Dairy farmers! Which milk?

Tnavas said:
Many of us drink it because we NEED it's Calcium - I try to drink a litre a day to help reduce the risk of osteoporosis as I am in my 60's. I've always been a great milk drinker, have only cracked one rib despite some spectacular falls off my horses, I have all my own teeth that have not required a filling since I was 14 years old.

Milk is a great food and I will continue to drink it daily.

Here in NZ milk and other dairy products are high in price yet there are dairy companies who manage to regularly sell their milk at prices way lower than others. Our dairy farmers are paid very well for there long and unsociable hours. Some farmers are now only milking once a day - which I think is horrible for the cow because I would hazard a guess the money they are getting on a lower yield is still good.

xloopylozzax Please tell me more!
Quote
"For the cows, the modern milking parlours are amazing, where they can milk themselves- yields increased etc. obviously cost wise this is phenomenal, especially for a good sized quality herd.

As for the calves the females are kept/sold and raised to be the future herd, the males are sold as 'Bobby' calves at a few days old and raised for beef of varying quality. The jerseys and Guernseys generally get killed and their skins used for leather goods. It is always sad to see them in their pen at the end of the farm driveways waiting to be picked up.
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But you don't need to drink milk as your source of calcium, it is also in lots of other foods such as green leafy veg, turnips, almonds etc etc. I would certainly not be drinking 1 litre of milk per day, dairy products are very high in saturated fat so drinking/eating large quantities could increase your chances of heart disease. By drinking 1 litre per day you are perpetuating the "sad" sight of the calves in the pens waiting to be collected.
 
The dairy industry has got itself into a stupid situation. Holstein cows are short lived, bad on their legs and though high yielding the milk is expensive to produce. Their bull calves have a limited value, most are shot at birth.
Because milk is so expensive to produce by farmers who have gone down the Holstein route and ridiculous amounts of technology, in milking parlors, supermarkets won't pay so many give up.
 
merlinsquest said:
But you don't need to drink milk as your source of calcium, it is also in lots of other foods such as green leafy veg, turnips, almonds etc etc. I would certainly not be drinking 1 litre of milk per day, dairy products are very high in saturated fat so drinking/eating large quantities could increase your chances of heart disease. By drinking 1 litre per day you are perpetuating the "sad" sight of the calves in the pens waiting to be collected.
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Ditto this. Where on earth do people think cows get calcium for their milk from,green leafy stuff!!

I've gone dairy free for my skin before, and the annoying thing was people thinking my bones would crumble :rolleyes:
 
LittleRocketRider said:
Excuse me but this is not a fair portrayal....most bull calves are NOT shot ( I cannot think of a single farmer in my area that does so) and as for being completely seperated from the mother after a couple of days is also NOT true, yes the mother cow is milked but never so that there is not enough for the calf (as they are returned to their calf after milking) and if there isn't enough milk for calf a substitute will be provided.

...furthermore the cows are not slaughtered at '8 years old or less' unless they are unhealthy and suffering. Plus 10-12 years is the average lifespan of a cow.

I just don't think your quote is very fair and paints dairy farmers in a very negative light merlinsquest. We farmers do our best to care for our livestock.
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The calves are rarely fed from their mothers only being allowed to drink from them for around 24 hours - to get the colostrum - after that they are barned together and fed milk from a calf feeder - or bucket depending on numbers. Only those born to a small herd or privately owned have the luxury of feeding from mum for any length of time.

The reason for having a calf is to go back into full milk production as early as possible.

Danceswithcows - yes some places the cows walk for quite a distance to get to the milking shed - a lovely sight to see as they are amazing at knowing the time. My friends house overlooks some of the paddocks and I love watching them leave the paddock in the correct order - boss lady first then follow on in line, some waiting for other cows to pass them in the paddock before taking their allotted space in the order.

