Cushings - please cheer me up :-(

[VictoriaEDT]

Well, after 6 weeks of really bad laminitis Charlie (my coloured)had his ATCH test and it came back positive for Cushings.

So naturally I go to the laminitis trust website and do more reading to see that if laminitis is the first clinical sign you notice then "the outlook can be grave"........

Charlie was perfectly well 6 weeks ago, good weight, shiny coat then all of a sudden bam he has a horrendous laminitis attack over night despite never having it in his life (he is 20 but looks 12, the pic below was taken last Sept and he does not look 20!)

I would like to hear your experiences if poss, esp where laminitis had been the first clinical sign........

 

[ester]

sorry no help, I think there have been some great old cushings posts in vet which would be worth looking at. Poor charlie cob, though it does at least explain the lami. Does treating the cushings then help with the lami potential in the future?

 

[Lucy_Nottingham]

quite often laminitis is the first clinical sign as the others can be quite mild......

Have you got him on pergolide? (this will help reduce the risk of subsequent cases of laminitis and hopefully reduce the current case)

You have to manage him like a normal laminitic right now (along with the pergolide) and he should, in time, recover, but it can be a pain in the bum but hopefully he will get better with the regular laminitis treatment and tlc!!!

But I cant recommend using pergolide more highly!

 

[welshstar]

Don't get too dis-heartened. It's not all bad and there are plenty of ways to try and deal with the symptoms.

My horse was diagnosed aged 17 (also by the lami) He was just carefully managed for a few years in regards to grazing, feed and times of the year. (The autumn is regarded as the worst time for lami attack for cushing horses). His coat was a bit longer and it took him a bit longer to loose his winter coat. However, when he was 20- nearly 21- he got even worse. He seemed to suddenly go downhill and become miserable. Our vet had the farrier to radically cut his feet right back. They had to be polticed and he couldn't have shoes for a while. This was done because his feet had gone more 'scoopy' due to the lami. At the same time, we decided to put him on pergolide.

He is now 22. Last year he was reguarly out showing and went to the xc's (and even winning every class he entered at one!) His coat was long ish but he was clipped just before the summer and the pergolide kept the growth at bay. He *touch wood* hasn't had lami since been on the pergolide despite no special measures grazing wise.

Since having cushings, he has been out showing, sj, xc, and some 3ft ode's. Its only the past year or two that he has slowed down more due to age. I honestly don't know how much longer he has as we've just had a huge sarcoid surgically removed. But I think he's worth it and if cushings means he can't be ridden and has to be retired, then so be it but I think I owe it to him to give him a happy last few years

Sorry for the essay!

 

[charlie13]

bf first pony 11hh welsh a went down with lami 2 years ago at the age of 28 but acts 3 and was then later diagnosed with cussins he was really ad down to the point wher they where thinking it wuld be kinder to pts but vet put him on perigold has been on that for the ladt year and what a diffrent pony got through this summer great controled turnout ect back to his normal naughty self also uses aloe vera in feed seams to do the job

 

[MrsMozart]

Little Lad doesn't have Cushings, but is highly suseptable to sugar induced lami attacks.

We tried putting a muzzle on, but he just can't get the hang of them and drops an alarming amount of weight in two days, so now he's in for a day and a night and out for a day and a night without a muzzle.

He was exercised just about daily, but that was causing him stress and we were wary that it would bring on stress induced lami (which we think he's had once before), so now he is a field ornament, but we have to watch his weight: he is out without a rug, and stabled at night (only because it's the yard rule to be in).

Have a hug and a hot choccy hun.

 

[VictoriaEDT]

Thanks everyone, I just read a site that said Pergolide can increase vasoconstriction to the feet and make current laminitis worse?! hope not as it is already quite bad

 

[LadyRascasse]

that lamintus trust website is scary, i think my lad has cushings and read it the other day and it is very frightening. good luck with you lad i hope he will be alright

 

[Eaglestone]

Sorry to hear that your horse has gone down with Cushings Induced Laminitis

As so many people on this forum by now know, Motor went down with Cushings Induced Lamintis in October 2005, at the age of 24.

I thought the end had come and that my beloved 1st horse would turn, overnight, into this old curly coated skinny horse and I was distraught

He did in fact have other clinical signs, which I am embarrassed now to admit that I did not act on

. His orbital dips above the eyes had disappeared and his coat had got a curly patch on one side of his withers.

He was on box rest for 5 months and suffered 10 degrees of rotation. However with a lot of tears, time, hard work, determination and the help of a fantastic Vet and Farrier, he came through it.

