CS-energy/turnout/musings:brainstorm please!

P

Prince33Sp4rkle

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 November 2009
Messages
6,880
Location
Leicestershire
Visit site
firstly apologies for lack of winters report, will do it tonight but suffice to say he was a very good boy :)

would like a HHO brainstorm if we can?!

he was in for 4 days solid (bar an hour out thur AM prior to leaving for Hartpury) and over those 4 days he was probably the most consistent in terms of energy/forward/in front of the leg he has been for a long time............i didnt have to ask/correct/push, he was just *there*, all the time.
He was sharp, but acceptably so, i can work with that level of get up (ahem!) and go.

he's never been one for needing to be out for long, a few hours and he's happy to come in, esp in the winter, but its completely impractical for him to be in more than he is now (currently out 6.30-3pm when weather good) as the lady who grabs in for me cannot get there earlier, and Fig NEEDS to be out as much as poss as he is a real hot head, and so does retired Bruce and sharp livery pony. Also i dont really agree with keeping them in a lot for convinience..........

all that said, is energy out still somehow exceeding calories in when he is out all day? he is kept nicely warm and is in an individual paddock so minimal hooning round.
he eats 3 scoops saracen re-leve and 2 mugs charnwood linseed over 2 feeds, and gets a lunch time feed of 2 scoops alfa a oil (which does his ulcers no end of good).

he's a real pig, will eat anything and always cleans up. He's eating a decent amount of good haylage overnight and is definatly not low/tucked up/tired, but being idle by nature, does he just need MORE energy to do this job at this level?

the re-leve is already a pretty high DE, to go higher im looking at racing feed, which of course is high starch so on paper no good because of ulcers, but i do think we have those pretty much under control currently and he's exhibiting NO ulcer signs, so could an increase in starch be tolerated? is it suck it and see?

i know the saracen speed mix is popular for lazy dressage horses, but its cereal based. The more fibre based racehorse cube is barely higher DE than the re-leve though.........

i do have some Havens Slobbermash to pick up to try as heard it can whizz them up as well as put weight on, but if that doesnt work, where do i go from here?

am definately going to keep him in on the morning of a show, rather than turnout and he does interval training once a week and is pretty damn fit, how else do i make sure energy in exceeds energy out?!

Ideas pretty please oh wise and cunning HHO...............................

ETA-equitop myoplast and pro pell/red cell make no diff to him.
 
One of the things which was recommended to me on my 'help me feed the thin, fussy TB' thread was full-fat soya flakes. They have a DE of 18, which is well above ReLeve etc, and they'll send you a sample in the post v fast. My horse wouldn't eat them, which is bizarre since they are in ReLeve, but they could be worth a try?
http://www.gravenhorse.co.uk/FFsoya.htm

The other thing to try is Tiger Oats? I know on paper they'd look to be bad news for ulcer horses, but I actually fed them in the run up to Novice events to my horse who had such bad ulcers, and they just gave him that extra bit of sparkle so he didn't finish the XC tired at the higher levels.
 
naked oats, flaked peas, top spec turbo would be on my list of things to try.

A friend used to keeps hers in for 24 hours before a competition, seemed to do the trick!
 
A different kettle of fish in many respects, but I keep my laid-back-to-the-point-of-horizontal competition mare in for 24 before as well, and that does the trick nicely. She doesn't run around or stress in the field either- fresh air making them more tired/lacking?!!

I also tried propell to no avail, but Naf EnerG did work- a full loading dose each day for three days before a show works for us. And it's pretty reasonable.
 
Just a thought but my horse is the same, I dont think it is feed related. He is so much more energetic and full of himself and therefore forwards if he is kept in, sometimes he could be in for just the morning and riding him straight out of his box at lunchtime he can bounce around, where as if he had been out in the field (even only for an hour) he will be his normal laid back calm/lazy self, even if he has only mouched around the field grazing.

So is it more of a 'being cooped up' and now pinging around/forwards with enthusiasim?
 
if at all possible, id like to not have to keep him for the full day before a show-i no longer live on site and its a lot of pressure on NMT to have a horse in that needs skipping and haying all the time as he's a messy ****** and its not fair of me to lump that on her, and if i have to go to the yard any more than i do already, my OH will have breakdown,as i struggle time wise anyway. In on the day of the show i can do, but wont always be able to do day before too, so changing feed would work better in reality :) Hopefullya s per Liane's post, just a few hours in will help.

EnerG and equijewel-also no diff but thanks :)

will email gravens thanks, think NMT tried it on fig but dont think we have any left..........

the speed mix is oats, barley and maize based and does have soya in too but the topsepc does have a much higher DE, hmmmmm.

outshine worth a gander too, have had previous horses on it but not tried in on him, thanks, had no idea such a high DE!
 
I like the A&P power and performance which seems to give my boy quite a bit of energy but not sure if that would be suitable for your boy.
 
Does he get any hay/lage while out? Is that an option? Is he warm enough ? Those would be the things that are different to him being in? It will probably sort itself it once the grass appears.
 
I would try Kompeet. I showjump and have a large v sharp gelding who has lacked stamina to produce his best over two rounds. It's really helped his performance without changing his ride ability which is so important. It's not cheap but it has been effective on all the horses I have tried on it.
 
It does seem such a shame to change/add feed when he is so settled on what he's on. My TB though, always works better straight from the stable. Forward and willing. He is flat and lazy when he has been out all day.

