Cudo is raring to go.....to Kentucky!!!!

BunnyDog

BunnyDog

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I wanted to share this whole video because I think it's really important to see that not every moment with my super horse is in fact, super. We have worked a lot on getting him to relax in his work but sometimes he's still wanting to go kick on and ignore my half halts and I have to be the baddie to re-iterates that this isn't the right answer. In the middle at around 5:40 you'll see Cudo make an uncharacteristic mistake, take the rail and subsequently bolt on landing. It wasn't a fun moment but it was educational in the sense that both of us are learning that the margin for errors are MUCH smaller when the jumps are much bigger. The vertical in this case was 1.40 and the rail was a 4x4 square (Since I am in the process of painting my other round rails) No harm was done but when you see some tension and "Tranter" moments later you should understand that part of all of this is riding what you have underneath you after things don't go right. And finding a way to help get your partner back to center and trusting. He ended on a good note, but we will still do a much smaller gymnastics school before we go to help give back any confidence that may have been touched a bit.

I'm open to any questions and comments if you have any. And he's sound and happy today lounging in his stall with a fan after inhaling his breakfast this am.


Em
 
I think what I have always thought about him he has gaps in his flat work training early on and had jumped by taking charge .
I think he’s looking good in fact you both look good together .
Mistakes are part of training, he will learn to draw his eye back a bit at the bigger uprights .
The bolt was interesting I think he been reprimanded for making mistakes at some point .
 
well I'll chime in and say thank you for posting, and it's nice to get to see something unravel and get put back together quickly and without fuss.
I'd guess that in order to work on way of going in between fences then it's not really necessary to have more fences or keep changing them? Just the basics gives you enough to play with.
Hope you have a great time at Kentucky.

Oh, and I don't jump any more but single rails were my bogey fences, no thanks!! :p
 
Goldenstar said:
I think what I have always thought about him he has gaps in his flat work training early on and had jumped by taking charge .
I think he’s looking good in fact you both look good together .
Mistakes are part of training, he will learn to draw his eye back a bit at the bigger uprights .
The bolt was interesting I think he been reprimanded for making mistakes at some point .
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In point of fact he has had other occasions, much earlier on in our time together where he hit a fence and then 'scooted' after.

You can see it on this round at this next fence from where it starts. I promise I have never reprimanded him for a rail since there's no point. That's what learning is. And I really doubt he was ever reprimanded for it by his previous owner in England. I think, personally, that he REALLY hates to hit/feel a rail.


splashgirl45 said:
i query why you were jumping a single rail at that height,, and why so many times after he had jumped it well. i am not a showjumper but didnt enjoy watching i am afraid...
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Let's revisit the statistics:

At the height you queried on the left lead he jumped it 4 times. Once well, then bolt and knockdown, then regular knock down, then good.

On the right lead (As a part of the loop of the 2 jumps on the figure 8) he jumped it twice.

Then we lowered it to give him some confidence back and he jumped it at the low height 4 times. Of those 2 were good 2 could be better so I ended when we had a good one.

So that's 10 jumps over this vertical, 6 at 1.40. Our last jump school, 15 days ago (because I let him have some lighter days where we worked on fitness and flatwork) was over a course of 10 fences in our ring. We did those in series of about 6 jumps at a time.

A course of jumps at this show will be somewhere in the range of 13 jumping efforts or so in a very large arena.

This show will be a lot of work and fitness is required. The classes we're going in are around 1.30-1.35. So we're schooling 1.40 at home to have some cushion in our preparation. But if I did it your way, and quit at each jump after he did it well, which that would have been maybe once each way, because the first time on each lead he did it what I would call "good," we would have had very little big fence schooling before a big show.

Let us not forget, this is my first horse at the level and my finances are such that I can't afford a second 1.30 horse so my education and experience and practice is all on Cudo. Now, I do not run him into the ground and if it's all going perfect I will stop some days. But other days, especially as we prep for more outings this fall, I know it benefits both of us to practice more at home on known footing over courses I can control (No funky distances, fences etc) so we can school less at shows and go straight into the ring.

FWIW: Here's a link to a round from the 1.30 class at the show were going to next week, from this am during their week 1 of this 2 week show. You can see the size of the arena and diversity of the fences. For those who think it looks familiar, this is the same arena that the Kentucky CCI5* is held in.

https://www.shownet.biz/Freeview/Pl...EIDDPE4MTsP8lzhrB3u7jdVbfs7Ry73b8zdlAK8-2GHjg


Tiddlypom said:
It looked like a long session with just two jumps.

