Current horse prices...

Rollin, it's a shame (in a way) that she's not 14.2 (or even 150cm), as the prices for competition poneys are astronomical.

We have a fairly local PFS stud, and their bigger ponies go for upwards of 13-15k at 4yo with very little experience or record. We have "lots" of them on the yard, and although the jumping is bred into them, they often arrive being able to jump a metre with their eyes closed, they can't trot in a straight line.

Horse prices in France are generally much higher than the UK, imho, decent competition prospects climb over 20k very easily.
 
I don't think your mare would be hard to sell Rollin. Your big problem is being in France, with the best market For her in The UK. Unless of course there's a big following for Arabs in France?

There is a group of amateurs who love Arabs, mainly female and would be delighted to be jumping one. Just like there are Connie lovers who want one for more serious competition. I would put her up on horsequest and offer X amount off the price to cover travel expenses if someone comes to try her and buys her. To make it attractive to travel.

She looks a really nice jumper, and her record is brilliant. Can I ask you though, have you ever loose jumped her over a big fence to see what she can do? Just wondered in case she could go to a high level, in which case she'll be worth a fair amount.
 
Casey76 said:
Rollin, it's a shame (in a way) that she's not 14.2 (or even 150cm), as the prices for competition poneys are astronomical.

We have a fairly local PFS stud, and their bigger ponies go for upwards of 13-15k at 4yo with very little experience or record. We have "lots" of them on the yard, and although the jumping is bred into them, they often arrive being able to jump a metre with their eyes closed, they can't trot in a straight line.

Horse prices in France are generally much higher than the UK, imho, decent competition prospects climb over 20k very easily.
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I have a ShaxCB by the same sire as our filly or sale she is only 14.2hh. Her dam was a Chapman CB, i.e. a small CB. The dam qualified for the Scottish Masters as a small show hunter and also won the Royal Highland Society Perpetual Trophy as a Riding Club Horse. Dam sire was the first CB stallion to be NASTA performance tested.
 
Irish gal said:
She looks a really nice jumper, and her record is brilliant. Can I ask you though, have you ever loose jumped her over a big fence to see what she can do? Just wondered in case she could go to a high level, in which case she'll be worth a fair amount.
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This. And also has she been XC?
What is your target market for her?
 
Irish gal said:
I don't think your mare would be hard to sell Rollin. Your big problem is being in France, with the best market For her in The UK. Unless of course there's a big following for Arabs in France?

There is a group of amateurs who love Arabs, mainly female and would be delighted to be jumping one. Just like there are Connie lovers who want one for more serious competition. I would put her up on horsequest and offer X amount off the price to cover travel expenses if someone comes to try her and buys her. To make it attractive to travel.

She looks a really nice jumper, and her record is brilliant. Can I ask you though, have you ever loose jumped her over a big fence to see what she can do? Just wondered in case she could go to a high level, in which case she'll be worth a fair amount.
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Amazingly the only championships for young horses 'in-hand' in France are for SF and Anglo Arabs!! It is very difficult to get our youngsters out between 1 and 4 years old. Remember that Napoleon loved Arabians, his grey Marengo, wounded at Waterloo was taken to the UK where he stood as a stallion, I think, in Suffolk. The Cadre Noir's origins were 1815 like all classical dressage it was originally a Cavalry School.

I have not advertised my mare yet other than on the Shagya France website where the 'wrong' picture has been posted for the last year...sigh.
 
Casey76 said:
Rollin, it's a shame (in a way) that she's not 14.2 (or even 150cm), as the prices for competition poneys are astronomical.

We have a fairly local PFS stud, and their bigger ponies go for upwards of 13-15k at 4yo with very little experience or record. We have "lots" of them on the yard, and although the jumping is bred into them, they often arrive being able to jump a metre with their eyes closed, they can't trot in a straight line.

Horse prices in France are generally much higher than the UK, imho, decent competition prospects climb over 20k very easily.
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That's very interesting, we get lots of French dealers over here and no wonder! She might be easier sold in France so Rollin and for bigger money. But I would be trying her over a 1.40 fence and see with how much ease she can cope with it. If it's not a problem go higher and if she can clear comfortably then I would be having a complete rethink. Horses with the potential to go to the high levels are selling for huge sums.

Out of interest Casey what are nice all-rounders, like horses for BE90/100 making in France and nice all-rounder ponies?
 
No she has not evented but did some endurance as a 4 year old. Brave, coping with water cannons and a ford first time out. Her first ever competition she jumped a water jump without hesitation and has competed is some appalling conditions in the spring

The pedigree does give stamina and interestingly her first jumping lessons, in our village, were with a member of the 2012 French Eventing Team - he rated her highly.

Sorry we won't ask her to jump 1.40m at the moment. She is only 6 years old and 16h - many French breeders will but we don't start our jumping until they are 5.
 
Rollin said:
No she has not evented but did some endurance as a 4 year old. Brave, coping with water cannons and a ford first time out. Her first ever competition she jumped a water jump without hesitation and has competed is some appalling conditions in the spring

The pedigree does give stamina and interestingly her first jumping lessons, in our village, were with a member of the 2012 French Eventing Team - he rated her highly.

Sorry we won't ask her to jump 1.40m at the moment. She is only 6 years old and 16h - many French breeders will but we don't start our jumping until they are 5.
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I complete understand BUT I can't work out if you actually want to sell her and if so what as?
She's nice. But there lots of nice horses out there.
At the moment, for me, she would be tricky to sell for big/reasonable money. Unless you really go to town with the production and marketing you will be limited to people looking for an Arab mare, possibly to incorporate into a breeding program.
 
Irish gal said:
Out of interest Casey what are nice all-rounders, like horses for BE90/100 making in France and nice all-rounder ponies?
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Well, much like England, it is a bit of how-long-is-a-bit-of-string. in France there are several factors which come into play.

