Daily Mail on pet food
- Thread starter CorvusCorax
- Start date
BBH
Well-Known Member
I saw this article yesterday and wasn't surprised about the vet / feed companies working together to increase profits.
Its difficult to know what to feed because the advice is often contradictory.
My dog has fresh meat / fish and JWB biscuits and seems well on these although he has always had skin problems so who knows.
Its difficult to know what to feed because the advice is often contradictory.
My dog has fresh meat / fish and JWB biscuits and seems well on these although he has always had skin problems so who knows.
itsme123
Well-Known Member
I can totally believe this.
My best friend's mother had ragdoll (cats) for years. She was part of the CPL and followed her vets advice to the letter, which included feeding them a dried diet. Anyone who's had ragdolls will understand that their coat, together with them being indoor cats means you want as 'clean' a poo as possible, whilst still giving them all the goodness a cat of that size requires.
Imagine her horror when a few years later her eldest died of kidney problems and her new vet told her it was down to the dried diet her original vet had sworn by.
Her other cats all died before their time despite her having changed their diet.. all down to kidney related problems. it's made me so so wary of diet.
I've just started introducing Rosie to fresh meat, which she's having with a simple mix. I darent feed it raw because I can't be doing with all the goo on the kitchen floor (she takes her food from her bowl to the floor before eating it) so it's cooked. I've noticed a change in her bowel movements already, which are sloppier (but not runny). She adores chicken, and last night had beef mince which she wholfed down. My family all think I'm mad for cooking it and should just feed her raw rabbit and pheasant, and if it werent for the associated mess, I would.
My best friend's mother had ragdoll (cats) for years. She was part of the CPL and followed her vets advice to the letter, which included feeding them a dried diet. Anyone who's had ragdolls will understand that their coat, together with them being indoor cats means you want as 'clean' a poo as possible, whilst still giving them all the goodness a cat of that size requires.
Imagine her horror when a few years later her eldest died of kidney problems and her new vet told her it was down to the dried diet her original vet had sworn by.
Her other cats all died before their time despite her having changed their diet.. all down to kidney related problems. it's made me so so wary of diet.
I've just started introducing Rosie to fresh meat, which she's having with a simple mix. I darent feed it raw because I can't be doing with all the goo on the kitchen floor (she takes her food from her bowl to the floor before eating it) so it's cooked. I've noticed a change in her bowel movements already, which are sloppier (but not runny). She adores chicken, and last night had beef mince which she wholfed down. My family all think I'm mad for cooking it and should just feed her raw rabbit and pheasant, and if it werent for the associated mess, I would.
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
This is going to sound weird but I got real enjoyment from watching my dog crunching bones and eating raw meat, it is the most natural thing in the world for them to do and it was with a heavy heart that I had to give it up after such a short time.
However I could not watch him turn himself into what looked like a plucked chicken
and I think it is really bloody sad that it has got to the stage where, through 'evolution', a carnivorous animal like a dog cannot seem to be able to deal with protein.
However I could not watch him turn himself into what looked like a plucked chicken
prosefullstop
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
This is going to sound weird but I got real enjoyment from watching my dog crunching bones and eating raw meat, it is the most natural thing in the world for them to do and it was with a heavy heart that I had to give it up after such a short time.
However I could not watch him turn himself into what looked like a plucked chicken
and I think it is really bloody sad that it has got to the stage where, through 'evolution', a carnivorous animal like a dog cannot seem to be able to deal with protein.
[/ QUOTE ]
Prince has skin allergies. He takes two hydroxyzine pills per day, and I have to wipe his feet every other day. He is currently fed Hills Diet Formula, which I'm sure can't be any good for the issue, so at the advice of our local holistic pet store I am going to switch him to Scooter Food Salmon and Vegetable. Hopefully we can cut back on the meds once he's on a better food.
Stella is the most un-wolf like being you could imagine, yet she has zero allergies. For ease I'll probably stick her on the same food as Prince, though, in case piggie puglet decides to go delving into her bowl.
This is going to sound weird but I got real enjoyment from watching my dog crunching bones and eating raw meat, it is the most natural thing in the world for them to do and it was with a heavy heart that I had to give it up after such a short time.
