Dairy farmers! Which milk?

Mo-Jo

Mo-Jo

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I thought there might be someone here who knows what it's like to be a dairy farmer.

Which milk/dairy brand gives the best deal for the farmers and the cows? Is organic better?
 
I used to work for a big UK (well global) dairy company.

Depends what you mean by the best deal. Pence per litre?

For the cows, the modern milking parlours are amazing, where they can milk themselves- yields increased etc. obviously cost wise this is phenomenal, especially for a good sized quality herd.

I don't think you can go wrong with a big dairy, at least you know the demand will always be there compared to a small one.
I would say the milk price is dictated far more by the supermarkets than anything, protesting outside the dairy doesn't really achieve anything IMO
 
Mo-Jo said:
I thought there might be someone here who knows what it's like to be a dairy farmer.

Which milk/dairy brand gives the best deal for the farmers and the cows? Is organic better?
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Non which is why most local family dairy farms are selling up!
 
That's interesting about the big dairy. I don't plan on doing any protesting! Just think it's wrong how the supermarkets try to drive the pence per litre below cost price. Do the farmers get more when it's an independent brand, like Yeo Valley?
 
Original Gold Top is run by a farmer cooperative so they make sure they bargain for a good price. This is why supermarkets don't give it much shelf space or larger bottles - they wouldn't want the public buying too much of it ;) It's also got higher components than other milk - 1% higher butterfat and protein to start with, which isn't skimmed off so they can sell you skim milk at the same price, AND cream :rolleyes:
 
My Dad is a dairy farmer and we sell our milk to Arla. They offer pretty much the highest pence per litre (without selling to special brands or adding value through some kind of niche market) and they were one of the first companies to increase the money they pay to farmers during/after the protests last year.

As far as I know, Arla supply Asda with milk and cream and they produce Lurpak butter. I *think* they also supply McDonalds for their milkshakes.

As far as cow welfare goes, obviously the more money dairy farmers get the more they are able to spend on caring for their herd but there are certain standards set by Defra etc that we must meet regardless of our income. This is monitored via farm assurance plans and surprise farm inspections.

Also, I don't really see any advantage of organic milk. I would sooner be able to treat an animal if it is sick than not, and all medicines etc given to cows have withdrawal periods where the milk from the cow cannot enter the human food chain and is poured away.
 
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Megibo said:
Wonder what happens to all the calves at birth, they must be a huge by product of the dairy industry
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The male calves are removed from their mothers at a few days old, most are shot as they are useless to the dairy industry. The females are also taken away so that humans can have the milk, these calves then mature & are impregnated so the whole cycle can begin again, most dairy cows are slaughtered at 8 years old or less. Humans are the only species who seem to think they need milk into maturity, which we do not.
 
Organic does not mean you cannot treat an animal when sick. It means you cannot routinely put say, antibiotics in every animal's feed 'just in case'.

It also ensures there is a minimum of 60% forage in their diet, and that they spend a minimum amount of time at grass, ensuring you're not buying from a zero grazed herd.

Female calves become dairy cows, beef X calves will go on to be reared for beef. The majority of holstein (black and white) bull calves are now reared for 'bull beef' to 12 months. Jersey bulls are still mainly shot at birth. My business is rearing them on grass to 30 months to become beef. There's also rose and ruby veal available where they are slaughtered earlier, but at least not shot at birth.
 
merlinsquest said:
Humans are the only species who seem to think they need milk into maturity, which we do not.
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I think only silly people would think they 'need' milk into maturity any more than we 'need' steaks, or apples, or bread. It's just something we do eat, because it's delicious, highly versatile and one of the most nutritious foods about. Most species drink milk if they can get it...including cows!
 
Megibo
The calves are either reared as replacements for the herd or for meat.
I have worked in the industry for many years on many, many different farms, quite alot of whom have sold up :-( Its definitely not an easy way to make a living, and inevitably cows welfare is compromised by low prices, i know it is, as i have to deal with the consequences :'(
If in doubt buy from Waitrose or M&S who both give their farmers a better deal (won't go as far as to say good!) And both have their own, very strict, welfare standards.
 
Merlinsquest
VERY few, if any, are shot at birth (even Jersey bulls trend to be reared now) as they are worth serious income to the unit!
There are definitely benefits to organic milk for the cow & possibly the consumer (tho not entirely convinced on that one!)
And it is definitely kinder to the environment :-)
 
merlinsquest said:
The male calves are removed from their mothers at a few days old, most are shot as they are useless to the dairy industry. The females are also taken away so that humans can have the milk, these calves then mature & are impregnated so the whole cycle can begin again, most dairy cows are slaughtered at 8 years old or less. Humans are the only species who seem to think they need milk into maturity, which we do not.
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Many of us drink it because we NEED it's Calcium - I try to drink a litre a day to help reduce the risk of osteoporosis as I am in my 60's. I've always been a great milk drinker, have only cracked one rib despite some spectacular falls off my horses, I have all my own teeth that have not required a filling since I was 14 years old.

Milk is a great food and I will continue to drink it daily.

Here in NZ milk and other dairy products are high in price yet there are dairy companies who manage to regularly sell their milk at prices way lower than others. Our dairy farmers are paid very well for there long and unsociable hours. Some farmers are now only milking once a day - which I think is horrible for the cow because I would hazard a guess the money they are getting on a lower yield is still good.

xloopylozzax Please tell me more!
Quote
"For the cows, the modern milking parlours are amazing, where they can milk themselves- yields increased etc. obviously cost wise this is phenomenal, especially for a good sized quality herd.