The only down side is that he has to have limited grass intake as this could trigger the Laminitis off again, if I am not careful.

However the drug Pergolide at LN says, is what has saved his life.

Here I am over 4 years later with that happy, fizzy horse back, who I ride out 2 to 3 times a week.

Is your horse now on box rest with a very thick bed of shavings (about 9 inches in fact!)?

Please keep us updated, as this helps people with this condition so much.

I hope this cheers you up

PS .... if you want me to post some pictures of how he was and how he is now, or any other information, please let me know.

ETS .... I have just read your reply worrying about Pergolide ..... this saved Motor's life, so I would highly recommend that you consider it at least and talk to your Vet about it.

 

[whizzica]

My 23yo Pony has cushings and the only clinical sign was the lami - he too was in a really bad way and had major drop of the pedal bone so the prognosis was very poor - but with drastic remedial footwork , putting him on pergolide and careful management, 3 months later he is back to his usual bouncy self and living like a 'proper horse' In fact the vet came out last week to do his teeth and jabs and was amazed by him - he said that he really hadn't expected him to still be here!!! let alone see him so well and sound. I know that it all sounds very grave but it can go the other way so don't give up yet. Pm me if you want any more indepth details of what we did with him as have photos and xrays of his feet - just to prove how bad he was!!! x good luck with your boy

 

[Lucy_Nottingham]

pergolide is a dopaminergic antagonist and so effects the pituitary gland at the base of the brain.
It therefore prevents the release of excess hormones from the pitutiary gland which is what leads to the problems associated with cushings (such as excessive hair growth, and the muscle wastage etc)
It is not a vasoconstrictive drug.........
It decreases the release of cortisol from the adrenal gland (one of the reasons why you get vasoconstriction in the feet which effects the laminitic state) and so by administering pergolide it decreases cortisol and so in "theory" it should cause vasodilation and help!!!

However, this would be a conversation to have with your vet!!!

Also check the yahoo equine metabolic disease and cushings page its really good... and prob less depressin!

 

[VictoriaEDT]

thanks eaglestone

He started Pergolide today, he is 15.3 and weighs 640kgs so he is on 1.5mg to start with with a view to increase. I also read that ACP may may interfer with the pergolide so i wont give him the ACP tonight and speak to my vet tomorr about the ACP etc

He has deep bed about 8" where he can dig his feet into it and is on deep litter (lovely and white on top still but hate to think whats going on underneath as he has been in it for 6 weeks!) and he is a wet bugger!

When did motor have his feet done? Farrier removed shoes (just about managed before charlie fell on him!) and managed to trim hinds but not the fronts.

 

[Tankey]

I have a cushingoid laminitic and she lives very happily on Agnus cactus (chaste berry)...in fact, in the 3 years she has been on it, she has not suffered one bout of laminitis at all whereas before, she had lami nore often than she didnt (with the previous owners).

PM me if you want more info

 

[emalou2]

My only experience of this is a guy on our yard who had a mare aged about 20, She kept getting laminitis and then eventually vet diagnosed cushings, we all had an idea due to her coat. She was quite overweight and her owner fed her at least 25lb of hay every day including two bucket fulls of hard feed.
I moved off the yard for other easons but went back to visit, she looked thin and the worst ive ever seen her.

A couple of weeks later she was PTS.

Her owner decided enough was enough and called it a day for her.

Your horse looks very well and i hear of others who monitor the disease well and the horses live for a long time after diagnosis. Fingers crossed yours is with you for many years to come xx

 

[Eaglestone]

Sorry I cannot comment on ACP etc ....

Motor went on Pergolide within 10 days of going down with Laminitis and is only 14.3. So your horse, being a big chap with more pressure on his feet, will have a harder hill for him to climb.

Motor is now on 1.5mg of Pergolide, however this was increased about 18 months ago from 1mg, as in the Vets eyes, he was looking more like a "Cushings Pony". Since this increase and my decision to not kill the little bit of hay he eats, with too much soaking, he as improved leaps and bounds and looks wonderful. Vet has said that a horse of his size could have as much as 4mg .....

Initially the farrier decided that Motor should have special shoes which raised the heels and supported the frogs. However, 2 months in, after Mots doing a hooley in the stable, when his mate was trotted up in the yard next door, he went down hill. After consultation with the Vet and Farrier, the shoes were removed and this was the start of him improving. Obviously this is what worked for Mots, however each and every horse is different, as you know.