Perhaps it's an ex racer thing where they're just not used to moving on a belly full of grass?
 
I would just add some oats to his feed I would try tiger oats or naked oats I would give 250 grammes per feed at first and see how you go.
My ulcer horse is absolutely fine with straight oats as part of his diet (I am only feeding in moderate quanties )
My extremely laid back TB feels great on them .
I would rather add a few oats to his releve than fed him an cereal based mix but if you decide on a mix find one with no molasses in it as my vet feels this is the real culprit .
 
deicinmerlyn said:
Perhaps it's an ex racer thing where they're just not used to moving on a belly full of grass?
Click to expand...

This^^ after speaking to people at work who used to train tbs for a living to race, they always got pretty much little to no hay the morning before and were never turned out on grass due to it bloating them out and really reducing performance. There has also been research done to compare race horses fed ad lib hay/hayledge and those fed restricted amounts and found that those fed restricted always outperformed those who were fed adlib.

Although this kinda screams ulcers!

I completely sympathise though cos you know how much a plod Rowan is! However, recently I have been riding him straight away when coming in from the field and he has actually got quite a bit of energy! But I have reduced his hay ration down and I now feed him just a handful of chaff so I am wondering whether the ploddiness last year was due to him getting a feed balancer all summer...
 
Mines had ulcers at least 3 times(due to having surgery) I tried to strip everything back to basic,non-processed food but he looked & felt rubbish. I've been using the top spec conditioning flakes for last few months(with caution as he's extremely feed sensitive with a tendency to go bonkers on most feed). He's only having a small amount but looks great & is really perky & on his toes but in a good,sensible way! I've never found anything else yet that's worked like this as he normally just loses the plot on anything that's starchy or high energy.
 
lots to think about.............

re mollases-the re-leve has it in so for him at least i dont think thats the culprit.
he doesnt have haylage in the field as he will leave it in favour of the grass (we have relaly good grass and loads of it still) so pointless puttign any out sadly :(

definately warm enough :)

is anyone using topspec on BF horses? have read a few horror stories on my researching travels today, mainly that it makes them really footy?

off to google kompeet :) does he have it all the time or just before a show?
 
I used kompeet on a connie we had in to show that wouldn't hold weight. He was on it all the time but I didn't find it did much for him at all. Top spec conditioning sent him round the twist though. I don't think I've ever seen a horse react to a feed so badly, he was practically cantering round his stable, very strange. Might work for yours though?
 
lol!
i basically need feeds that most people avoid!!!!

on list to try are:

Slobbermash-already on way :)
Topspec Turbo as is oat based, or the conditioning flakes.
Saracen speed mix as can get that easily
Kompeet or what about the Cavalor equivilants? anyone any experience?
Naked oats
 
Had a thought while I was lunging earlier about this but could some of his spark be due to the atmosphere at the winters? A lot of horses light up at a stay away show and really try.
 
I'd also try Tiger Oats. I used to feed them to my coloured mare years ago when we were out competing every weekend in one form or another. They seemed to really light her up without the silliness.
 
I think if he were mine I would be trying to avoid feeding any more starch for energy because of the ulcer issue. It would probably be safer to increase the energy density of his diet using oil. I don't work in digestible energy values only metabolisable but fats and oil have an energy content of around 34MJ/ kg DM which is why Baileys outshine has such a high DE as it has an oil content of 26%. You should be able to safely feed up to 500ml of oil per day to horses if you introduce it slowly, which is quite a lot. It is also meant to increase their energy levels without making them silly. So it might be worth giving that a go before you go out and buy loads of expensive feeds.

Having said that I know someone that uses A&P power and performance for her Grand Prix Dressage horse when he needed an energy boost but he was very hot.
 
Going by what it says on the bag, 3 scoops of Saracens Releve is only enough for a 16.2hh horse in light work. So I would increase the Releve if possible by an extra scoop or two

Also is it possible to have a higher energy haylage?
 
wispagold said:
I think if he were mine I would be trying to avoid feeding any more starch for energy because of the ulcer issue. It would probably be safer to increase the energy density of his diet using oil. I don't work in digestible energy values only metabolisable but fats and oil have an energy content of around 34MJ/ kg DM which is why Baileys outshine has such a high DE as it has an oil content of 26%. You should be able to safely feed up to 500ml of oil per day to horses if you introduce it slowly, which is quite a lot. It is also meant to increase their energy levels without making them silly. So it might be worth giving that a go before you go out and buy loads of expensive feeds.

Having said that I know someone that uses A&P power and performance for her Grand Prix Dressage horse when he needed an energy boost but he was very hot.
Click to expand...

I used vegetable oil for energy very successfully with a dressage horse that used to tie up on any energy feeds. He had Alfa A and up to 3/4 pint of oil twice a day, adjusting the quantity according to work load and energy required. He was very big and quite lazy but had sufficient energy to work well at advanced level and I needed to reduce it if he had a couple of easy days or his sharp side came out. This was so easy to do as it didn't affect his food intake.
 
I think I would avoid TS if you are worried about footiness - it definitely caused a problem for one of mine. How about sprouted oats (look at the Thunderbrook feeds website), and if you want to feed a high protein feed like micronised peas, I feed them them to my pigs & chooks so could send you a sample to avoid you having to buy a sack.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top