cyclist mown down by horsetrailer

totally agree its about finding the driver not what cyclist might have done.
also everyones different im a racing type as it was put and have never gone through a red light and always try and do everything properly. no one is perfect
 
I have to say i have a problem with cyclists racing on public highways. I'm fairly sure there's a clause in my insurance about not being covered for racing or pacemaking....what makes cyclists immune ?
 
Rambo said:
I have to say i have a problem with cyclists racing on public highways. I'm fairly sure there's a clause in my insurance about not being covered for racing or pacemaking....what makes cyclists immune ?
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Dont see many of them in High Viz either, and since when did a tiny red flashing light on a helmet become an approved rear lighting for a road going vehicle?
 
I hope the poor man makes a full recovery and is able to get back on his bike soon enough.

I think its quite plausable that the driver didn;t realise they had hit the man, my welsh cob does a lot of stamping and the occasional ramp kick in a trailer, it makes a hell of a racket. If there was a bump or bang, they may have assumed it was the horse. Obviously should have look in the mirror in any case.
 
When I was learning to tow I went passed a cyclist and he cycled into the side of the trailer :eek: I was only going abt 5mph at the time as pulling off and gave him plenty of room - he admitted it was his own fault :) However, I didn't hear the bang at all even with the window being open because my horse likes to try and kill the inside of the trailer on every trip :rolleyes: but as I was using my mirror at the time I saw it happen. Luckily apart from damaged pride the cyclist was fine :)
 
Further details:
The cyclist, Stuart Edwards, is not only a successful racing cyclist but also a serving Royal Marine.

4x4 may be red or brown in colour. Towing trailer.
Possibly travelling from Clearbrook to join A386.
Time 11.40-12 noon.
Overtaking a cyclist on a silver-coloured racing bike at location between Dartmoor Diner (Green Cafe) and Roborough Roundabout.

Police are asking ALL 4x4/horse trailer drivers who used that road around that time to contact them so that they can be ruled out of the enquiry.

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Police in Plymouth are continuing to appeal for witnesses to a road traffic collision which occurred on Sunday 28th August which left a 47 year old Royal Marine with serious life changing injuries.

Stuart Edwards, of Plymouth, was riding his silver Certini racing bike on the A386 in the direction of Plymouth when he was struck by a horse trailer causing him to fall off and sustain the injuries. The exact location being between the Dartmoor Diner (known locally as the Green Cafe) and Roborough roundabout.

The trailer was being towed by a 4 x 4 vehicle and did not stop at the scene after the collision. Police are appealing to any person who drove the A386 between 11:40 am and 12:00 towing a horse trailer to come forward.

They would also appeal to any witnesses who may have seen the collision or seen a vehicle fitting that description at the time to come forward.

Police Constable Abi Bedson of the Serious Collision Investigation Unit states: “We are keen to speak to anyone who may have information in connection with this incident. We do not have any information on the make or model of the vehicle involved although it may have been brown or red in colour and possibly may have joined the A386 from the Clearbrook direction, to this end we would ask that anyone who drove along this road with a horse trailer between the given times come forward so we can eliminate them from our enquiries. We are open to the possibility that the driver was unaware that he had collided with the pedal cycle so would ask that all drivers who may fit the description make contact”.

Stuart Edwards is a serving Royal Marine at Raleigh and is a regular cyclist, being an active member of the Royal Navy, Royal Marines Cycling Association.
He is still at Derriford Hospital having sustained two fractured ribs, a fractured right hip and a punctured lung. He is likely to remain in hospital for some days to come.

Any witnesses to the road traffic collision or anyone who has any information is asked to make contact with the Serious Collision Investigation Unit on 01752 891961 quoting police reference number 388 280811 .
Alternatively they can call Crimestoppers anonymously on 0800 555111 or report online at www.Crimestoppers-uk.org.
 
Rambo said:
I have to say i have a problem with cyclists racing on public highways. I'm fairly sure there's a clause in my insurance about not being covered for racing or pacemaking....what makes cyclists immune ?
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I have a problem with other drivers who think they own the roads, who cannot cope with the fact that other types of road user exist, particularly on country roads. How arrogant does a person have to be that they object to a tiny delay in their journey because another person is there?

I think you will find that racing insurance is required when racing, not training, and that all cyclists involved in licensed cycling racing events must have a race license which insures them while doing so. If only all car drivers who use the roads for "racing" were insured...
 
