cyclists spooking girls horse - RANT

We rode out the day of a local bike rally a couple of weeks ago. 10 ponies, 200 bikes, going through a chocolate box village and having a ball. The only ones inconvenienced were the cars, a couple of whom looked truly intimidated. I guess they suddenly felt like the vulnerable ones! :D
 
In my case I was turning left onto a bridlepath to let a group of a about half a dozen cyclists past as it was a blind bend and safer than them going round. One decided not to wait till we were all the way in and cycled past at speed while our bottom was still sticking out. Brushed his tail as he went past. Tb jumped forward and unfortunately landed on some rubbish and polystyrene dumped on the bridlepath sending him backwards with bottom sticking out and holding up the polite people who had stopped.
 
The post isn't another go at cyclists being arrogant swines although some can be, as can car drivers and horse riders. Its more about the seemingly anti horse stance becoming an ever louder voice. It doesn't matter how many cyclists were involved at the end of the day (if report correct) its more about a girl got injured when riding her horse and is anything going to be done if there was a person or person's to blame? If a person on a road is knocked over by a car or a bike it is straight away the fault of the driver/cyclist, yet a rider is hit on their horse it is always assumed that it is the horses fault. As has been noted it's not the official bike rides that seem to be causing issues, but the unofficial ones that without warning you can be surrounded by 40 bikes who seemingly have not a care for any other rode user. Most horses that go on the rode are good with traffic (I hope!!) and hopefully have insurance, but at the end of the day as we know they have a mind of their own and can have an off day too. In an ideal world all bridlepaths would be linked together, with minimal road work and only horses could use them. The cyclists could then have their cycle paths and the walkers their footpaths.
 
windseywoo said:
Its more about the seemingly anti horse stance becoming an ever louder voice.
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Given the number of posts I've seen on this forum moaning about how every other road user should completely modify their behaviour and disrupt what ever they are doing for the sake of the rider out on a nice hack then I'm not surprised.
Clinging to the very out dated and frankly pointless stance of horses where here before any other road user so have all the rights and others have non just doesn't cut it these days.
If horses weren't already allowed on the roads and someone suggest it would be a good idea to do so the answer would be a resounding no.
I think riders have to accept that they can no longer do what they did even 10 years ago. The world is changing and the riders need to change with it, not moan constantly about it.
 
I ride my horses in Epping Forest, and we share the tracks with many cyclists, dog walkers, families out for a stroll on a nice day. I would say, probably 99% of the cyclists I have met have been very polite and courteous, and we always say hello to each other if passing in opposite directions. I remember one occasion, I was hacking with my friend, and we had a couple of the kids from the yard with us. We were having a lovely canter up one of the hills, and guys on bikes came towards us. We immediately slowed down, but the 2 guys pulled over and waved us on. We trotted up to them, and as we passed, all said thankyou. They told us that it was really nice, we were the first riders to have thanked them that day.

My horses are all very good on the roads, but a couple of years ago, I was hacking in one of the lanes on Dolly. I rarely ride the roads as I don't have to, but it had been raining for what seemed like ever, and all the fields and tracks were muddy. Was plodding along, minding my own business, when a tractor came towards us. He slowed right down, was on the opposite side of the road. Next thing I knew, I was going in the opposite direction on a tiny grass verge, with a massive ditch to my right! I pulled her up and turned her round, and the poor farmer jumped out of his tractor full of apologies. I thanked him, told him we were all right, and said, you'd think she'd know better at 20 years old, and living on a working farm!

I think horses will always catch us out now and again, but we can't expect the world to revolve around us. Like has been said, there is good and bad in everyone, and we need to share the roads.
 
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Yes I agree that riders have to be more pro active, we have to ride on a very fast a road to get to the local bridlepaths and if my horse wasn't good on the road I wouldn't dream of going on it. We wear high viz so that we can be seen and always thank drivers who are courteous. When on the country lanes we always try to move over to allow cars past, but if someone's being a DxxK we'll say so. Just because things have changed and roads are busier doesn't mean you have to fear for your life, because someone doesn't want to slow down for 5 seconds.
So paddymonty what do you suggest us riders do then instead of moaning? Is a horsey driving test something which we should all do and have a card to prove it? Should children under 17 be banned from riding on the road because they don't know how to drive? Should 3rd party insurance be mandatory and a database put up so when a rider has an accident it can be proven they are covered? Should there be more in the driving test on how drivers should behave around horses? Should horses be banned from the roads entirely, because if that's the case I might as well give up now, rather than ride in a school or field every day?
I'm sure there are bike sites and car sites that are moaning about us being on the road, just as much as we moan about them.
 
