Cycling "Sportives"

[Kentphil]

The single track roads near my part of Kent were recently taken over by a "Sportive" which involved some 1,000 cyclists. I am aware that these events have been a problem for other riders across the country and even resulted in the cancellation of the New Forest Pony Drift in October.

Given that they are cycling "against the clock" rather than racing, there is no requirement for them to gain council approval or to notify any other road users in advance of descending on (usually) peaceful roads which are shared with horses. The dangers are obvious and I would be surprised if no-one has been thrown or injured as a result.

I have no wish to spoil the fun of people on bicyles, they are vulnerable road users like us, but do think that there should be compulsory regulation which includes consultation with the "locals", marshalling, limits to speed etc. I would be grateful if anyone else who feels strongly about this gets in touch, either here or through twitter (#horseriders, @phil_woods); if there are enough of us, perhaps we can get the politicians to amend the rules and make the roads safer for everyone.

 

[claracanter]

I totally agree with you. I have read some horror stories about sportives and horses. ( I think one of them may have been on here.) There are so many of these events on nowadays and they are not cheap to enter and a great money spinner for the charities. However many of them are badly organised and I feel they are a series of serious accidents waiting to happen. My husband is a keen cyclist and I have even taken part in a sportive with him, but the organisers do seem to have found a loophole with regard to regulations. We were only talking about it this weekend and saying something should be done about it.

 

[Tiddlypom]

We had a sportif which ran right past our house in the summer. We had no advance knowledge of it all. I have posted on another thread that horse riders should cope with what comes on the roads but there are exceptions!

For two or three hours, hundreds of cyclists were streaming past, some individually and some in groups, and they all had an eye on the clock. I wasn't out with the horse, but I had to drive to the nearby town and found all the cyclists were going the same route as me! Other car drivers were getting so annoyed by being held up by bikes that I only just missed two head on smashes on the way back, as cars overtook bikes on blind bends coming towards me!

I've no problem with the sportifs happening, but the routes should be posted up and locals notified so we can amend our plans if necessary.

Btw, I met my OH on a cycle club run, and have cycled Lands End to John o Groats in aid of the RDA, so I am not anti cyclist per se.

 

[Suby2]

The New Forest has had a number of these Sportives which has caused a lot of ill feeling on both sides. The sheer number of cyclists on narrow roads with free roaming livestock and tourist and local traffic plus walkers, leisure cyclists and horse riders is not a good mix. The National Park is there for everyone to enjoy and normal leisure cyclists are not a problem. These large organised events however, are.

 

[pennyturner]

Generally I'm of the view that all road users should be tolerant of each other. Horse riders should expect their mounts to behave, and cyclists be considerate.

I suspect if I met a 'sportive' on a single track road, particularly driving the carriage, they would have little choice but to stop / get to one side, and the danger is mostly for them, rather than me. For this reason groups of cyclists are usually quite considerate.

If a group of cyclists see that they are frightening a horse, they should stop immediately. This applies to a single rider, a 'sportive' or the Tour de France, but I don't think we riders have the right to ask them to stop enjoying 'our' roads, any more than car drivers are right to ask us not to ride groups of horses out on the road.

My are is particularly popular with cycle clubs, so I know very well that we can co-exist on the roads. We also regularly meet vintage car rallies, pheasant shoots and steam traction engines. It's great to see everyone out enjoying their hobbies.

 

[cobgoblin]

The problem is that many of them are not considerate, nor do they seem to have much road awareness even if a car is behind them. They rarely look behind, often ride two or more abreast on narrow winding lanes and seem to spend their time trying to make pelatons! I would like to point out that I'm not referring to ordinary cyclists wearing jeans or whatever, just the ' Lycra lovelies' . I also wonder how many carry third party insurance. I too, live in Kent and ever since the Tour de France passed this way we have been plagued with groups of Lycra lovelies.Normal cyclists are usually very considerate.

 

[Kentphil]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to add something. Just to avoid any misconceptions, I have no objection to sharing the road with bicycle per se. It is the large organised events and those that encourage riders to race against the clock that seem to be the problem. These seem to attract the kind of cyclist that has no consideration for others and will do things like hurtling downhill around blind bends on single track roads. "Lycra lovies", "lycra and pointy head brigade", call the what you will, we have all met them!

To see the kind of event that I am referring to, I would recommend a glance at the website of something called ukcyclingevents. It was one of their "Wiggle" Sportives that spurred me to start the discussion. Over the next day or two, I will put up an e-petition on the government website asking that these sorts of events are regulated for the safety of all concerned. Will post the link on Twitter @phil_woods if you want to sign and / or re-tweet.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Generally I'm of the view that all road users should be tolerant of each other. Horse riders should expect their mounts to behave, and cyclists be considerate.