However I could not watch him turn himself into what looked like a plucked chicken
[/ QUOTE ]
Prince has skin allergies. He takes two hydroxyzine pills per day, and I have to wipe his feet every other day. He is currently fed Hills Diet Formula, which I'm sure can't be any good for the issue, so at the advice of our local holistic pet store I am going to switch him to Scooter Food Salmon and Vegetable. Hopefully we can cut back on the meds once he's on a better food.
Stella is the most un-wolf like being you could imagine, yet she has zero allergies. For ease I'll probably stick her on the same food as Prince, though, in case piggie puglet decides to go delving into her bowl.
Lanky Loll
Well-Known Member
So much "advice" says amongst other things - 'don't feed cats human food', 'only feed dogs and cats dry food' etc - it's always made me wonder. My parents dogs have a combination of some wet & dry food but also scraps and dinner left overs - they've never had any kidney function problems etc. Our cats again have a combo of wet & dry but also any raw scraps (although one won't eat raw fish
) they're both at their happiest when given a few chicken livers
although the gunky mess does mean I'm slightly less happy.
ChesnutsRoasting
Well-Known Member
Regarding the vets having ulterior motives for selling certain animal food, I have long suspected this to be the case. Most vets in my opinion sell the same product and when one of my dogs has gone in to have an op under anaesthetic, they always recommend a particular tinned variety - which, incidently my dogs detest and refuse to eat. Put a bowl down with rice. cooked chicken and boiled egg they relish. Its all a bloody con.
ChesnutsRoasting
Well-Known Member
p.s Excellent post by the way!
CAYLA
Well-Known Member
I would agree to an extent......but then I have a 17 year old dog a 14 year old dog and a 17 year old cat and they have all been on mish mashed diet all theirs lives.....in their earlier days probably the nastiest crap ever thinking back 17 years......I dont believe all health issues are down to diet but no doubt a proportion are.
I would consider barf as it has to be beneficial to stick to a natural diet....I jsut wonder how much storage and quantity of food I would need for 10 dogs
I would consider barf as it has to be beneficial to stick to a natural diet....I jsut wonder how much storage and quantity of food I would need for 10 dogs
CAYLA
Well-Known Member
All of the above mentioned animals have never had a health issues in their lives, my whip x grey has had 2 dentals and thats it.
ChesnutsRoasting
Well-Known Member
Hell, for 10 dogs you'd need your own butchers shop. That would be a lot chooks.
Aru
Well-Known Member
The first issue id have with the article is the fact they seem to imply that all dried food is bad for cats...
Dried food can affect a minority of cats and cause kidney problems but its not the only factor involved neutered toms an inadequate intake of water and other things are involved to
...the vast majority of cats on dry food do very well
...and it is better for their teeth and easier to measure out and judge intake for each cat as well as being cheaper than wet food.
My own cat's have all been on dry food...
natural might be better but im an average pet owner...i want something that works,keeps the cats healthy,is convenient and wont break the bank...if they have the unlikely problem of kidney problems then il deal with that when we get there...
We did a lot of nutrition here in collage already and have never had a guest lecturer or representative of a food company speak to us so far....
In fact our lecturer took great pleasure in telling us that all sorts of crap goes into dog food in particular...they have different standards of ingredients and the laws around pet foods are fairly lax compared to humans its odd to find ones that even use real meat instead of derivatives....
He also said that there were plenty of dogs thriving on Lidl and tesco brand foods....and if they are healthy and happy then why change?
Its only when there are problems that he justified changing brands to a higher and therefore usually more expensive quality...
Yes practices do stock expensive food like RC and to be honest although the foods are more tailored to specific breeds and problems they are not all that different to standard foods... ingedient wise they may use more high quality sources but all foods have to fit a certain minimum standard anyway....some are more suited to specific problems than a plain brand though...
Practices do sell and occasionally advise the specificly designed foods...some more than others it depends on the vet involved and what intreast they have in nutrion as well
for one thing its generaly safer to advise a premium food like RC
its known to be relatively good standard and isnt known for causing issues...and if there are problems with that food then they will look into other options bt its easier to go with a safe one first..
