Cushings / Laminitis Advice for old pony ???

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treacle86

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my old 12.2hh, 18yo , I bought him back last xmas .
the previous owner had him on pergolide but my vet said to take him off this jan 2009 as he didnt seem to be cushinoid .

however this summer he had a couple of bouts of lami and then has got very hairy quickly and has really deteriorated in the last month or 2 , vet has said he really does seem to have cushings now , and he is back on pergolide.

But he is not happy and has no life , he hates to be stabled , so is just in a small bare grass paddock , but it seems that the lami is not really connected to grass intake for him, he has been having lami episodes when he has been off the grass .

Thinking to try founder guard for him , and circulation products that may help .
As the ground gets frosty he is not very keen to move around at all , due to feet / circulation / general depression ???
He just doesnt seem like the same pony most days and only seems to have a bit of spark every so oftern .

his feet have been quite bad and despite vet and farrier he is always seeming to be down on his heels / soles .

Not sure what to do with him, have discussed with vet possibe sand / rubber chip paddock maybe for the winter hard ground

as other option would be stabled 24/7 when it ground is too hard for him . Also discussed this may be his last few months with us , as he has had a pretty poor summer and few months and doesnt seem to be improving .

We just dont know what else to do as he doesnt seem to be improving with the pergolide .any advice guys ????

poor old boy . xxxxx
 
Is the pony shod? If not, worth trying putting on some front shoes at least, as this may make it more comfortable for him to get around, especially on the hard ground. Some laminitics are better with shoes on, some are not - so you really have to suck it and see. Our old laminitic pony was definitely much better and happier with front shoes. (*ducks and hides and await backlash from the barefoot brigade*
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) Have the pony's feet been x-rayed to find out how much damage there is in the foot?

What are you feeding and have you had your hay analysed to ensure it is low enough in sugar for a laminitic? I would definite investigate some sort of grass-free paddock, firstly from the point of view of diet and secondly for providing a softer surface. Does he have company either in his paddock, or have horses next door he can talk to?

Obviously, there are various avenue to explore to try and make life happier for this pony, but if in the end you find you can't enhance his quality of life, you may have a hard decision to make.
 
I have made a small paddock that my pony can access his stable from, if i shut him in for any longer than 24 hrs he gets depressed think it,s more boredom than stress. He has the choice then to go in or stay out i know he goes in quite alot as it looks like he as a party in the shavings. He is also being tested for cushings as he had his first bout of luckily for him mild lami and was sound after 3 days. Mine is only 13 so really hope he as not got cushings, other wise we have a long road ahead on treatment. Really hope you find a solution for yours.
 
Thanks guys , Yes that is like him , he gets very dismal and down if locked up for any length of time , poor man !

He did have shoes on , he seems better without shoes on .


he is given last years hay , soaked ,which is of nice enough quality that he likes it and eats it happily , but not so great that he puts weight on etc , i tend to keep him like some other people a little lean , where you can easily see / feel a rib .
he has happy hoof chaff etc .

Yes I am def looking into a soft surface for his paddock to try and give him some happiness .
 
Hi,

I agree with TGM, it maight well be worthwhile to try some form of corrective shoeing if you haven't already done so. My 30 yo cushinoid pony has natural balance shoes now which are fitted according to his radiographs and it really has improved him.

Also what dose of pergolide is he on? Discuss with your vet if upping the dose is an option.

Most cushings horses don't have a true pituitary tumour but pituitary dysfunction and the condition is often worse when the days are shortening. When mine got very listness and lethargic in autumn a few years back I added Vitex to his pergolide and his demanour improved definitively as did for a while his coat. So this might be another option.