I suspect if I met a 'sportive' on a single track road, particularly driving the carriage, they would have little choice but to stop / get to one side, and the danger is mostly for them, rather than me. For this reason groups of cyclists are usually quite considerate.

If a group of cyclists see that they are frightening a horse, they should stop immediately. This applies to a single rider, a 'sportive' or the Tour de France, but I don't think we riders have the right to ask them to stop enjoying 'our' roads, any more than car drivers are right to ask us not to ride groups of horses out on the road.

My are is particularly popular with cycle clubs, so I know very well that we can co-exist on the roads. We also regularly meet vintage car rallies, pheasant shoots and steam traction engines. It's great to see everyone out enjoying their hobbies.

I'm the last person to try to stop others enjoying the countryside. It's a question of how to inform the public in advance that a sportive is happening, and on what route. The most cycle proof horse will find a never ending stream of hundreds of cyclists interspersed with impatient car drivers a trial, and the rider may well decide to stay off the roads for that one day, or choose a different route, if they only knew that the event was to take place.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Over the next day or two, I will put up an e-petition on the government website asking that these sorts of events are regulated for the safety of all concerned. Will post the link on Twitter @phil_woods if you want to sign and / or re-tweet.

Thanks for your efforts, please can you let us know on here when the e petition is up, I don't really 'do' twitter!

 

[BHS_official]

If anyone has experienced a safety issue with a sportive - or for that matter, any other safety issue while out and about with their horses! - please take the time to send a brief report to our Safety team using the dedicated form at www.horseaccidents.org.uk. All data is crucial in helping the BHS campaign and lobby for safer conditions for all equestrians and horses.

 

[Goldenstar]

I got caught up I one of these these in a car it would not have been good on a horse.
They cycled recklessly IMO and no other type of road user is allowed to put their speed over others safety and inconvenience.
Cyclists vary a lot from people using bikes to get from A to B ( usually considerate )
To at the other extreme young men in packs dripping in Lyra cycling like lunatics with no care or concern for other.

 

[scrat]

Update on New Forest Wiggle http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10840841.Banned__Major_blow_to_mass_cycle_events_in_Hampshire/

 

[Kentphil]

Will do. I don't really "get" Twitter either, but I gather that a lot of younger people do and we will need 100,000 people to force a Parliamentary debate, so it seemed like a good idea to take things wider. We shall see...............

 

[Kentphil]

Good news and not so good. E-petition drafted and submitted, may take up to 7 days for the civil servants to process it. Will put the link up when it is approved; meanwhile if those in the Twittersphere could encourage their friends, relatives, horses, dogs, hamsters etc. to follow @phil_woods #horseriders, I will be putting it there as well.
Only about 99,988 more to recruit...........................

 

[tankgirl1]

I find cyclists more annoying as a driver tbh, I drive a lot for my job, and am often held up by them. The worst yet was a lycra clad numbered person, so I assume he was in a race of some sort, causing a 1.5mile tailback as he slogged up a windy hill, yet didn't at any point pull over to let traffic pass! Whilst I would never risk overtaking when unsafe, it is incredibly annoying, especially when they don't even acknowledge you as you pass them safely, so I can kinda understand why people get frustrated and overtake when they perhaps shouldn't! They drive me nuts, and I am a rider with a higher tolerance level than Joe Public for the vulnerable road users out there!!

 

[Kentphil]

If anyone has experienced a safety issue with a sportive - or for that matter, any other safety issue while out and about with their horses! - please take the time to send a brief report to our Safety team using the dedicated form at www.horseaccidents.org.uk. All data is crucial in helping the BHS campaign and lobby for safer conditions for all equestrians and horses.

I did contact the BHS to see whether you are doing anything about the problem, but have yet to receive a reply. I have seen several quotes about the NHS working with British Cycling, but I do not think that this will change the attitude of some of the companies out there who very deliberately push the existing regulations to the limit.

 

[BHS_official]

I did contact the BHS to see whether you are doing anything about the problem, but have yet to receive a reply. I have seen several quotes about the NHS working with British Cycling, but I do not think that this will change the attitude of some of the companies out there who very deliberately push the existing regulations to the limit.

Sorry to hear you haven't heard back from us yet. Please do resend your message by PM on here or to communications@bhs.org.uk and we'll check it was received successfully by the Safety team.

Unfortunately, you're right when you say it's impossible to change absolutely everybody's behaviour (regardless of their motivation), but we feel there's certainly a positive impact we can make on the majority, including working together with British Cycling and other bodies. We've posted the below information previously but it bears repeating.

We have a leaflet on the subject of sharing the roads with cyclists available for download at http://www.horseaccidents.org.uk/Adv...on/Cycles.aspx (email safety@bhs.org.uk or call 02476 840516 for hard copies). This leaflet was approved by British Cycling, Cycling Time Trials and the CTC.