Mithras said:
I have a problem with other drivers who think they own the roads, who cannot cope with the fact that other types of road user exist, particularly on country roads. How arrogant does a person have to be that they object to a tiny delay in their journey because another person is there?

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if only it were a tiny delay. The faster bikes are very hard to pass in a lorry and the resulting tailbacks are often huge .I frequently drive drawbar vehicles ,and it is a fact that cyclists do not notice the trailer because they arent looking around . How often do you see one of these cyclists pull in to let traffic pass.NEVER!
 
Mike007 said:
if only it were a tiny delay. The faster bikes are very hard to pass in a lorry and the resulting tailbacks are often huge .I frequently drive drawbar vehicles ,and it is a fact that cyclists do not notice the trailer because they arent looking around . How often do you see one of these cyclists pull in to let traffic pass.NEVER!
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In that case, you will be required by law and by your employers to be qualified in how to drive it, including having awareness of the rights of other road users and how to avoid becoming frustrated and overtaking safely when towing. I actually found your earlier comments disturbing in the light that you drive for a living. Other road users should certainly not have to take steps to avoid being hit by you, simply because you are towing.

I also drive a small lorry and a car in similar circumstances, and I do not find cyclists to be a problem. They are simply one of many hazards/obstructions/tailbacks/things which you might reasonably encounter on a journey to slow you down. You are not unique in having your journey interrupted. I certainly am not so arrogant to think that I have the right to expect other people to pause their own journeys so as to let me past.

I find these sort of remarks distasteful on a thread which details the life changing injuries that this accident caused to the person involved.
 
Mithras said:
In that case, you will be required by law and by your employers to be qualified in how to drive it, including having awareness of the rights of other road users and how to avoid becoming frustrated and overtaking safely when towing. I actually found your earlier comments disturbing in the light that you drive for a living. Other road users should certainly not have to take steps to avoid being hit by you, simply because you are towing.

I also drive a small lorry and a car in similar circumstances, and I do not find cyclists to be a problem. They are simply one of many hazards/obstructions/tailbacks/things which you might reasonably encounter on a journey to slow you down. You are not unique in having your journey interrupted. I certainly am not so arrogant to think that I have the right to expect other people to pause their own journeys so as to let me past.

I find these sort of remarks distasteful on a thread which details the life changing injuries that this accident caused to the person involved.
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So you found my comments disturbing. I am not the one that makes a cyclist pull out behind a truck only to find it has a drawbar.Cyclists do not look around enough and cause the danger to themselves. I merely said that there is probably more to this than a "negligent driver"If you have a problem with that, well tough!
 
May we get back to the fact that this cyclist was in actual fact seriously injured and the car driver did not stop thereby causing a hit and run and very luckily not the death of a person.

I am an HGV Driver by trade and constantly see a number of car drivers who overtake and pull in "forgetting" they have a trailer on the back of them mostly caravans who only drive with them on the back occasionally. This does not occur with just car drivers though as you get the occasional hire vehicle that also is not aware of their length as they normally only drive a car and you as the vehicle that is being overtaken have to be just as vigulant to prevent an accident.

Mike007 you drive a waggon and drag unit and I hope you are aware of the wind disturbance between the unit and drag. So you check in your mirror and see the cyclist pull out behind the unit but before the trailer. Have you not thought it is your own actions of not giving the cyclist enough room so as your wind disturbance does not affect him?

Quite simple the law states that it is for the overtaking vehicle to do so safely and not cause an accident. The onus is not on the vehicle or cyclist being overtaken.

This particular road is a good wide road across fenced moorland not a narrow country lane and is in fact one of the main routes into Plymouth.
 
Lynette said:
May we get back to the fact that this cyclist was in actual fact seriously injured and the car driver did not stop thereby causing a hit and run and very luckily not the death of a person.

I am an HGV Driver by trade and constantly see a number of car drivers who overtake and pull in "forgetting" they have a trailer on the back of them mostly caravans who only drive with them on the back occasionally. This does not occur with just car drivers though as you get the occasional hire vehicle that also is not aware of their length as they normally only drive a car and you as the vehicle that is being overtaken have to be just as vigulant to prevent an accident.

Mike007 you drive a waggon and drag unit and I hope you are aware of the wind disturbance between the unit and drag. So you check in your mirror and see the cyclist pull out behind the unit but before the trailer. Have you not thought it is your own actions of not giving the cyclist enough room so as your wind disturbance does not affect him?