However, at the end of the day it's a chronic condition for which there is no cure and all you can do is manage it as best as you can, but unfortunately there will be a time when the horses quality of life is so poor that there will be no choice.
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Hi, I have been going through this with my mare all year and she is only just starting to get better. These are the things that helped:
1)when she first got the lami, I didn't box rest her properly, this made it worst, I gritted my teeth, and with the help of her shetland companion I box rested her properly and this really helped.
2) once she was getting better she had imprint shoes on the front which really helped her.
3) unfortunately she has had a couple of abscesses which have brought her back to a standstill but these are a side effect of lami I'm told.
4) I used MSM sulphur which has been key in helping her to get better IMO.
5) she has hardly any grazing, hay and happy hoof.
She has had the imprint shoes taken off now, she is getting there, she had her first canter around the field at the weekend was amazing to see her happy again as she has spent most of the year sad. She has front shoes on now, she has gone on Metformin for diabetes and I'm going to see how this goes, the vet gave me Pergolise but said to see how she goes on the Metformin first. I hope it all works, I can't wait to hack my girl out again.
Hang in there, try all different things, they don't all work, I didn't find lami-guard any help at all for example but MSM had an amazing effect on helping her. Good luck, feel free to PM x
 
corrective shoing may help, or even just bar shoes for bit of extra support etc.

Is the pergolide dose he is on now, the same dose as he was on from the other owner? If it is less I would up it.
Pergolide can be increased to reach a happy point for the horse, and then decrease the dose till you are the minimum dose for a happy healthier horse.
Depression/lethargy are clinical signs of cushings so just be aware that if you find the correct dose of pergolide for him his personality should perk up!
smile.gif

Also, in terms of feeding, if he is given any sort of beet fodder beet is better than sugar beet as it has much less sugar etc.
Cushingoid horses should be treated as chronic OAP laminitics (often as they are!) so its a low sugar diet, senior style diet etc.....

Does he have a companion he could be turned out with? Often the grass intake will not have an effect as the laminitis is due to the high cortisol levels in his blood, not gut related.
If you have any other questions please feel free to PM me

also the yahoo group is very helpful!
 
Nothing to add to what has been said except regarding the Founderguard.

This has acually only been tested with horses having laminitis from excess grain, it appears to be helpful to some who get grass laminitis, but was a complete waste of money with my 6 y/o Cushings pony.
 
It sounds as if the Pergolide is not having the desired effect. If it is working fully your pony should not be showing signs of laminitis so I do not understand why your vet told you to take the pony off the pergolide. Perhaps you should be looking at a higher dose?

My pony was diagnosed with Cushings 7 years ago, he has been on Pergolide ever since but I have had to increase the dose over the years for it to be effective. His laminitis is never caused by grass, it is always related to the Cushings only. I don't let him get overweight as I don't want to risk grass induced laminitis but that really has never been the cause.

Please check with your vet ubout your dosage of pergolide as it sounds as if your pony is very depressed and in pain.

As I have been living with the effects of Cushings please feel free to pm me if you want any more information.
 
Thanks everyone , all suggestions noted and will look into all .
He is on 1/2 1mg pergolide tablet and we think we will upp him to 1mg .

He has a joyful companion who trys to perk him up , but most days he doesnt perk up apart from the odd day when he will tear around cantering and bucking .

then dismal again .

theres hopefully ways and means to sort him out . xxxxx
 
I was advised that, for my 14.1hh pony I could go up to 5mg per day. He hasn't suffered any side effects so the vet has actually slowly put it up to 6mg per day as it works so well for him.

There is no way you can really tell he has Cushings while the pergolide is working. He is still in light work and is not in any pain.

Good luck with your pony.
xx

ETS I don't mean to say that you should put the dose up this much but that you should be fine with 1mg as you suggested!
 
Have you had any blood work done? Pergolide only works if the dopamine levels are low. With some cases the dopamine is fine but the receptors on the piutuitary are knackered so ACTH isn't regulated = Cushing's. If it's not an issue with the dopamine then the pergolide will do nothing but increase it which can induce laminitis.
I'd ask your vet if you can have some bloods done. It's worth a go it might help to find a better medication for him.
What dose of pergolide is he on?
xxx
 
There are a number of different triggers to Laminitis.

One of them is emerging encysted small red worms which can be detected by a blood test.

My horses both have Cushings and are each on one tablet Pergolide 250mg.

Take a look at the Laminitis Trust website as Robert Eustace specialises in Laminitis.
 
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