Cudo is raring to go.....to Kentucky!!!!

I usually lurk here, but just wanted to weigh in supporting a few things @BunnyDog said earlier, as a fellow North American. FWIW, I also compete and am a former FEI groom, having worked and toured with a member of my national team.

On this side of the pond a decent 1.40M horse with the brain to handle an amatuer's mistakes is easily a six-figure proposition. Heck, some of them LEASE for six figures a year! There are really no 1.40M school horses. The closest thing I've seen are a handful of former GP horses who burned out mentally and fry up going to a show, but can still physically do the job happily at home where there's no pressure. Even those are few and far between. And lessons on them are not cheap by any stretch. And their owners/trainers do not just let you come ride them in a one-off lesson. You're in the full program.

Our rated shows are typically five-day affairs. A general schedule for a 1.30 or 1.40 horse may involve a schooling trip, and two or three competitive classes over the span of the week. Each class is about 13 jumping efforts plus 8 in the jump off. Plus, of course, warm-up jumps. When you are jumping a course at 1.40, you can't just pop 'em over one or two small jumps in warm up and go in the ring. It's more typical to need 10 or 12 warm up jumps (of increasing height and width). So let's call it in the area of 25-30 jumps for each competitive class.

These horses have to be FIT, and accustomed to jumping more than a handful of jumps in a session, or we'd risk serious injury to the animal. Not what anyone wants.

Let's just remember that a typical modified GP or an open jumper class is 1.45-1.5M, with FEI getting to 1.5-1.6M. What we're looking at here with Cudo is a potential grand prix horse in the making. Horses do not achieve this by jumping five or six jumps in a typical schooling session. They need to be properly prepared -- mentally and physically -- for the task. And that takes practice.

Also, that crazy heat you guys are experiencing this week? That is NORMAL temperature in July/August in Kentucky, where Cudo will be competing. Heck, it's fully normal here in my part of Canada in the summertime. It is, in fact, 32*C outside my door at this precise moment. When I get on my horse to school tomorrow, it is forecast to be 36*C. Now, we are more used to it than y'all are. But it still requires a degree of fitness, along with extra management. Our good show venues, for example, have misters and fans for the horses ringside.

The flip side is that we have winter. And here, at least, we have winter in a big way. Most riders in North America who are not either professional trainers or independently wealthy amateurs who can afford to head to Florida, Arizona or California for the winter circuits, typically hibernate for large parts of November to March. Because even with an indoor, you are not riding when it's -40*C! We do a lot of flat work in the winter. Lots of caveletti and pole exercises. When we do jump, we usually jump under our usual competition height (at least in my program).

As for the single-rail (no groundlines) vertical, I have typically seen that used as a somewhat trappy test. It can help sharpen a not-so-careful horse, or can help back off one who gets a bit aggressive to the base. I've also used it to help a horse that tends to drop his eye down to look at the fill stay up off the forehand and get a better bascule. For the rider, it is a difficult accuracy test used to develop a better eye (that's why it can also be dangerous on cross country, where the jumps don't fall down if you miss).

Now, Em, forgive me if I am wrong, as I have not watched all your videos, but from what I can see here, Cudo is quite careful (hence big reaction when he does have a rail), and more apt to try to take over when he is not sure about the question (as opposed to falling behind your leg)? If so, do you find this kind of exercise helps? From the video, it looks like once he recovered his wavelegnth after the rail reaction earlier on, he got more and more rideable.

Also, thank you for not using PVC rails as ground lines. I've seen more than one horrific stitching job as a result of a horse stepping on one!
 
Interesting again. Groundlines are so important in eventing, which is why things like upright gates (memories of Pippa Funnell having the same rotational on two different horses one year at Huntsmans Close) are dressed at the bottom these days.
That's all well and true but in the 90's in the USA we had people who schooled this stuff some. I don't know what to tell you. She may have just thought it was a good exercise based on her own experiences, and she was 50+ at the time and had ridden up through the levels. I remember some nasty ground line less hanging logs on xc courses at that time too.