I, in fact, would not allow Motor to have shoes nailed on until I felt he could cope (and me!). So we experimented with stick on ones, when he was allowed a little bit a walk after 5 months. He had his feet trimmed every 2 weeks, if I recall rightly, and the Farrier ensured that his heels did not grow too much, as Laminitic's heels grow quicker. I have it all logged somewhere, but would have to refer to my notes, as my memory is bad nowadays!

If you want me to expand me then I am only too happy to, as I know what a worry this condition is

 

[soloequestrian]

I was speaking to someone the other day who's pony was diagnosed with Cushings at about the age of 20 and lived very happily, working, on pergolide until he was 35!

 

[Eaglestone]

[ QUOTE ]
I was speaking to someone the other day who's pony was diagnosed with Cushings at about the age of 20 and lived very happily, working, on pergolide until he was 35!

[/ QUOTE ]

That is just what I wanted to hear, as I have always wondered how long a horse could live being on Pergolide

 

[sueeltringham]

Pergolide has recently saved my pony's life. My little mini-Shetland had lots of signs of Cushings, but then in November started to colic really badly and stopped eating. She also had laminitis. Which came first, we don't know, but after struggling to keep her alive for the next month, we put her on Pergolide and she showed improvement after about 10 days of treatment. I have to be really strict with her diet. She gets hay (soaked if necessary) and Formula 4 Feet plus her pergolide. Nothing else and no grazing. She's out at night on a mud paddock with her hay. She's now a totally different pony with her personality, cheekiness and liveliness back. Hope that helps you to keep positive.

Sue

 

[PeterNatt]

I have two 25 and 29 both still regularly ridden and each on 250 microgram of pergolide per day. Their hay is soaked for at least one hour and they both get a measure of Formula 4 Feet per day.

 

[ruth83]

I have had quite a few experiences with cushings, it can be manged to allow the horse and owner to have as normal a time as possible, it is certainly not a death sentence.

If your lad is suffereing with cushings induced laminitis there are a number of things you can consider to help him. As well as following the latest advice for general (sugar induced) laminitis you should also consider the potential for shock induced laminitis - the pony I have dealt with most recently has suffered bouts of laminitis brought on by the shock on her feet of going out in the snow and the shock of having a slightly more than usual trim from the farrier (this pony has had cushings for some time, it was not managed well in the early stages and unfortunately the pony is not coping well but this is not the norm). Speak with your farrier about how confident/up to date he is about laminitis/cushings feet and consider asking your vet for a supply of bute in case of an attack.

There are many avenues to explore with cushings, don't allow the horror stories to put you off.

 

[treacle86]

sorry to hear you boy has cushings and lami .
pergolide is def a lifesaver !!! i bought back my 18 yo , 12.2hh pony club pony xmas 2008 , and he seemed to have cushings or start developing it a little after i got him back and he had lami attacks over the summer he was on pergolide 1mg a day and before xmas 2009 , it looked bleak , we spoke with vet about having him put to sleep , but we upped his pergolide to 2mg a day , making sure he got it into him completely as he was getting to the point where he wouldnt take his medicine in feed / apple / mints etc , so he started getting it through a little blow pipe thing straight into his open mouth !!

and since being on 2mg a day he is absolutely back to life , different pony !! back to his cheeky , happy self , bucking and squealing and full of life !!!
we were soooo relieved as we really thought he was to be pts before xmas .

I really hope ur boy picks up and responds well to treatment.
I found that the changed method of how i give my pony his pergolide to him has helped too, because I think he may have coughed / spat out his previous medicine .

good luck and i think they can go on for many many years when they are stabilised .

xxx

 

[brighteyes]

You are going to have to address his weight due to his size and breed as a matter of great importance (as if you didn't know already) as it has a huge bearing on if he'll beat the laminitis or not.

Redouble your efforts with his dietary needs and I'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

[VictoriaEDT]

Thank you all,

His weight im not too worried about, nor is the vet, in fact you can see his ribs all the time which is a possitive thing in his condition! I know he is 640KG but he is an extremely big 15.3 boned HW cob (without the belly!) with shoulders like a bulldozer

I will have to deprive him of his spring grass though :-(

At the mo he is on healthy hooves, superflex (for his ringbone), 17kg hay a day soaked for an hour min and thats it.

 

[HollyWoozle]

The vets think that Cosmo has Cushings. He has been prone to lami for years but we restrict his grazing when the grass is rich. It is this past year or two that his coat has become really thick and he has struggled to lose it... might have to clip him this summer which, after 17 years of never having been clipped, could be interesting! He is also a bit stiff from arthritis but has Cortaflex with some Happy Hoof and seems to be fine at the moment.