The programme for road races which are run on the highway has to be agreed months in advance and the organisers have to get police permission at least eight weeks prior to the event in order to run it. Therefore, there is no reason why an event can’t be advertised widely so that horse riders are aware. One of the rules of British Cycling for organisers is that they notify all local riding establishments to make them aware of the event taking place.

The time trialling programme for open events on the public highway has to be agreed at least 12 months in advance; for club events (which usually take place in the evenings during summer), there’s a shorter time scale – generally about nine months in advance. However, all time trialling events under CTT Rules & Regulations have to be notified to the police at least 28 days prior to the event and are run in accordance with strict rules regulation and meet strict risk assessment criteria. Numbers of riders are strictly governed.

There are a number of other organisations who organise events on the public highway and it is the sportive type of event where many hundreds, often thousands, of riders take part, and these are generally the ones that cause more disruption, such as in some of the posts above. These events are not generally governed by any officially recognised cycling organisation and are largely a free for all.

Unfortunately, like equestrians, not all cyclists belong to a responsible organisation or take notice of advice given to them.

If you have a problem with cyclists in the area, or events that take place where you ride, contact the local cycling club and see how you can help each other towards better understanding. We can supply as many leaflets as people have outlets for. Bells on bikes are really a thing of the past, but shouting out is easy. There is room for us all provided that a little courtesy, consideration and common sense is shown for each other – however good we all are, there will always be those riders (whether on two wheels or four legs!) who will be ignorant and arrogant, and sadly we cannot be held responsible for them. Working together we will all be safe to enjoy our respective hobbies.

 

[Kentphil]

I think that we are saying the same thing! The well organised and regulated events are generally not a problem and I agree that there should be room for all given a bit of courtesy on both sides. It is the "other organisations" that are the problem. I am just waiting for the civil servants to approve an e-petition which is carefully worded so that it should only affect those who deliberately sail clos to, but not beyond, the limits. When it is approved, I will post the link here and hope that people, both horse riders and bicylcists will find it a positive suggestion. It is not aimed at the cyclists themselves, but at the increasing number of border line organisations.

 

[Ptolemy]

I find cyclists more annoying as a driver tbh, I drive a lot for my job, and am often held up by them. The worst yet was a lycra clad numbered person, so I assume he was in a race of some sort, causing a 1.5mile tailback as he slogged up a windy hill, yet didn't at any point pull over to let traffic pass! Whilst I would never risk overtaking when unsafe, it is incredibly annoying, especially when they don't even acknowledge you as you pass them safely, so I can kinda understand why people get frustrated and overtake when they perhaps shouldn't! They drive me nuts, and I am a rider with a higher tolerance level than Joe Public for the vulnerable road users out there!!

This.

I'm in an area that seems to be a haven for cyclists and in the space of a few short months I have grown to hate them with a vengeance.

One cyclist, not too bad depending on the road, although the reluctance to pull in no matter how much traffic is piled up behind them is infuriating

Two cyclists, annoying. They invariably ride close to each other, and often side by side. On narrow country roads this makes them hard to pass. It wouldn't be so bad if they'd leave a car space between them so that you could overtake them one at a time.

Three or more cyclists. A complete pain in the backside to the point where you start thinking of alternative routes even if they take you miles in another direction.

Entire groups. These are the worst. The clubs that move out en masse and insist on taking up the entire lane. They go fast and don't seem to care about anything or anyone.

The most soul destroying part... after having spent 5-10 minutes trying to safely overtake cyclists, you hit a red traffic light, and they just cruise past you again on the inside and you are back to square one.

/rant

 

[Ptolemy]

Just to add, I have nothing against cycling as a means of transport or fitness or whatever. What I would LOVE to see is cyclists getting their own paths. Everywhere.

My bike is currently sitting in the shed because, to be honest, I don't have the guts to go out on the roads around here. If there were safe paths I'd be out pretty much every day.

 

[Tiddlypom]

As I said previously, I am a cyclist (although a touring cyclist not a racer) in a family of cyclists.

We live on a national cycle route, so we do get a lot of cyclists especially in the summer. The Lycra clad racing types are on the whole miserable selfish blighters who think that the whole world is out to get them. I always say a cheery 'hello' to them if I'm out and about and I usually just get a blank stare back in return, even if I'm on my own bike!

The families tootling about enjoying the fresh air though are a delight, even if they are more wobbly.

 

[Ptolemy]

Oh the tootlers don't bother me so much, we have a couple of old folks who cycle around at a snails pace, but strangely I'm quite happy to tootle along behind them. It's nice to see older people getting out and about and doing something they enjoy whilst getting exercise.

It's the lycra brigade I have issue with... mostly because I think they should know better perhaps.