windseywoo said:
If a person on a road is knocked over by a car or a bike it is straight away the fault of the driver/cyclist, yet a rider is hit on their horse it is always assumed that it is the horses fault.
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But they weren't 'hit' by the bike, more the horse got scared and she fell off. I guess in a round about way of thinking it would be the same as me on my bike swerving because a pigeon flew up and surprised me, then falling off my bike. Though the pigeon caused me to fall off you couldn't really say it was the pigeon's 'fault', as it wasn't deliberate or it being stupid. If they were being ridiculous, flying round bends and overtaking on all sides really closely then it would be their fault, but it sounds like they were being sensible, just in a large group?

I do think TTs and sportives should be better advertised/have the routes marked out (they will be on FB but if you don't know who is organising them then how can you find it?), very lucky we don't have one round here but we do get the 'peletons' from the local clubs on a Saturday morning, always at the same time!
 
There is a HUGE lack of knowledge of horses on roads these days, my dad has recently passed his advanced driving test. The IAM advise their drivers to beep the horn on country lanes on sharp/blind corners to alert oncoming cars. My dad has explained that you run a big risk of surprising a horse if you do that and he's trying to get them to change the rule.

My mare is good in traffic, we've ridden down some busy roads past some scary stuff and as long as it doesn't spring up on her as a surprise she's fine, but if something suddenly appears then she'll spook, she's a horse after all.
 
This...Agree with Dizzle. """There is a HUGE lack of knowledge of horses on roads these days, my dad has recently passed his advanced driving test. The IAM advise their drivers to beep the horn on country lanes on sharp/blind corners to alert oncoming cars. My dad has explained that you run a big risk of surprising a horse if you do that and he's trying to get them to change the rule."""
A friend years ago apparently had this argument with his advanced driving instructor too. He thought use of the horn was ill advised
but the instructor couldn't or wouldn't understand.
 
Goldenstar said:
A horse that can't cope with a car horn tooting should not be on the road .
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I cannot understand the reasoning behind sounding your horn before a sharp bend. If everyone slowed right down to a crawl at a sharp bend then surely they would all be able to stop safely. IME this tooting of the horn business is an excuse to not slow down. Had a group of scooter riders pass the other day, each of them
tooted before they approached a sharp bend but didn't reduce their speed. Anyway, I digress....good & bad in all walks of life, on or off the roads🐎
 
I can only think of two reasons to sound your horn when approaching sharp bend:

1. You toot and if you don't hear an answering toot you're clear to go as fast as you like
2. You toot to say "coming through, get out of my way" so that you can continue as fast as you like.

Neither of these scenarios take account of anyone who cannot toot back and/or get out of the way, so not helpful for walkers, cyclists or horse riders. Or people listening to the Archers when there's about to be a big reveal in the storyline.

Is it not better to drive according to the road conditions? If you can't see the road ahead then you should slow down to a speed which means that stopping at short notice will not be a problem.
 
ChesnutsRoasting said:
I cannot understand the reasoning behind sounding your horn before a sharp bend. If everyone slowed right down to a crawl at a sharp bend then surely they would all be able to stop safely. IME this tooting of the horn business is an excuse to not slow down. Had a group of scooter riders pass the other day, each of them
tooted before they approached a sharp bend but didn't reduce their speed. Anyway, I digress....good & bad in all walks of life, on or off the roads��
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It's quite an old fashioned action IMO and not something I ever really come across. Apart from which who has right of way? The person that toots first? :lol:
 
webble said:
It's quite an old fashioned action IMO and not something I ever really come across. Apart from which who has right of way? The person that toots first? :lol:
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Yes. Holidaying in Brittany in the '80s all the French drivers would toot at bends - like I say, an excuse not to slow down😜😀
 
ChesnutsRoasting said:
I cannot understand the reasoning behind sounding your horn before a sharp bend. If everyone slowed right down to a crawl at a sharp bend then surely they would all be able to stop safely. IME this tooting of the horn business is an excuse to not slow down. Had a group of scooter riders pass the other day, each of them
tooted before they approached a sharp bend but didn't reduce their speed. Anyway, I digress....good & bad in all walks of life, on or off the roads��
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The route to my instructors yard has many narrow blind bends. When taking my horse to her I crawl round them and toot my lorry horn.
I'm not expecting to be allowed to go haring round the corner, I am sounding a warning to other road users that might be coming the other way (that I can't see) that they might also want to slow to a crawl.
 