...plus a vet practice is a business it makes sense to advise the food you sell in store??why does that surprise people?
Its also appaently not a good idea to advise a BARF diet to every client....
not everyone will follow it well enough to ensure the dog gets enough vitamins and minerals and it can take up a lot of time to prepare compared versus simply serving of dry food
....plus if someone gets food poisioning or manages to poision their dog or otherwise endanger their health on the diet you advised its the vets reputation that will be slandered and is their is a slight chance of being sued because you advised the diet....hard for them to prove its your fault they didnt follow the diet to a tee but who wants to be sued?
Article like this are what is helping bring things to a point where no vet will risk advising a standard food without going through a long list of possible risks and complications that are unlikely to happen to the large percentage of pets
....fair enough to point out possible complications of a dry food in cats...it can be a future issue but how far is to far?do you start telling people that a small anount of dogs may choke while eating food too?
Why should the vet have to warn people but the food company get away with having them sort of issues in a species specific food and not mention it on the label?
It quickly becomes a much safer option for the vet to just advise a high quality expensive food that doesnt cause any problems in that department and that costs way more even though the cat may never had a bad reaction to another food...or simply decide to refer to a nutritionalist for all food issues..
and then we will get given out about for costing people more money...
and is it really what the vast majority of pet owners want?
would we get accused of scare mongering if vets stopped advising dry food to cats because of a possible issue in the minority?
Yes food companys do sponsor research etc in a vet collage surely that should come as no surprise either....who else would be very intreasted in animal foods and willing to spend money?
sigh rant over...
Dried food can affect a minority of cats and cause kidney problems but its not the only factor involved neutered toms an inadequate intake of water and other things are involved to
...the vast majority of cats on dry food do very well
...and it is better for their teeth and easier to measure out and judge intake for each cat as well as being cheaper than wet food.
My own cat's have all been on dry food...
natural might be better but im an average pet owner...i want something that works,keeps the cats healthy,is convenient and wont break the bank...if they have the unlikely problem of kidney problems then il deal with that when we get there...
We did a lot of nutrition here in collage already and have never had a guest lecturer or representative of a food company speak to us so far....
In fact our lecturer took great pleasure in telling us that all sorts of crap goes into dog food in particular...they have different standards of ingredients and the laws around pet foods are fairly lax compared to humans its odd to find ones that even use real meat instead of derivatives....
He also said that there were plenty of dogs thriving on Lidl and tesco brand foods....and if they are healthy and happy then why change?
Its only when there are problems that he justified changing brands to a higher and therefore usually more expensive quality...
Yes practices do stock expensive food like RC and to be honest although the foods are more tailored to specific breeds and problems they are not all that different to standard foods... ingedient wise they may use more high quality sources but all foods have to fit a certain minimum standard anyway....some are more suited to specific problems than a plain brand though...
Practices do sell and occasionally advise the specificly designed foods...some more than others it depends on the vet involved and what intreast they have in nutrion as well
for one thing its generaly safer to advise a premium food like RC
its known to be relatively good standard and isnt known for causing issues...and if there are problems with that food then they will look into other options bt its easier to go with a safe one first..
...plus a vet practice is a business it makes sense to advise the food you sell in store??why does that surprise people?
Its also appaently not a good idea to advise a BARF diet to every client....
not everyone will follow it well enough to ensure the dog gets enough vitamins and minerals and it can take up a lot of time to prepare compared versus simply serving of dry food
....plus if someone gets food poisioning or manages to poision their dog or otherwise endanger their health on the diet you advised its the vets reputation that will be slandered and is their is a slight chance of being sued because you advised the diet....hard for them to prove its your fault they didnt follow the diet to a tee but who wants to be sued?
Article like this are what is helping bring things to a point where no vet will risk advising a standard food without going through a long list of possible risks and complications that are unlikely to happen to the large percentage of pets
....fair enough to point out possible complications of a dry food in cats...it can be a future issue but how far is to far?do you start telling people that a small anount of dogs may choke while eating food too?
Why should the vet have to warn people but the food company get away with having them sort of issues in a species specific food and not mention it on the label?