As for the calves the females are kept/sold and raised to be the future herd, the males are sold as 'Bobby' calves at a few days old and raised for beef of varying quality. The jerseys and Guernseys generally get killed and their skins used for leather goods. It is always sad to see them in their pen at the end of the farm driveways waiting to be picked up.
 
Arla make cravendale, the McDonald shake and sundae mixes, anchor, lurpack (in Denmark anyway) and 80% of the cottage cheese market in the uk to name a few. After taking milk link over they have cheese sites, aswell as producing cream, fermented products and custards. Not to mention the UHT and fresh milk grades.

The protein levels in milk is dependant on the cattles diet, they only control the fat and make sure the fpd is above legal limit. The fat level changes this time of year because they have gone out on grass. And the fat composition is different in summer and winter milk (long vs short chain triglycerides)

I'm a geek :o
 
Ahem, protein and fat levels are also down to breed. Whereas holsteins will average 4%, jerseys ave. 5.5% with correspondingly higher protein, too. You can get 7% fat holsteins, but as a breed, Jerseys are markedly higher.
 
We don't shoot our bull calves at birth, most are here till 1-2 years then get sold as store cattle.
I believe sainsburys give quite a good deal they have strict rules and requirements for cow welfare/ use of medication etc, unfortunately they don't pick up near us.
 
merlinsquest said:
The male calves are removed from their mothers at a few days old, most are shot as they are useless to the dairy industry. The females are also taken away so that humans can have the milk, these calves then mature & are impregnated so the whole cycle can begin again, most dairy cows are slaughtered at 8 years old or less. Humans are the only species who seem to think they need milk into maturity, which we do not.
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Excuse me but this is not a fair portrayal....most bull calves are NOT shot ( I cannot think of a single farmer in my area that does so) and as for being completely seperated from the mother after a couple of days is also NOT true, yes the mother cow is milked but never so that there is not enough for the calf (as they are returned to their calf after milking) and if there isn't enough milk for calf a substitute will be provided.

...furthermore the cows are not slaughtered at '8 years old or less' unless they are unhealthy and suffering. Plus 10-12 years is the average lifespan of a cow.

I just don't think your quote is very fair and paints dairy farmers in a very negative light merlinsquest. We farmers do our best to care for our livestock.
 
xloopylozzax said:
Arla make cravendale, the McDonald shake and sundae mixes, anchor, lurpack (in Denmark anyway) and 80% of the cottage cheese market in the uk to name a few. After taking milk link over they have cheese sites, aswell as producing cream, fermented products and custards. Not to mention the UHT and fresh milk grades.

The protein levels in milk is dependant on the cattles diet, they only control the fat and make sure the fpd is above legal limit. The fat level changes this time of year because they have gone out on grass. And the fat composition is different in summer and winter milk (long vs short chain triglycerides)

I'm a geek :o
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All Anchor products are made in New Zealand by Fonterra :)
 
Tnavas said:
Some farmers are now only milking once a day - which I think is horrible for the cow
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Not necessarily - demand is part of what determines yield (obviously a poorly bred cow will not have the potential to yield much no matter how often you milk or feed her). More milkings = more produced. Less milkings = less produced, leaving more energy for the cow to put into her own body, so she may last longer and be in general better shape. In NZ I gather cows sometimes have to walk a long way to a from grass - once a day milking will therefore save the energy required for that, too.
 
LittleRocketRider said:
as for being completely seperated from the mother after a couple of days is also NOT true, yes the mother cow is milked but never so that there is not enough for the calf (as they are returned to their calf after milking) and if there isn't enough milk for calf a substitute will be provided.
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Sorry, but I don't think this is a fair portrayal. I only know of one, very smallscale, farmer who allows cows to keep calves - the sheer logistics of keeping cows and calves together makes it absolutely impossible!
 
LittleRocketRider said:
Excuse me but this is not a fair portrayal....most bull calves are NOT shot ( I cannot think of a single farmer in my area that does so) and as for being completely seperated from the mother after a couple of days is also NOT true, yes the mother cow is milked but never so that there is not enough for the calf (as they are returned to their calf after milking) and if there isn't enough milk for calf a substitute will be provided.

...furthermore the cows are not slaughtered at '8 years old or less' unless they are unhealthy and suffering. Plus 10-12 years is the average lifespan of a cow.

I just don't think your quote is very fair and paints dairy farmers in a very negative light merlinsquest. We farmers do our best to care for our livestock.
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LittleRocketRider I am sure that you do your best to care for your livestock but unfortunately many farmers do not, with dubious practices such as crated calves, farrowing pens for pigs who cannot turn round, battery hens etc etc. If you are managing to keep the calves with their mothers then I applaud you & wish that every farmer followed your example. Until that becomes an industry standard then I will remain vegan.
 
Tbf I think the strains of being a dairy cow are huge and think being pts before they get horrendously lame due to strain on their back/hips due to their huge udders is only a good thing. One farm I've been to in Wales had a dead cow there each time I went, one time it was waiting fir the knacker lorry in the field still desperately trying to stand :(

This is an interesting post on uses for dairy calves

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=611633&highlight=Veal
 
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