For instance... a lycra clad numpti on a country road at 7am with no high vis in the middle of winter. I'm sure if something were to happen though it would all be the driver's fault and the poor cyclist would be the victim, no matter how invisible he was.

On the subject of cyclists at night... I wish to goodness that there was some law regulating bike lights. I swear some of them are brighter than headlights, the fact that they aren't set at a proper angle makes things worse. Don't get me started on strobes...

 

[Tiddlypom]

We had another unpublicised sportive running past our house today! Not nearly as big as the one in the summer, more like dozens of cyclists rather than 100's this time but even so it would have been nice to know. I waved a couple down for a friendly word and it tuned out that it was a 60 mile event starting from a restaurant about 10 miles away. There was a steady stream of them for a couple of hours this morning.

As I said previously, the problem is as much with the car drivers who get so antagonised by being held up by the cyclists that makes venturing out on the roads so unpleasant. Our lanes are narrow (no white lines in the middle) and have many blind bends. Lovely cycling for the individual but not ideal for a horde.

 

[sport horse]

We have a massive one in my area - I got caught out on a young horse when they ran the first one and not one cyclist stopped they just carried on even when asked to let us get out of the way. I found out the organiser from the internet and they run it each year, three distances up to 50k. I offered to help them contact all the yards/riding clubs/pony clubs etc if they let me have details. I heard from them two days before the next planned event and they thought that was quite adequate to contact all riders within a 50k distance! I withdrew my offer of help, keep an eye for the date and my horses stay at home or go out very early that day.

 

[Kentphil]

We have a massive one in my area - I got caught out on a young horse when they ran the first one and not one cyclist stopped they just carried on even when asked to let us get out of the way. I found out the organiser from the internet and they run it each year, three distances up to 50k. I offered to help them contact all the yards/riding clubs/pony clubs etc if they let me have details. I heard from them two days before the next planned event and they thought that was quite adequate to contact all riders within a 50k distance! I withdrew my offer of help, keep an eye for the date and my horses stay at home or go out very early that day.

It is the lack of notice or consultation which prompted me to start this thread. When I spoke to the organisers of the event in my area on the day (first I heard of it), they were very dismissive of any advice just stating that the roads are public and implying that they could not care less about the "locals". I thought that the people I came across, UK Cycling Events, might have ben an exception, but they seem to be quite typical.

 

[pottamus]

I would like to point out that I'm not referring to ordinary cyclists wearing jeans or whatever, just the ' Lycra lovelies' . I also wonder how many carry third party insurance. I too, live in Kent and ever since the Tour de France passed this way we have been plagued with groups of Lycra lovelies.Normal cyclists are usually very considerate.

Comments like this are off topic and not very helpful...please do not tar us all with the same brush! I am one of these people (in Lycra) and I am also a horse rider and walker.

 

[WelshD]

There have been a few sportives around here. I often see directional arrow signs on the routes - surely it would not be too hard to stick up another sign the week before that says 'cycling event Sat 30th'

I waver between sympathy and frustration with cyclists - i guess like most hobbies it is the few that ruin things

 

[Montyforever]

Used to be in an area with tons of cyclists and events, drove me mad! The trouble is on the whole they were inconsiderate, it was only the odd few that would slow down, or at least shout ahead if they were coming from behind. Ive had more consideration over the years from people on motorbikes. We had huge races literally going past the yard gates with no warnings. The individuals out are 9/10 times great but again those in lycra spoil it for the rest
My pony will happily pass lorries/tractors without a second thought but a couple of bikes can send her into a panic.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

Public roads are not there for sporting events they are there to get from A to B. Regardless of individuals behaviour both good and bad I think it is absolutely ludicrous to be able to run any sort of mass event on public roads without planning including, working with the Local Council and Police to make sure that those living and working in the Area can go about their daily business safely.

I've not been caught out on a road as I'm lucky enough to have direct access to extensive off-road riding but I did get entangled in the Wiggle South-Downs Rough Ride. The only warning was some obscure arrows with the word "Wiggle" written on them. I had no idea what that meant and had to look it up. Luckily my horse was a star and the cyclists were polite and considerate.

My friend is an avid road cyclist and has sent me some recent really good articles from cycling magazines telling cyclists how to treat and pass horse riders safely including Sportives. Maybe the sport beginning to recognise the impact on other users?

 

[cobalobM]

Just to add, I have nothing against cycling as a means of transport or fitness or whatever. What I would LOVE to see is cyclists getting their own paths. Everywhere.
.

round here they dont even use the cycle paths!!! there is a main road 2 mins from my house with a foot path and cycle path next to it (clearly signed) yet those (not all!!) in lycra think they are too good to use the cycle path so stay on the road. Have also seen videos on fb/youtube of cyclists cycling NEXT to a cycle lane on a main road in london.. I really do not get it