What was the idea of the single rail?

I kept thinking that you’d pat him and stop the session, but you kept on going. Cudo looked pretty warm and sweaty.
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It was start to finish 25 mins total. From walk into ring to walk out of ring.

The single rail at first was the warm up, then part of the loop, then a way to do just the vertical before adding the oxer. It held the following challenges each direction:

Left lead coming out of the corner Cudo doesn't always sit on his butt and wait so we worked on that.

Right lead, coming on a long approach he can see the jump and start to lean into my hand and lengthen his stride so we worked on him staying in balance and waiting.

I patted him a bunch and am always talking to him.

I could be misunderstanding the term "Single rail." Is the question about verticals in general or because it was 1 rail without ground lines etc?

I have used a single rail vertical to school for a long time. Easily 20 years. I like it a bit better for my own eye line and the horses have to focus on where to take off a bit more since it's not defined for them. I think it's useful as there are no ground rails in jumpers, barring open water.

Thanks @milliepops and @Goldenstar


Em
 
BunnyDog said:
A course of jumps at this show will be somewhere in the range of 13 jumping efforts or so in a very large arena.

This show will be a lot of work and fitness is required. The classes we're going in are around 1.30-1.35. So we're schooling 1.40 at home to have some cushion in our preparation. But if I did it your way, and quit at each jump after he did it well, which that would have been maybe once each way, because the first time on each lead he did it what I would call "good," we would have had very little big fence schooling before a big show.
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different discipline but something I am learning at the moment is the need to do "enough" practice.
Because I am doing a sport that is hard for my not-built-for-it horse, I am mindful of not overdoing things because I don't want to break her. My instinct is to stop after a good line of tempis, or a good half pass or whatever, and pat her and finish. But that doesn't give either of us enough fitness or enough feel of "right" so I'm having to thing about this in a different way, maybe do fewer days or work on one or 2 things in a session rather than 3 or 4, so we can do enough of each to make an impact... it's so hard to find the balance! urghhh! what you have said above makes sense to me.
 
I don’t think that was a long session I jump my horse alone for thirty mins when I am at my trainer .
Being able to jump the same fence consistently is a very good thing to practise .
I am surprised that anyone thinks that was a lot of work for a horse competing at 1.30 a horse at that level needs to fit and have stamina in the arena .
 
Single rails (i.e. no ground lines) are fine (I jump them) but I do think the dull rail makes the fence difficult to read.

Cudo looks more tense now than any other time you've posted I think. I remember in your first videos of him, he bumbled along in a nice easy rhythm with his ears pricked, and in the last few videos he looks like he's just fighting the whole time/anxious. It seems like the tranter comes from you trying to hold him off the fence too much and then him panicking about where to put his legs.
 
SpringArising said:
Single rails (i.e. no ground lines) are fine (I jump them) but I do think the dull rail makes the fence difficult to read.

Cudo looks more tense now than any other time you've posted I think. I remember in your first videos of him, he bumbled along in a nice easy rhythm with his ears pricked, and in the last few videos he looks like he's just fighting the whole time/anxious. It seems like the tranter comes from you trying to hold him off the fence too much and then him panicking about where to put his legs.
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See, I would agree. But I don't think the anxiety is his and his alone. I think he feels me getting a bit wound up about the higher level, less room for error, and pushing beyond my own limits and unfortunately it's new to him too and I believe that we feed off of each other. That, to me, is why this show in Kentucky has become important. It'll be the first time where we can go and do more more than 2-3 classes in the span of a show and be able to walk in and out of a ring doing our job for successive days. To this point at the 1.20 and above level the best we've had was the awful show last fall of American Gold cup where we were able to do 1 class, 3 days in a row at 1.20-1.25. That wasn't our greatest outing (2 rounds with a stop and 1 with a rail) but we grew from it. I am hopeful that Kentucky will allow both of our minds to see that we are capable and the pressure I put on myself and Cudo at home can be relaxed as this will be our 4th show at the level and with a littany of classes to choose from to ride in for 5 straight days, well hopefully we can both believe in our strengths a bit more afterwards. I know I believe in him but I don't always show it as well when I am battling my own demons. I mean really, this is hard and very expensive.

