Czech German Shepherds

[Hackback]

I've just seen some lovely puppies advertised for sale (not that we're looking for a puppy, I was looking for someone else!) but it made me wonder what the temperament of Czech lines was like compared to 'normal' GSDs. The puppies looked strong, straight backed, alert and had small sticky up ears, in contrast to many GSD pups that look more cuddly with flip flop ears. I really liked the look of them, but their expression reminded me a little of our own GSD X Malinois who from the moment we picked him up proved to be a very high drive and reactive dog. We chose him because we'd had a pure GSD previously who ended up with back/hip problems. I nearly took him back almost as soon as we brought him home as I thought we'd made a huge mistake - he wanted to chase and bite everything, including our feet if we moved an inch. We kept him though (he's 11 now) and he has been a very loyal family member, but in his younger days not to be trusted with anyone else and especially small children. When I took him to puppy training for socialisation they made us sit in the corner away from the other dogs and people ... so that didn't really work out, although one of the instructors who was a police dog handler loved him. Both his parents were working security dogs so I don't know how much of his temperament is typical of the Mali breed and how much because of his lineage. Really he should have been a working dog and not a pet.

Sorry for the waffle, but the point I am getting to is that despite the fact that we love Paddy I really wouldn't choose a dog with his temperament again. So are there any GSD experts out there that could tell me whether a Czech GSD would be similar in temperament, or if they are more like a normal GSD? I don't mind the exercise involved with a high energy dog (take them out on our bikes) but I prefer a calmer temperament.

Thanks if you got to the end!

 

[CorvusCorax]

If you want to PM me the pedigree I will have a look at the lines for you as 'Czech' could mean a lot of things.

I won't compare them to a show or pet line GSD as the gene pool is so far apart that they might as well be different breeds.

As a generalisation, in terms of working lines, the 'old' Czech dogs are much larger, slower maturing, additonally some lines can carry hip and elbow problems (I know a few people who have been badly stung by an international broker).
They look very impressive.
Much calmer and less prey driven than their sportier cousins (and Malis) although still capable of being very active.
As a rule they tend to be quite reserved. They are more 'civil' (also known as 'on the person', they will react to a threat rather than channel aggression through prey).
This is why they are generally crossed with west German working lines to make (very successful) competition dogs.
The 'border patrol' line thing, if you come across it, like 'DDR lines' is a bit of an outdated sales pitch TBH. The Iron Curtain came down a long time ago and those lines went with it, by and large and all it means is the dogs went round a perimeter all day and occasionally got to chase someone and get a bite.
Depending on the lines, you're probably more likely to get a more balanced family dog, but one that would be more suspicious of an external threat.

I'd say the majority of your dog's issues were coming from the Mali side, maybe also the GSD depending on the lines, all of that sounds fairly normal!! You're also better going to a GSD specific or at least a working breed specific class or group, a lot of pet dog trainers don't know what to do with/don't want to deal with a dog that doesn't want to follow a bit of hotdog on it's nose, sadly.

 

[GSD Woman]

I don't have as much experience with the Czech dogs as CC but I would tend to stay away from them. My experience with them as they have been sharper than the western European working lines.

 

[Hackback]

Thank you very much both for taking the time to reply. I actually really like your description of them CorvusCorax, but the hip and elbow issue in some lines puts me off somewhat. I had hoped that they were perhaps less inbred and healthier than the show GSD lines. I did some googling on the breed and came across the border patrol thing on several sites but found it a bit confusing and waffly and also it was regurgitated almost word for word on the different sites, which is why I hopped on here to ask people who actually had experience and weren't just cobbling a piece together for a dog based website.

Thanks for offering to look at the lines too. There's no point at the moment, but I will remember this when the time does come to get a new puppy! I really don't want anything sharp again so I suppose choosing the right lines is key.

 

[CorvusCorax]

HD/ED isn't necessarily caused by inbreeding and as you say, it's all about looking at the lines and trying to mininise risk. In such a numerically large and genetically, er, special, breed, there are going to be health problems.
When one tries to 'preserve' a dwindling line (border patrol etc) you're going to *have* to line breed, and these aren't dogs that would have required huge amounts of agility.
And the bigger the dog, the quicker they break, in terms of GSDs.
On the show side, line breeding is caused by the institutional hyping of certain dogs as breeding animals. It's just the system.

The 'word for word' thing you mention is indicative of the promotion of these lines by certain international brokers/salespeople, ho hum!

If we're talking about personal preference, for me, I find them a bit flat/hard to get going in work, they *do* everything but with no flash, you have to work on that, because they're not supposed to be fizzy or hyperactive and why the older lines have been crossed with sportier, more prey-driven dogs and in turn that has improved health.

Paradoxically I'd actually recommend a well bred dog from Czech lines as a pet over, for instance, one of my crazy Belgian pocket rockets who's ears came up super early also with the caveat that any introductions to people coming into the home (especially tradespeople etc) are done very carefully.

 

[Moobli]

My current two are half Czech with some German and Belgian working bloodlines to keep the pedigrees more open. I’m more than happy with them. I think any lines you look at will have a variety of drives, abilities and temperaments so it’s maybe more important to find a breeder who has dogs with temperaments you could live with than looking for a specific line (or avoiding one).