Em
 
Full disclosure that was an eventing barn and in the 90's generally people were all about horse's being able to figure themselves out without the rider having to help place them just right for a jump.

Sorry I should have clarified. I know my background was Eventing but not everyone here does.

Em
I was also taught to let the horse figure out his stride rather than placing him. However I haven't jumped at your level. What sj level did you find you had to change and start placing to the fence?
 
I’m not really getting the Eventing debate.

To this day horses all over are schooling in the arena without groundlines at times. Mine included, and the much more established ones. So what was happening in eventer barns in 80/90’s is probably still happening.

It helps sharpen them up and keep them careful (or more careful than they might be for the eventer 😂). But let’s remember they fall down!

So the issue with XC is more the fixed nature and the catastrophic potential for mistake with no ground line. Thankfully pins are helping this a lot, seen some very upright open coffin rails / upright gates at novice level (1.10m) this year but all on mims and most likely with a scattering of wood chip
 
Interesting again. Groundlines are so important in eventing, which is why things like upright gates (memories of Pippa Funnell having the same rotational on two different horses one year at Huntsmans Close) are dressed at the bottom these days.
I have never jumped at anything like the level that the OP does (did very occasionally pop a single 4’6”/1.34m ish fence), but I came up through Pony Club in the 70s being taught that having a ground line was important so that the horse can judge its stride. It’s interesting to hear why doing without one in training on a knockdownable fence can sometimes be of benefit.
 
I was also taught to let the horse figure out his stride rather than placing him. However I haven't jumped at your level. What sj level did you find you had to change and start placing to the fence?

I also used to hear this a lot, although less and less now I'm jumping a bit bigger (1m+ so obviously still very small compared to these!). If I left my horse to it at the bigger heights I think we would both lose our confidence seriously quickly! I can't imagine coming round the corner to a wide 1.10 oxer and thinking 'leave the horse to sort it out' 😂

So I'd also really like to know BD's thoughts behind it and how you seem to get good distances most of the time - as this is something I am working on (or maybe the trick actually is just to leave the horse to it!).

I know lots of pros say to let the horse figure it out for themselves, but when you watch them even they are adjusting the stride - they just do it so far away you can't even notice and it looks smooth!
 
Thanks for posting and I do love Cudo he is fab. For me I just think he’s missing a bit of flat work schooling. I don’t see cudo make a mistake in the video I see him coming to a fence with no ground line and a camouflaged pole on a shocker of a stride and still give it a go rather than run out or stop. This is where us as riders need to have the control on the flat to either sit and wait for the shorter or be able to push for the longer while still keeping the bounce in the hind leg when we don’t quite have the right stride. That’s a massive part of show jumping especially for those wanting to go round the bigger tracks, there’s only so many times even a good horse with take a leg wrapping for being put into a fence wrong before they start jacking it. Maybe take some time out the bigger single fence type schooling work on some flat work and multiple lower fences.
 
Thanks for posting and I do love Cudo he is fab. For me I just think he’s missing a bit of flat work schooling. I don’t see cudo make a mistake in the video I see him coming to a fence with no ground line and a camouflaged pole on a shocker of a stride and still give it a go rather than run out or stop. This is where us as riders need to have the control on the flat to either sit and wait for the shorter or be able to push for the longer while still keeping the bounce in the hind leg when we don’t quite have the right stride. That’s a massive part of show jumping especially for those wanting to go round the bigger tracks, there’s only so many times even a good horse with take a leg wrapping for being put into a fence wrong before they start jacking it. Maybe take some time out the bigger single fence type schooling work on some flat work and multiple lower fences.


I agree with this to an extent but I do think BD generally has a good eye and places Cudo well most of the time - especially when at shows as opposed to schooling.

