on a poodle, don't dismiss it as "poor dog" because I can assure you the dogs that are used for this creative type grooming will be of a temperament that absolutely loves the attention. You'd not use a nervous dog for something like this (groomers don't do it just to get their sadistic kicks at being cruel to an animal). Poodles tend to LOVE being with their owners and love the attention being lavished upon them.

In terms of pointless poodle clips, I was thinking more of the Dutch clip or the Town and Country....or Bikini clip....

Re the camera not being kind to Elmo...

I actually got that impression from many of the dogs I saw on the green mat. I wasn't hugely impressed with the way many went - and I reckon lights, cameras and huge atmosphere really took its toll on some of the less experienced dogs - and maybe even some of the well experienced ones.

I felt bad for the wee girl in the Friends for Life bit who's dog barked and ran away and hid from the camera when it tried to zoom in on them. She must have been nervous, and being autistic as I think they said, it was probably rather hard for her to go out on her own with her dog in front of all those folks and the camera...only to have your dog do a bunk. But I think her response to the dog was really really sweet.

Yes, change of subject ;)
 
Elmo does indeed have wonderful credts,as did last year`s GSD, BUT if the breed standard states a gentle straight but sloping line..sorry but to me that is not the case here. There is no doubt that too much exaggeration
has come in ,as in many breeds,and it does need addressing. No good spitting over it ! In my own breed heads are rapidly approaching a Border Leicester sheep in profile,and that is`nt what our bull terrier standard describes either.The result for bullies is narrow underjaws and instanding lower canines that go into the top palette, but our judges do penalise this fault. All breeds have "virtues" that become overdone ,as long as the breed fans accept this then it can be addressed;fact is that the early GSD looked like a chunky Malinois,personally I would have preferred it to stay that way.
 
We went on Friday, mainly to see the Bernese and compare how our puppy compares! :D

Good day, but a long one as we drove up from Plymouth that morning but I did make the good decision of staying over!

Who knows - may be there with my own dog to show next year! :D
 
The way I think of the sloping topline is, when we ask horses to work from behind we ask them to lower their quarters in order to lighten the front end and drive with the hindlegs. GSDs are rear wheel drive and therefore constantly have the lowered quarters to make the front end lift and allow the hind legs to drive. This means they can ramapage all over the countryside for days terrorising small children and OAPs (Or alternatively, herd sheep all day long). :D
To me, that makes sense, the fact that the dog then has exemplary qualifications and health scores suggests that it can't be that detremental to the dog.

Plus when you get bored you can race marbles down their spines :D

I'm just glad the docking debate isn't raging, or I'd have to post Otto's tail pictures again ;)
 
Sorry if people think I am spitting, stroppy or rude, it was not my intention, my right eyeball is still twitching a little but I did feel a bit better after eating something :p
Comes from the 80 mile round trip for work and then training/exercising the cripple on either side of it, perhaps.

EK, of course there has been over-exaggeration, does this dog really deserve such a bashing?
http://crufts.fossedata.co.uk/Breed.asp?ShowYear=2011&GroupID=PAS&ScheduleID=71

And this?
http://crufts.fossedata.co.uk/Breed.asp?ShowYear=2010&GroupID=PAS&ScheduleID=38

I do agree with you, I prefer a less exaggerated dog and I do hover more towards the working side these days, but I do have to remember where I came from and look towards where I want to go - back to the future so to speak, where there is no 'show type' and no 'working type' - as I say, Elmo is part of that process and part of where I want the breed to be heading and slagging him off as deformed and hump-backed (yes, people ARE saying that, all over AAD) isn't helping those people who are trying to improve things.
Maybe people should be supporting them instead.
 
Pics standing still look ok CC..but on the move..oh dear.Hold a top line..don`t think so in their wildest dreams ,up the Mali!
 
On a lighter note, as I was walking the dogs this evening I had a little dolly day dream about winning Best in Show at Crufts myself (well handling a dog obviously!!:p) anyway, I got a little bit emotional just at the thought of it!!!

Oooh, maybe one day I'll be there in the big ring!!! Well, I can dream can't I!!
 
Hold on to your dream Tillypup, and with a dual purpose dog, magic!

I have been in the big ring (agility final) in the days when Crufts was at Earls Court. Unfortunately I was suffering from terrible morning (all day) sickness and my lasting memory is of trying very hard not to throw up until we had finished our round and I could run to the loo.:(:p
 
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