Add in our recent biting issues and changes and lack of shows that we can easily go to for prep, including having to skip our last prep show for ky due to excessive heat and it does build up. Part of getting better as a horseman and rider is pulling back on the pressure put on the horse. I would say I am better than last year but I am human and by no means perfect. Cudo is trying so hard and Richard suggested that he's the type that wants to do his best and gets upset when he can't do what he thinks I want. Which the irony is that I am the same and always afraid I am letting him down. We are a team, he nickers to me daily and loves to snuggle, for a German muffin of course. I love him to the moon and back if not more. But at the end of the day we do have our things that need improving. Just like most horse and riders.

Em
 
Interesting to watch, thanks 😊

Is there a reason you don’t use a ground pole or a pole to “fill” under the single fence?

I’m kinda in mind set of others as it was very “Samey” between the jumps so he could potentially be more prone to rush/think less of the jump and lead to a scenario where he stops thinking about his feet. I think I’d maybe have a few more flatwork movements in between the jump patterns, like shoulder in or leg yield to keep him “open” through body and mind thinking. Even a pole on ground in corner to canter over occasionally. I do understand though why you were doing it, consistency is hard to get on a horse and stamina is something that maybe gets overlooked sometimes.
One of my fave exercises on a clever horse/one that rushes/babies is to have the jumps set up like you have but also a pole on the ground beside each fence, so sometimes you jump the fence and other times you just go over the pole. Simple but keeps them focusing on you as well!

He looks well! Has come so far with you! 😄
 
I understand exactly what you mean about trying to get the higher height with a horse who also hasn't done it before. I get really scared by showjumping bigger fences, and I tried and tried to get 3ft 11 needed to go intermediate cross country (which I found much easier!) and failed. I admire the way you are working at your goal, and I think you are very brave to post about the difficulties. Good luck for Kentucky!
 
Thanks again for posting, it’s very interesting, and good luck for Kentucky.
I was wondering if you had any particular aims for the schooling session?

I often make a similar mistake as at 5.45 - in my case due to my iffy eye for a stride. At the risk of asking a thick question, were you trying to alter the stride coming into the fence but he wasn’t listening?
 
Reacher said:
Thanks again for posting, it’s very interesting, and good luck for Kentucky.
I was wondering if you had any particular aims for the schooling session?

I often make a similar mistake as at 5.45 - in my case due to my iffy eye for a stride. At the risk of asking a thick question, were you trying to alter the stride coming into the fence but he wasn’t listening?
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No. I wasn't trying to change anything much. I wanted a bit more of a wait and push from behind feeling but I didn't have the distance right, but I thought I did in the turn. From the turn 3 sides was too long and to put it nicely 4 was into the wood grain of the rail. It just was wrong.

Now the next attempt I swung further towards the arena fence to try to add those 6 missing feet back but I ended up long. Then I tried the inside of the original track and had 2 non present moments because the voices in my head were screaming at me that I was wrong and I sucked. (Who hasn't been there! )
Then finally at 6:34, after a walk break and a pep talk from John, my head was better and Cudo gave me one of his hind end 'bunny' steps to adjust his stride length and that helped to get it right.

So no before the mistake I hadn't been trying to change anything, but certainly after it, I was working hard to find the right stride out of the corner to not worry him (and me!) again.

As for goals I was trying to work on the Equi Sale pattern and try to duplicate the easiness that their horses show over this setup. It's not easy!

Here's an older video of what they do.

I wanted to expose myself to the height one more time. We did well with a pair of 1.40 oxers in the course school two weeks ago, so a vertical felt logical. In 6 months I would expect that I would prep with smaller fences once I get over my butterflies.

Emily
 
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I am very old fashioned and think horses only have a certain amount of jumps in them. I feel you jump cudo too often and too long. He knows his job now and perhaps you need to ride other horses to get your confidence up. Could you not go for schoolmaster lessons? I do feel you are running the risk of turning him sour. I also feel jumping so high without a ground line is unfair.
 
blodwyn1 said:
I also feel jumping so high without a ground line is unfair.
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Most fences in competition at more than a metre have no ground line.

The horse should be focussed on what it needs to clear, not any of the many and varied distracting things which might be underneath it.


PS that horse for sale in that video is unsound, Em.
 
ycbm said:
Most fences in competition at more than a metre have no ground line.