Quite simple the law states that it is for the overtaking vehicle to do so safely and not cause an accident. The onus is not on the vehicle or cyclist being overtaken.

This particular road is a good wide road across fenced moorland not a narrow country lane and is in fact one of the main routes into Plymouth.
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Thank you,I am well aware of the aerodynamic effects of the various vehicles I drive. The fact is that many cyclists are aware of nothing except the road in front of them.I watch them conciously pull out to slipstream behind the truck then realise there is a trailer.
 
Mike007 said:
Thank you,I am well aware of the aerodynamic effects of the various vehicles I drive. The fact is that many cyclists are aware of nothing except the road in front of them.I watch them conciously pull out to slipstream behind the truck then realise there is a trailer.
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I belive its called darwinism !!!!!:D
 
Mike007 said:
So you found my comments disturbing. I am not the one that makes a cyclist pull out behind a truck only to find it has a drawbar.Cyclists do not look around enough and cause the danger to themselves. I merely said that there is probably more to this than a "negligent driver"If you have a problem with that, well tough!
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I was always taught to drive in a way so that other road users, including cars, cyclists and pedestrians do not have to take action so as to avoid my vehicle. This is also the tenet of the Highway Code. I find your comments deeply worrying and hope you do not drive for a living anywhere near where I live so that I do not encounter you on the roads either in my car, lorry, horse or bike. I have visions of cyclists and pedestrians diving into the verges to avoid being hit by your trailer. You have a terrifyingly worrying attitude towards driving.

I think you will find the issue here is primarily likely to be dangerous or careless driving, not merely negligent driving.
 
Apparently they had pulled out from the Clearbrook turn off but I may be wrong. They should have
checked their left mirror before they pulled back in, no excuse for not knowing,
 
Mithras said:
I was always taught to drive in a way so that other road users, including cars, cyclists and pedestrians do not have to take action so as to avoid my vehicle. This is also the tenet of the Highway Code. I find your comments deeply worrying and hope you do not drive for a living anywhere near where I live so that I do not encounter you on the roads either in my car, lorry, horse or bike. I have visions of cyclists and pedestrians diving into the verges to avoid being hit by your trailer. You have a terrifyingly worrying attitude towards driving.

I think you will find the issue here is primarily likely to be dangerous or careless driving, not merely negligent driving.
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Dont worry I am a very patient driver. I get used to meeting so many f++k wits both on the road and sometimes on the internet . The sort of people who think negligent driving is less serious than careless driving and are completely unable to read what someone else has actualy said. By the way did you read the highway code or just look at the pictures.
 
Mike007 said:
Dont worry I am a very patient driver. I get used to meeting so many f++k wits both on the road and sometimes on the internet . The sort of people who think negligent driving is less serious than careless driving and are completely unable to read what someone else has actualy said. By the way did you read the highway code or just look at the pictures.
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There is no criminal charge of negligent driving. I assume you are aware that there is a difference between criminal and civil law? Do you understand concepts such as differing burdens of proof? Are you even aware how civil law operates - what you are trying to claim is that a cyclist who is injured by your negligent driving by hitting a trailer you are towing while you overtake would be contributarily negligent in civil law, despite there being nor recorded precedents. Any criminal charges would of course be additional to any civil claims.

Are you even aware what happens in a civil case, as opposed to a criminal case, and how the onus of proof in the former is on the Plaintiff to prove their case, not for the Defendant to disprove it unless the doctrine of res ipsa locquiter applies? (which again seems unlikely since there are no recorded cases for your claim of a cyclist being at fault for cycling into a overtaking vehicle). Are you also aware that since you would be employed while driving, not only would a higher standard of care be required of you than a leisure driver, but that your employers could also be held vicariously liable for your actions? Are you even aware that should you, as an employed driver, be involved in any accident, your comments on this website could possibly be traced?
 
Oh ,your one of those ,full of words but hasnt a clue. Whilst there is not a charge of negligent driving ,the concept of negligence certainly exists in both civil and criminal law. Please dont try to be clever you clearly arent up to it.
 
To be honest my main problem with this thread is the title .. mown down by horse trailer !!! it makes it sound like they drove at the cyclist on purpose ran him over then drove off..
my guess is the cyclist was clipped by the trailer either because said cyclist wobled out into its path or the driver mis judged the width or failed to see the rider and are maybe unaware they were involved in a colision and it was an accident .. hopefully the true facts will come out and the cyclist will make a full and speedy recovery....
 