Breeding: To compete higher than club level your horse has to be a registered breed, which includes both the mare and stallion being certified/approved that year for breeding. Many commonly available breeds in the UK, like ISH are not recognized in France, so there are an abundance of SF, various WBs and AAs.

Having full papers adds a premium to the price as they can then compete in Amateur/Pro classes - where actual money can be won (opposed to gifts /items in lieu of money).

Club 1 / Club Elite is about 1m both SJ and ODE, and is where most leisure riders cap out, mainly because the license and entry fees for Ama classes are so much higher. For a horse aged 7-9 already competing this level, I would expect to pay upto about 10k with partial papers (OC), and upto 15k with full papers. If the horse has potential to go higher or is competing Ama already then upwards of 20-25k.

For ponies at the top of their height (so 148, 140, 132cm), obviously the bigger the pony, the bigger the they can compete in and the higher the price. For something with full papers, that is competing and has a good record again aged 7-9, 10k easily, but upwards of 50k-100k isn't unheard of for something which is out doing well at AS1 (110-115cm) and is in the running to win at the national finals. As I said, 4yos with hardly any experience at all 15k isn't (considered) unreasonable.
 
Casey she is jumping Cycle Libre, never jumped Club. She has a sire and dam sire well known to people who know the Shagya Stud Book.
 
I find it interesting that they have to be registered to compete at above club level, imagine if they tried that over here!! what I do find odd though is that they recognise warmbloods, which are a type rather than a breed, yet you say they don't recognise the ISH, also a type with long pedigrees and dna testing, my own ISH is by a well known and successful SF stallion yet by definition would not be allowed to compete if I should move or sell him to France, not that he is going anywhere but I do find it bizarre.

Prices do seem similar although it seems that breeding is a higher priority due to the restrictions, if BE were restricted to only fully registered breeds the membership would probably drop by 50% possibly more.
 
be positive, it is one of the things that amazed me. We went through 3 years of battling with the French National Stud because the Cleveland Bay was not recognised as a pedigree horse. The same was true of Dales Ponies, one breeder in France gave up breeding Dales. We have new English neighbours who organised team chasing in the UK and have one super talented mare. She can only compete 'club' because her breeding is unknown. Just think how many Olympic horse over the years would never have made it in the UK, because at least half the pedigree was unknown. Two part bred Cleveland Bays come to mind.
 
Thanks Casey. That is very similar to the UK alright. I've heard there's desperate red tape involved in competing in France, it does sound a little complicated with all their breed criteria.

That's odd about the ISH not being recognised. They feature massively in eventing and at a high level so I wonder how it works. They certainly compete at international level in France as we send teams over, not to mention all the other teams with ISHs on them.

Rollin it's hard to say what your mare might be worth as there is no way to assess her level of ability if it hasn't been tried higher than 1.05m. Perhaps her level is about that, or perhaps she could be a 1.50m horse in time.

Here the professional producers take their three year-olds and give them a little training in loose jumping. Then they are asked to do a bigger jump, like 1.30m. If the horse can do so with ease it is earmarked for a higher level career. If it shows any difficulty at all is ear marked as an amateur horse, so could be expected to go up to 1* max or jump up to 1.20m.

The horse's training is then planned with that in mind and already the producer knows what he's likely to be worth once produced. Obviously their training doesn't start then but at least the trainer knows what level of horse they have and can map out a plan for that.
 
Irish Gal, I know what lots of people do in terms of training. I watched the SF Championships in France, for 3 years olds. Loose jumping over big fences then under saddle presentation with a couple of small jumps.

However, I like my youngsters produced slowly and Sebastien Poirier who started our Shagya stallion jumping novice in the UK, cautioned me against taking him up through the heights too quickly. He is competing at 1.15 Grand prix and I know he can jump 1.30 but he competed as an endurance horse before entering SJ competition in France and we don't want to push him. Currently he loves jumping and we want him to continue to enjoy his work.

I have also watched a lot of 'train crashes' in the arena this season with youngsters.
 
I completely 100% agree with you Rollin. Some of the three yr-old loose jumping competitions put too much pressure on horses and we've all seen the train wrecks of those pushed to hard.

Successful trainers don't do that though, or they wouldn't be successful for long. And there's a world of a difference between being out competing and trying the horse over a loose jump at home to assess its capabilities. That's what I'm referring to, getting a handle on the horse's talent in a no stress environment.
 
Irish gal said:
I completely 100% agree with you Rollin. Some of the three yr-old loose jumping competitions put too much pressure on horses and we've all seen the train wrecks of those pushed to hard.

Successful trainers don't do that though, or they wouldn't be successful for long. And there's a world of a difference between being out competing and trying the horse over a loose jump at home to assess its capabilities. That's what I'm referring to, getting a handle on the horse's talent in a no stress environment.
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Yeah she is 6 now and been brought on correctly so will already be strong. Loose jumping her for one session at home isn't going to ruin her at all. I mean you are already jumping her with a rider at courses over a metre which isn't easy on her. Without the rider will make it easy for her.

Do agree about the 3 year olds though not sure I would buy a horse if I knew it had been through that at that age. Bit too much for them when still growing.
 
Thought I'd come back to answer my own question.. No they're not selling at the inflated prices advertised!
I have kept an eye on the adverts for horses I'd earmarked as 'possibles' and they have returned to the top of list over and over again, sometimes with a reduction in price. Of all the horses I have enquired about none have been sold and of the horses I've viewed I've often been the only person so far.
I think this suggests that some prices are unrealistic as they are simply not being achieved.
It's hard to pitch your pricing perfectly to the market but having a horse advertised for weeks/months on different sites then potentially gives out a message that there is a reason why it's not selling..
 
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