The horse should be focussed on what it needs to clear, not any of the many and varied distracting things which might be underneath it.
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But they aren’t just single poles in a jump - they will always be “filled” underneath the top pole with fillers/water tray or more poles.

Just wondering why BD didn’t have any, not saying should have but genuinely would like to know reasons as could incorporate into my own training sessions if I know benefits!
 
I jump a lot with no ground lines at home ( actually I don’t jump at all atm but that’s another story ) the horse has have good eye to feet coordination to be a good jumper it helps to develop the horses skills to have no ground line .I often jump one fence without a ground line repeatedly on a circle working towards being able to jump it the same way each time .
This helps you develop your eye the horses eye and the best jumping canter .
 
blodwyn1 said:
I am very old fashioned and think horses only have a certain amount of jumps in them. I feel you jump cudo too often and too long. He knows his job now and perhaps you need to ride other horses to get your confidence up. Could you not go for schoolmaster lessons? I do feel you are running the risk of turning him sour. I also feel jumping so high without a ground line is unfair.
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I don't really think any response I give to your opinions will soften your mindset on my choices. You're welcome to your opinion, I thank you for sharing it but I would only remind you that I too am a living breathing person with feelings. I fully understand when I post anything that I could be met with differing opinions and/ or people who think negative things about me and share them. I may understand it's possible but that doesn't mean that I don't get a bit upset when an implication is made that I'm not doing right by Cudo. You don't know me as a real person so maybe that makes it easier to say these things. Or maybe you would tell me off in a car park in England as well. I don't know. But I promise you I'm doing my absolute best to give him, and my other horses, the best life I can. I do all his care. He's got physio, farrier, vet, body worker at his disposal. The fluffiest straw in his stall and the best hay I can afford. We are meticulous about the footing he works on and ensuring that he's properly prepared for any outings.

To answer your questions, I have never seen a barn that offered lessons on a schoolmaster that does 1.40m. To be honest where I am is eventing mecca, there's not a jumper trainer in the immediate area. The closest jumper barns that do exist don't have lesson horses at all. And they cost $150/hr so that's not in my budget. Also being able to jump a different horse over bigger jumps doesn't help when it's Cudo and I on course at a show.

Do any of your lesson barns in England have lesson horses that jump less than Cudo? He's had 2 jump schools in all of July. Half hour or less each time. And totally ironically, the last jump school before this on 7/8 the ring was full of jumps with fillers and ground lines!

I think that since Cudo didn't start consistently jumping until he came to England as a 7 year old that he's got far less lifetime jumps than a lot of other horses. That said I am still extremely judicious with how much we do, but as @Goldenstar pointed out, horses at his level need a certain amount of fitness to compete in a prepared fashion. I could jump 6 jumps at home but I would feel it's far less fair to lean on the "he knows what he's doing" diddie when he will be jumping 13 jumps per course at a show. And, God willing, another 8 if we jump off. His body needs some jumps to be fit to jump courses.

ycbm said:
PS that horse for sale in that video is unsound, Em.
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The funny thing is I only watched maybe 2 seconds of the video to ensure that it showed the pattern of jumps that I was duplicating in my school. I actually had to dig pretty far back since all the winter sales horses have presumably sold and they're doing videos in their outdoor now. Thanks for letting me know but that video is 3 years old and I imagine the horse is long sold.

Em
 
only_me said:
But they aren’t just single poles in a jump - they will always be “filled” underneath the top pole with fillers/water tray or more poles.

Just wondering why BD didn’t have any, not saying should have but genuinely would like to know reasons as could incorporate into my own training sessions if I know benefits!
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Sorry @only_me I missed your question in my earlier response and couldn't edit to add to it. So you get your own post! :)

If you follow the link for this video you can see the past videos. The 7/8 schooling video is a course of jumps in my ring and I believe most actually had a ground line. I did get the build of the 'swedish' not exactly right and we misread it a few times, the last time when he jumped it cleanly I had pulled the filler out 6" to be technically in front of the height and filler rails and then it clicked. So there are a few go rounds of trying to figure out that issue and in the end it took moving something 6". I gave him ground rails that day because I was working on getting distances right and the goal was to add strides and I didn't want the fence take off open for interpretation.