I am sorry to hear about your horse, Victoria, and I hope that you can find a good way to manage the problems he's having.

 

[The_snoopster]

My shettie was also diagnosed with cushings last year at the age of 13 I am told this is quite a young age to develope the condition. He is on pergolide and the change in him is unreal, he was never a lively pony even as a 2 year old, but the treatment as given him a new lease on life.

 

[Shazzababs]

We had a cushings pony for many years, before there were any actual treatments for it. Several years in we found out that it had caused her to be very anemic.

We fed her some green gloop called 'blood tonic' which was basically an iron suppliment, and it really helped to perk her up a lot. Seamed to keep the laminitus at bay a little too, but that could have been a coincidence.

The thing which helped her the most was keeping her fully clipped all year around, she always seamed to be hot, and really apprecieated having her coat removed, especially in summer.

 

[Azabache]

First of all, big hugs. I remember how distraught I was when the 'C' word was diagnosed, like you from Laminitis. He was diagnosed at 21 and was sadly pts at 25 due to ulceration of the eye. From what I remember from all my research at the time, something like 60% of older horses will have cushings to some extent or other, often completely unnoticed. Something to consider is that it affects their immune system, so wounds take longer to heal. Good wound management is essential. They are also more prone to foot abscesses, so be really careful that you pick their feet out regularly and no tiny stone is left to travel up the hoof.
Get familiar with your horses feet, by that I mean get into the habit of feeling them every night to check for any heat or changes in the foot, puffy coronet band etc. Also check his pulse regularly, so that you can detect when it is raised.
The quicker you pick up on the warning signs, the better chance you have of nipping an attack of Lami in the bud. Grass was not usually the cause my pony's lami, so if there were any warning signs, then often upping his pergolide for a while would be enough to prevent an attack. I also learnt that if he got a bit colicy, then lami often followed the next day. For my boy, it affected his eyes and he got regularly infections, so keeping his eyes clean was important.
Treat him like a laminitic, ie be careful in Spring but moreover Autumn. Frost too can instigate an attack, as can a change in diet, hard groud, trauma to the foot, or because it's a Sunday - I was at a loss one day why he got it, so figured it was because it was a Sunday. That 's the unfortunate thing with Cushings laminitis, it can sometimes happen for no obvious reason, hence why you need to be aware of what the early warning signs are.
Over time and with a little trial and error, you will learn what the signs are and how best to manage him. For all the hard work, I still was able to take my boy for a good blast across the fields and have fun with him. It really is not a death sentence as I first thought and actually strengthened my bond even further with my little boy. Finally, don't look too much at the laminitis books and websites, they can be a bit horriffic and aren't most peopeles experience of laminitis. They do have some very good advice, but don't let them scare you. Big hugs x

 

[MagicMelon]

One of mine was diagnosed with cushings a few months ago. He'd been "footy" on and off (literally changed daily) so our barefoot trimmer recommended he be tested. He has been on pergolide since but TBH its made no visible difference. I think he's footy not because of the cushings but due to his thin soles (he's always had hoof probems since serious laminitis many years ago). He hasn't had laminitis since though and shows no other signs of cushings. He is 21yrs old. TBH, he is still well within himself and is only really "footy" on hard ground. So far he seems to be doing fine. I think it depends on the horse though as to how much cushings affects them.

 

[EstherYoung]

My cushingoid old bat is still going. She's had it for at least 15 years and is now well over 30. I think her melanoma will get her before the cushings does. She still has all her marbles, although she does have a coat like a yak and is a bit slower than she used to be. I really didn't know if I was doing the right thing letting her go through this winter but she's come out better than she went in. She quite enjoyed the snow.

She's the little grey in the rug - photo taken last week:

I've never had her on pergolide as hers has been managed with Hormonise. She hasn't had a laminitis attack since we put her on it.

 

[Crazy Friesian]

EquineCushings@yahoogroups.com
TheMetabolicHorse@yahoogroups.com

These 2 sites should be able to give you lots of info and support from people that live with Cushings horses everyday. Dr Elenor Kellon (Equine Cushings) is world renowned in her field. This is a US site, though they do have lots of UK people on there.

Jackie (Metabolic Horse) is great too. Uk site.

Good luck, Do not dispair. Cushings is not a death sentance, but will need patience and time from both of you. *hugs*