It quickly becomes a much safer option for the vet to just advise a high quality expensive food that doesnt cause any problems in that department and that costs way more even though the cat may never had a bad reaction to another food...or simply decide to refer to a nutritionalist for all food issues..
and then we will get given out about for costing people more money...
and is it really what the vast majority of pet owners want?
would we get accused of scare mongering if vets stopped advising dry food to cats because of a possible issue in the minority?
Yes food companys do sponsor research etc in a vet collage surely that should come as no surprise either....who else would be very intreasted in animal foods and willing to spend money?
sigh rant over...
ChesnutsRoasting
Well-Known Member
The fact is when I take my dogs to the vets - which is rare, just for boosters etc, I never ask for dietary advice for my dogs nor do they ever offer it. What irritates is me is them insisting I feed my dog a particular brand of canned food after the dogs have had an op (spaying/castration). Why then? Its hard sell. They haven't got any other reason to sell the stuff to me at any other time. I dread to think what would happen if i presented a dog with a skin complaint or squitty doos etc. I would probably end up spending more on the feed than the treatment!
KarynK
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Yes food companys do sponsor research etc in a vet collage surely that should come as no surprise either....who else would be very intreasted in animal foods and willing to spend money?
sigh rant over...
[/ QUOTE ]
And here is the root of the whole problem, do they ever sponsor research into the benefits of a raw diet over kibble or other processed feeds? No and the colleges would not do so themselves as 1, it would not be funded and 2, they might loose the patronage of the companies.
That being the case no one can say that processed foods are or are not seriously affecting the health of our pets now and in the future, look at the effect processed food has on humans.
Plus all the time we are blissfully unaware of the Hidden ingredients in these feeds we may well be storing problems for future generations as well as this one. That is why articles such as this go some way towards addressing the imbalance. If just a few owners become more aware as a result and ask questions about food quality and potentially harmful additives then it has done some good towards at the very least honesty.
However there are now a growing number of holistic vets in practice that recommend a natural diet to their clients offering nutritional support and advice, they make no money from this diet since the client sources their own food like this one:
http://www.naturalfeeding.co.uk/catsnf.htm
Yes food companys do sponsor research etc in a vet collage surely that should come as no surprise either....who else would be very intreasted in animal foods and willing to spend money?
sigh rant over...
[/ QUOTE ]
And here is the root of the whole problem, do they ever sponsor research into the benefits of a raw diet over kibble or other processed feeds? No and the colleges would not do so themselves as 1, it would not be funded and 2, they might loose the patronage of the companies.
That being the case no one can say that processed foods are or are not seriously affecting the health of our pets now and in the future, look at the effect processed food has on humans.
Plus all the time we are blissfully unaware of the Hidden ingredients in these feeds we may well be storing problems for future generations as well as this one. That is why articles such as this go some way towards addressing the imbalance. If just a few owners become more aware as a result and ask questions about food quality and potentially harmful additives then it has done some good towards at the very least honesty.
However there are now a growing number of holistic vets in practice that recommend a natural diet to their clients offering nutritional support and advice, they make no money from this diet since the client sources their own food like this one:
http://www.naturalfeeding.co.uk/catsnf.htm
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
My old bitch used to eat total mulch, it looked more like horse feed and smelled awful, she lived to 14.
If I knew then what I know now......
I think like all foods, even ours, packages are smaller, prices are up, more bulking agents are used.
For people from my mother's generation, when things like Winalot came along, from cutting your own tripe, yeuch, and mincing your own meat, it must have seemed like a godsend, quick, clean and cheap.
Back then, I'd say the meat content was a lot higher too.
We now have the information to hand and it is up to us how to use it, I don't think there is a 'right' and 'wrong' way, as long as we are making informed decisions.
If I knew then what I know now......
I think like all foods, even ours, packages are smaller, prices are up, more bulking agents are used.
For people from my mother's generation, when things like Winalot came along, from cutting your own tripe, yeuch, and mincing your own meat, it must have seemed like a godsend, quick, clean and cheap.
Back then, I'd say the meat content was a lot higher too.
We now have the information to hand and it is up to us how to use it, I don't think there is a 'right' and 'wrong' way, as long as we are making informed decisions.