Meredith said:
This...Agree with Dizzle. """There is a HUGE lack of knowledge of horses on roads these days, my dad has recently passed his advanced driving test. The IAM advise their drivers to beep the horn on country lanes on sharp/blind corners to alert oncoming cars. My dad has explained that you run a big risk of surprising a horse if you do that and he's trying to get them to change the rule."""
A friend years ago apparently had this argument with his advanced driving instructor too. He thought use of the horn was ill advised
but the instructor couldn't or wouldn't understand.
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The tooting isn't an issue for me and I think all horses should be able to cope with that - and sirens for that matter. However you're right about the lack of education on driving past horses. I recently had to do a naughty girl speed awareness course. They spent a good 10 minutes covering how to pass a cyclist safely and not one mention of a horse.

I raised it there and then and mentioned the story (I think I saw a link on here or maybe on facebook) where a girl was hacking out using a GPS tracker and when her horse spooked and span at something, the sideways movement was recorded at 53mph. The others on the course were astounded and all said they'd give horses more room knowing that. (I'm not holding my breath) The course leader was a bit apologetic and said they normally mention horses but he'd forgotten. A colleague was on the very next course the afternoon after I had been in the morning (with the same guy) and again there was no mention of horses so it clearly wasn't just that he'd forgotten on my course.

My course feedback questionnaire made for interesting reading!

ETA: The technical term for the horn is the "audible warning device". It is simply that - a means of giving an extra signal as to your presence. It doesn't give you any licence to go faster but in a single track road with blind bends it's an extra safety measure. We have one single track road near us with a horrendous bend and I toot the horn every single time I go round it - albeit at less than 10mph. I have often gone round the bend to find a car already reversing out of the way because they heard me toot and have done the same when I've heard them toot.
 
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We all have our attitudes...some good, some bad. Does not matter whether you are a cyclist, horse rider, walker, off roader...anything. We also perhaps do not all have a comprehension of the difficulties we face within our own sports. Horses being spooky and jumpy, cyclists that really cannot just stop dead when they come across a horse rider or they would be over the handle bars etc etc. We just have to get on with it and accept that sometimes things happen beyond our control or we come across idiots with attitude problems in all walks of life and all types of activities.
 
FfionWinnie said:
Your horse should be safe to be on a road. Doesn't sound like that one was. What could the cyclists have actually done? Stopped and crashed into each other?
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It's easy to say your horse should be safe on the road, however how do you go about that? My mare is very green on the road, I've begun taking her out along a short bit of road to get to an off-road track - so far I trot along the road bit just so I get off it pronto and don't meet any traffic (don't mind the odd car, but she's yet to meet a lorry for example). A horse isn't born used to traffic, you have to give them the experience and confidence and that's very hard when you have a youngster and everybody seems intent on driving too fast or doing stupid things in passing. 40 bikes IMO is a ridiculous number to be out and about, was it a bike race? If so, surely there were signs everywhere? If not, there should have been. I see signs near mine when there's a race on and I simply do not go out. I don't see why cyclists are allowed to race on open roads. I bet there'd be uproar if we held an endurance ride purely along busy roads...
 
Goldenstar said:
A horse that can't cope with a car horn tooting should not be on the road .
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If I'm hacking on a quiet country road with no noise around, then a car horn sounds then a car suddenly comes into sight then I'm sure even my bombproof pony would jump. She's been happily stood next to a car using a horn to start competitors all morning but a surprise horn then a car would make her jump.
 
It's all about de-sensitising to traffic, and the only way to do that is to put the work in at home and out and about and yes, people do drive too close and too fast, so we've got to be sure our horses can cope with that to the best of our abilities. This video gives an example of the work that Barry Hook does with traffic shy horses https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YTtxYPnTN0

My paddock is beside a motorway on one side, it makes for great traffic proofing, but I still always make sure that horses are used to being passed at close quarters in all weather conditions while being ridden.
 
touchstone said:
It's all about de-sensitising to traffic, and the only way to do that is to put the work in at home and out and about and yes, people do drive too close and too fast, so we've got to be sure our horses can cope with that to the best of our abilities. This video gives an example of the work that Barry Hook does with traffic shy horses https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YTtxYPnTN0

My paddock is beside a motorway on one side, it makes for great traffic proofing, but I still always make sure that horses are used to being passed at close quarters in all weather conditions while being ridden.
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Touchstone, that is the most amazing horse video I have ever seen. Clearly they want you to subscribe - are the videos about driving or desensitising? I am sure that lots of us would have stuff to learn from this!
 