Mike007 said:
Oh ,your one of those ,full of words but hasnt a clue. Whilst there is not a charge of negligent driving ,the concept of negligence certainly exists in both civil and criminal law. Please dont try to be clever you clearly arent up to it.
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There is no concept of negligence in criminal law charges other than in corporate criminal liability which is a relatively new statutory charge and not the first choice in relation to driving offences.

Would you like to try again, this time explaining what it is that you are actually trying to say, but correctly this time?
 
I see this thread has deteriorated into the usual insults and 'I'm better than you at driving....'-type-thread....

Let's hope the police catch up with the driver, and the proper procedures followed, and most importantly...the cyclist makes a full recovery.....
 
Mithras said:
There is no concept of negligence in criminal law charges other than in corporate criminal liability which is a relatively new statutory charge and not the first choice in relation to driving offences.

Would you like to try again, this time explaining what it is that you are actually trying to say, but correctly this time?
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Criminal law is not just statute law. If this cyclist had been killed ,the driver would have possibly been facing a manslaughter charge . The courts would most certainly have considered whether the driver was negligent.
 
Mike007, GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND BLOODY WELL SHUT UP !!!!!!!
This poor man could have been killed and you are using this thread to belittle and insult every other LEGITIMATE road user other than yourself ! :mad:


Sorry everyone else about that outburst.
I sincerely hope this man has a full recovery and is able to fully return to his work, and hobbies.
It's very sad that in this day and age, some people don't notice vulnerable road users.
I have ridden horses, cycled, walked and ridden a motorbike and it is sometimes terrifying to have cars and lorries pass with inches to spare. The turbulence from passing lorries can feel like you are going to be sucked under the wheels, especially when cycling. What's so wrong with giving people plenty of room to be SAFE when you overtake ? It's ok for the drivers, wrapped up safely in their metal cocoons with the stability of 4 or more wheels, crumple zones and airbags. "I'm alright Jack" springs to mind. I'm a car driver too (just don't have one at the moment), so know full well of my responsibilities towards all road users. Hey, I even thank drivers who slow down to pass me while I'm walking on a country lane with no footpath.
 
I can't believe how this thread had deteriorated. It the title had been "Horse mown down....." then I'm sure there would have been a lynch mob ready to kill the driver. But because a horsey person hurt a cyclist then it's the cyclists fault!
Speaking to my OH who cycles - you can't fail to notice a trailer next to you at it squeeks and rattles past, I very much doubt the cyclist was unaware of it's presence and pulled out.
I was always taught that when overtaking a cyclist to always check your mirrors to check they're still ok as you pull away and make sure you give them plenty of room.

I also frequently hear that drivers underestimate how fast some people cycle - start to overtake, realise the cyclist is actually going 20mph+, run out of room, panic and pull back in forgetting the cyclist is still there.
 
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I will put my hand up and say I very much dislike the people who race their bikes around Ranmore. They use the single road past us as a speed track which is incredibly dangerous as it is a: narrow b:not 1 way. We also have a huge number every weekend. Converesly, the mountain bikers or family groups on bikes seem to have about 5 times the road awareness of the racing bikes.

However this is not getting away from the fact that a man has been badly injured. I have no idea if it would be possible to not realise you had knocked someone off their bike and wish him every speedy recovery. We have, on occasion, picked up cyclists that motorists have knocked off their bikes so do have every sympathy.

I never thought of the slipstream impact I could have on a cyclist but equally when I meet them its on country roads so not going fast anyway.
 
I hope the cyclist make a swift and full recovery.

My dad is a cyclist and has been in lots of accidents over the years. The most recent was the worst - he was 'hit' by a van and ended up in intensive care with fractured skull, broken ribs and collar bone. The van driver only knew my dad had come off his bike because he looked in his wing mirror.

My dad couldn't remember anything. When the police investigated what had happen they found that the van hadn't actually made contact with my dad at all. It had driven over a wrench (left in the road after council roadworks!) And the wrench had flown up and smashed into the spokes of my dad's bike, sending him crashing into a wall! A freak accident!

So I do believe that the trailer driver might be unaware they have caused the accident. However could be the case that, as already mentioned, the trailer was stolen or driver didn't have the correct licence. Hope police get to the bottom of it and most importantly that the cyclist gets better soon!
 
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