But yes I agree the knock down wasn't Cudo's mistake - I thought it was just a bad miss to a very unforgiving jump! I know that if tried to get my horse over this even at 1.20 with that same shot he would have done the same, either crashed through it because he's a trier or stopped - and I wouldn't have blamed him for it at all. I think the fact that Cudo is generally careful and hates having a pole makes the fact that he actually tried to jump it even more impressive.
 
I usually lurk here, but just wanted to weigh in supporting a few things @BunnyDog said earlier, as a fellow North American. FWIW, I also compete and am a former FEI groom, having worked and toured with a member of my national team.

On this side of the pond a decent 1.40M horse with the brain to handle an amatuer's mistakes is easily a six-figure proposition. Heck, some of them LEASE for six figures a year! There are really no 1.40M school horses. The closest thing I've seen are a handful of former GP horses who burned out mentally and fry up going to a show, but can still physically do the job happily at home where there's no pressure. Even those are few and far between. And lessons on them are not cheap by any stretch. And their owners/trainers do not just let you come ride them in a one-off lesson. You're in the full program.

Our rated shows are typically five-day affairs. A general schedule for a 1.30 or 1.40 horse may involve a schooling trip, and two or three competitive classes over the span of the week. Each class is about 13 jumping efforts plus 8 in the jump off. Plus, of course, warm-up jumps. When you are jumping a course at 1.40, you can't just pop 'em over one or two small jumps in warm up and go in the ring. It's more typical to need 10 or 12 warm up jumps (of increasing height and width). So let's call it in the area of 25-30 jumps for each competitive class.

These horses have to be FIT, and accustomed to jumping more than a handful of jumps in a session, or we'd risk serious injury to the animal. Not what anyone wants.

Let's just remember that a typical modified GP or an open jumper class is 1.45-1.5M, with FEI getting to 1.5-1.6M. What we're looking at here with Cudo is a potential grand prix horse in the making. Horses do not achieve this by jumping five or six jumps in a typical schooling session. They need to be properly prepared -- mentally and physically -- for the task. And that takes practice.

Also, that crazy heat you guys are experiencing this week? That is NORMAL temperature in July/August in Kentucky, where Cudo will be competing. Heck, it's fully normal here in my part of Canada in the summertime. It is, in fact, 32*C outside my door at this precise moment. When I get on my horse to school tomorrow, it is forecast to be 36*C. Now, we are more used to it than y'all are. But it still requires a degree of fitness, along with extra management. Our good show venues, for example, have misters and fans for the horses ringside.

The flip side is that we have winter. And here, at least, we have winter in a big way. Most riders in North America who are not either professional trainers or independently wealthy amateurs who can afford to head to Florida, Arizona or California for the winter circuits, typically hibernate for large parts of November to March. Because even with an indoor, you are not riding when it's -40*C! We do a lot of flat work in the winter. Lots of caveletti and pole exercises. When we do jump, we usually jump under our usual competition height (at least in my program).

As for the single-rail (no groundlines) vertical, I have typically seen that used as a somewhat trappy test. It can help sharpen a not-so-careful horse, or can help back off one who gets a bit aggressive to the base. I've also used it to help a horse that tends to drop his eye down to look at the fill stay up off the forehand and get a better bascule. For the rider, it is a difficult accuracy test used to develop a better eye (that's why it can also be dangerous on cross country, where the jumps don't fall down if you miss).

Now, Em, forgive me if I am wrong, as I have not watched all your videos, but from what I can see here, Cudo is quite careful (hence big reaction when he does have a rail), and more apt to try to take over when he is not sure about the question (as opposed to falling behind your leg)? If so, do you find this kind of exercise helps? From the video, it looks like once he recovered his wavelegnth after the rail reaction earlier on, he got more and more rideable.

Also, thank you for not using PVC rails as ground lines. I've seen more than one horrific stitching job as a result of a horse stepping on one!

This is 100% spot on.

Thanks so much @Adorable. I'm sorry I didn't see your post until this am thanks to hectic times as we prep to leave.