I honestly have never had a problem with cyclists and the horse. The local ones are always really courteous. Even once we encountered a party of fifteen motorbikers and they were lovely and stopped for us. I do think the sounding the bell is really helpful when overtaking from behind so that should be common knowledge.
 
canteron said:
Touchstone, that is the most amazing horse video I have ever seen. Clearly they want you to subscribe - are the videos about driving or desensitising? I am sure that lots of us would have stuff to learn from this!
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He takes driving horses/ponies for re-training and just videos what he has in at the time. Lots of them will relate to handling and ridden issues too however, as well as teaching a horse basic manners such as how to stand still so can prove useful to plenty of people I would think.
 
Touchstone, my horses are good in traffic, but not that good, I won't go on main roads, but watching a few of his videos has really made me think of a few ideas of things I can do with my over sensitive horse, quite inspiring.
 
windseywoo said:
Well I've just read this article about the girl being hurt when her horse was spooked, when being passed (opposite side of road) by up to 40 bikes, having to go to hospital and I must admit I've blown my top when I read the response from the Sustain cycle representative. "It is advised that cyclists give way to horses on bridleways"!!! Advised to give way I don't think so, so I've sent a slightly snotty e-mail to Sustain about how people seem to treat horse riders as second class citizens wherever they are and for once that the cyclists actually should give way, not maybe! I'm slightly calming down now, but all this anti horse sxxt on the roads is getting on my nerves.
Every week there seems to be a new cycle route opening up somewhere to get cyclists off the road and into lovely places, so why not us when seemingly the rest of the public want us off the roads as soon as possible. I think the BHS do a good job in a very hostile environment, but until we get rid of this only toffs ride horses and why can't they ride on their acreage!!! it's not going to change. (Some car rental survey saying 94% of their clients said horses shouldn't be on the roads).
Am I being unreasonable or have I had too much sugar at work today?
PS I hope that the girl is ok and recovers quickly.
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Very well said Windseywoo. Its about time more bridleways were opened up and as for cyclists (Lycra clad loonies) as I call them, don't get me started. They are some of the most selfish and ignorant people on the roads today.
 
Dizzle said:
If I'm hacking on a quiet country road with no noise around, then a car horn sounds then a car suddenly comes into sight then I'm sure even my bombproof pony would jump. She's been happily stood next to a car using a horn to start competitors all morning but a surprise horn then a car would make her jump.
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What would it matter if she jumped no different to a horse seeing a peasant you just keep riding where your going to .
 
Goldenstar said:
What would it matter if she jumped no different to a horse seeing a peasant you just keep riding where your going to .
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I do hope that was a Freudian slip!😜😀 but all this tooting approaching bends could become a pain in the arse - so unnecessary most of the time imo.
 
At home we drive the tractor at the young horses ,we drive the lorry beside them so close I can easily touch it we drive bouncy empty trailers around close to them we drive up to the stables and stop as fast as we can we drive all types of lawn mowers and quads past the stable doors or when the horses are tied on the yard .
We ride in the fields while the rollers and harrows are being used my OH rides his bike past them at high speed and into them when they are standing.
We overtake them very close on the drive we do everything we can think of to get them used to what life's going be like out there .
But it's very difficult to get a horses used to forty bikes overtaking it all at once unless you have a lot of friends who like bikes .
You just have to trust to your own good reactions and yours horses trust in your abilities as a leader .
 
My cob is terrified of bikes, he doesn't mind lorries or tractors but hates bikes. He tolerates them coming towards him but if they come up behind him and then pass it completely freaks him out and he has been known to take off up the road. Thankfully he has out grown that habit. I can't really complain as I don't have to do any road work at all if I don't want to except for a little lane that leads onto the mountain but it would be nice to have some decent bridleways.
 
I really do think it depends on your area. Being on the ex Olympic tracks means a vast number of cyclists want to do this, en masse and frequently. These I detest with a compete passion and I say this as a road user, not a rider. They behave as if they are in a race and there is nothing funny about coming around a corner on a single track road to be faced with a large number of cyclists coming at you. Funnily, when I have talked to them, they are never locals either!

Your normal road cyclists are not a problem, and yes I agree, we have, as riders, to do our best to ensure our horses can cope with other potential hazards out hacking. I never managed to ensure my horse could cope with a trailer banging along at speed though!

My other real gripe is drivers overtaking cyclists. Yes, it is annoying you have to wait but please don't overtake on bends. Had a few near misses around us when meeting a car coming on the wrong side of the road...and seen a few cars really not giving the cyclists enough room.
 
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