In this school without ground lines there's a couple factors and they're not all horse related. 1 was that all my round rails are in the barn being painted and that left only pvc rails and a couple other 4x4's. I honestly just thought that nothing on the ground was better than these and it was easier to set up and take down. Both challenges (Coming out of a turn, or a long approach) the striding is in flux depending on which line you take and how much pace, impulsion and direction that you have. Even though it seems silly to say that a ground line can change things a lot, it can affect where the horse takes off as it makes the take off point a finite thing. And as mentioned before the fences in jumpers don't typically have ground lines so it didn't bother me. Going back further, I just always liked jumping single rails. At one barn I worked at (Circa age 24 yrs old aka 1995) the trainer always did this. I just never minded. So I have done it myself when setting fences in a ring to school. Not everytime, but definitely it's there in the rotations. I would say that if you don't like them, I wouldn't use them. No sense getting yourself keyed up when riding is hard enough as is.

Emily
 
If you're interested Luciana Diniz posts some jump schooling ideas on her instagram page (and possibly elsewhere, I don't know). I've not tried them but her butterfly schooling patterns look interesting for horse and rider and some ideas like that could be useful if you don't have a trainer nearby.
 
puppystitch said:
If you're interested Luciana Diniz posts some jump schooling ideas on her instagram page (and possibly elsewhere, I don't know). I've not tried them but her butterfly schooling patterns look interesting for horse and rider and some ideas like that could be useful if you don't have a trainer nearby.
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I am a huge fan of the Butterfly exercises, I really wish that she would do an American clinic!!!! And interestingly Fit For Fun, arguably her top horse, is herself out of an Escudo I mare while Cudo is sired by Escudo I. So while I wouldn't go so far as to call them family, Cudo and that awesome mare are sharing some similar DNA.

I don't lack for course ideas as I own nearly every book out there and I am a subscriber with SO many online sites for videos and such, it's just that after a full day at the office (8 hours) and doing the barn when I get up and mucking after work I simply lack to enthusiasm to drag the jumps into a complex pattern that often. We only jump 1 day a week or less and more often than not you can build less and learn more. But I am a huge fan of Luciana so I love that you love her courses too.

Em

ETA: Before I forget I was delighted to see that the show is on Clip My Horse with Full Coverage. So you can see this week's rounds online. It will be a different course designer for us next week but the people I am competing against should be pretty much the same.

https://www.clipmyhorse.tv/en_US/events/3587/kentucky-summer-horse-show
 
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BunnyDog said:
At one barn I worked at (Circa age 24 yrs old aka 1995) the trainer always did this. I just never minded. So I have done it myself when setting fences in a ring to school. Not everytime, but definitely it's there in the rotations. I would say that if you don't like them, I wouldn't use them. No sense getting yourself keyed up when riding is hard enough as is.
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Interesting, I was closely involved with a number of international showjumpers in the '90s, and while I don't remember any of them schooling over single rails with any frequency, they did use them as a means of testing a horse's self awareness and ability, particularly if they were trialling it to buy. So you'd set up your single rail, come off the turn and basically leave the horse alone to sort itself out.
 
I was always taught fences should have a ground line but have realised this is not necessarily needed as the years have gone on. I remember when I was show jumping my Grade A one year at the Royal Highland circa 1984 the course builder caught loads of experienced horses out with having a single plank with no ground line. The other catch was a treble built on a curving line with two strides between each element. AFAIR it was a speed class so not as high as some classes but it really caused problems for a fair number of horses.
 
Rowreach said:
Interesting, I was closely involved with a number of international showjumpers in the '90s, and while I don't remember any of them schooling over single rails with any frequency, they did use them as a means of testing a horse's self awareness and ability, particularly if they were trialling it to buy. So you'd set up your single rail, come off the turn and basically leave the horse alone to sort itself out.
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Full disclosure that was an eventing barn and in the 90's generally people were all about horse's being able to figure themselves out without the rider having to help place them just right for a jump.

Sorry I should have clarified. I know my background was Eventing but not everyone here does.

Em
 
BunnyDog said:
Full disclosure that was an eventing barn and in the 90's generally people were all about horse's being able to figure themselves out without the rider having to help place them just right for a jump.

Sorry I should have clarified. I know my background was Eventing but not everyone here does.

Em
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Interesting again. Groundlines are so important in eventing, which is why things like upright gates (memories of Pippa Funnell having the same rotational on two different horses one year at Huntsmans Close) are dressed at the bottom these days.
 
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