Yes he became much more rideable as the school went on. A bit of the tension remained, as was noted earlier in the thread, which was unfortunate but he did his job and was solid about it.

We're packing today and leaving tonight so I apologize but I need a bit of time to answer the other questions. But I will come back to them.

In the process I also have to mow 4 acres and take a load to the dump today so by the time we leave tonight I should be good and tired!

10-11 hours (612 miles) in the truck and trailer and we're shipping when it's cooler for Cudo's sake. So should be good. Nervous because leaving my 4 dogs and other 2 horses and my job for a week is hard but it should be a good time. Lots out there to learn. And of course there's time to visit the Bourbon distilleries. Ha ha ha. John's favorite part.

Em
 
This is 100% spot on.

Thanks so much @Adorable. I'm sorry I didn't see your post until this am thanks to hectic times as we prep to leave.

Yes he became much more rideable as the school went on. A bit of the tension remained, as was noted earlier in the thread, which was unfortunate but he did his job and was solid about it.

We're packing today and leaving tonight so I apologize but I need a bit of time to answer the other questions. But I will come back to them.

In the process I also have to mow 4 acres and take a load to the dump today so by the time we leave tonight I should be good and tired!

10-11 hours (612 miles) in the truck and trailer and we're shipping when it's cooler for Cudo's sake. So should be good. Nervous because leaving my 4 dogs and other 2 horses and my job for a week is hard but it should be a good time. Lots out there to learn. And of course there's time to visit the Bourbon distilleries. Ha ha ha. John's favorite part.

Em
Good luck with the show. Enjoy yourself and be sure to let us know how you get on x
 
This is a really interesting thread. I'm not qualified to comment on the ins and outs, but it's interesting to read the rationalisation of the decisions taken. I admire your commitment to your goal, BD, and I hope Kentucky goes well.
 
Cheers! I love showing at the Horse Park. Haven't been in many years, but I remember it as one of the prettiest and most efficient shows. And yes, make time for sightseeing!
 
Cheers! I love showing at the Horse Park. Haven't been in many years, but I remember it as one of the prettiest and most efficient shows. And yes, make time for sightseeing!

We have some good sightseeing planned.

So the part that's funny and yes even a little bit worrisome is that I have a 50% win average at the Horse Park.

Back in 2015 I won my division (Field Hunters = Fox Hunters in essence) of the Thoroughbred Makeover Project and for that took home a check for $5000!! Very fun. and the jumps were only 2'6" (0.76m).

The only other time I have been there to compete was in 1996 in an eventing competition held at the Intermediate level. I broke my collarbone in 4 places on xc and ended up in the hospital for 2 days, before then having to fly home with my mom and spent 14 weeks on the bench.

I'm really hopeful we lean towards the middle ground between these two experiences!!!!!

Got dump run done, may make some time to wash and wax the truck too before we hit the road. Hmmm....

Em
 
I agree re. interesting read. I don't think there's many 1m 40 lesson horses over here either!

iirc he was running off a bit after lines when you were at the multi-day clinic? Or have I got that wrong. I just wondered if that connected with his reaction to hitting the fence here, albeit not quite so much!
 
We have some good sightseeing planned.

So the part that's funny and yes even a little bit worrisome is that I have a 50% win average at the Horse Park.

Back in 2015 I won my division (Field Hunters = Fox Hunters in essence) of the Thoroughbred Makeover Project and for that took home a check for $5000!! Very fun. and the jumps were only 2'6" (0.76m).

The only other time I have been there to compete was in 1996 in an eventing competition held at the Intermediate level. I broke my collarbone in 4 places on xc and ended up in the hospital for 2 days, before then having to fly home with my mom and spent 14 weeks on the bench.

I'm really hopeful we lean towards the middle ground between these two experiences!!!!!

Got dump run done, may make some time to wash and wax the truck too before we hit the road. Hmmm....

Em

Zoinks! Stick to hacking the x-country course this time!
 
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