In NZ we are just about to go into the dry couple of months where the majority of farms dry off their herds and wait for the calves to be born. June is when the big 'Field Days' at Mystery Creek is held and is the place NZ farmers congregate each year for a week to see and buy all the new implements available. It's held near me and is a great place to go. Late June and early July all the calves arrive, we see the herds in paddocks being kept on reduced feed to reduce the weight of the calf so that calving is safe and easy for them. Often stop to see a calf born and sometimes get to see the farmer collect the cow from the paddock, calf in the back of the ute and mum trotting along behind. I must admit I do feel sad for the mums to be separated from their babies after just a couple of days.
 
merlinsquest said:
But you don't need to drink milk as your source of calcium, it is also in lots of other foods such as green leafy veg, turnips, almonds etc etc. I would certainly not be drinking 1 litre of milk per day, dairy products are very high in saturated fat so drinking/eating large quantities could increase your chances of heart disease. By drinking 1 litre per day you are perpetuating the "sad" sight of the calves in the pens waiting to be collected.
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Milk comes in varying levels of reduced fat - so that is not an argument - to get the calcium I need at my age I would have to eat a massive amount of green food - my sister is vegetarian and has to supplement her calcium with tablets.

AS I pointed out - I have only had one cracked rib and have all my teeth at 61! My sister on the other hand who has never drunk milk, is two years younger than me and already lost all her teeth!

I will keep on drinking milk.
 
xloopylozzax said:
I assure you anchor butter is made in the uk. From uk milk (I've loaded the cream export tankers from my old site sending it to westbury)

Lurpack is made in Denmark and imported.
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I live down the road from one of the biggest Anchor factories where much of the cheese is made, another is about 15kms away - 'Anchor' is a New Zealand company - the Anchor being the logo for the company - the butter made from free range grass fed cows, no grain or additives given to the cows - couldn't get better butter!

http://www.anchorbutter.com/
 
This is the automatic system I have heard about at a local agricultural college.
http://www.lely.com/en/milking/robotic-milkingsystem/astronaut-a4
Or something similar anyway

The cattle are electronically tagged and bring themselves in when they get the urge to be milked (apparently its almost like the need to urinate) and can go as many times as they need to. Automatic robots wash the teats, take off the first milk etc Can also be programmed to tip milk from cows with mastitis or whatever (high somatic cell counts) or if they are being medicated. They also get fed a ration there so you know the cow is getting that as well, which is why they come back frequently obviously!

The calcium level is increased in skimmed milk (without getting into dairy chemisty) but you lose out on the fat soluble vitamins.

There must be 2 anchors, really confusing :S
 
xloopylozzax said:
This is the automatic system I have heard about at a local agricultural college.
http://www.lely.com/en/milking/robotic-milkingsystem/astronaut-a4
Or something similar anyway

The cattle are electronically tagged and bring themselves in when they get the urge to be milked (apparently its almost like the need to urinate) and can go as many times as they need to. Automatic robots wash the teats, take off the first milk etc Can also be programmed to tip milk from cows with mastitis or whatever (high somatic cell counts) or if they are being medicated. They also get fed a ration there so you know the cow is getting that as well, which is why they come back frequently obviously!

The calcium level is increased in skimmed milk (without getting into dairy chemisty) but you lose out on the fat soluble vitamins.

There must be 2 anchors, really confusing :S
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Thats an awesome system - have emailed the link to my dairy farming friend.

I remember when I lived in UK that Anchor Butter came from NZ - maybe they now have a factory there producing Anchor butter - who knows - the NZ butter is produced from free range cows on a totally grass diet so contains no hormones. another link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchor_(brand)

I've sent Anchor UK an email and hopefully they will be able to clarify. It could be that the butter is repackaged or packaged here with UK label. I would have been surprised that UK could produce enough butter fat to make the butter and also sell as cream.
 
Buy from your local milkman, or local shops who source locally.

This thread has upset me. We have a Holstein herd, they dont have a short life span, poor health or a long list of requirements, they are looked after very well with not much more effort than any other dairy breed. Making the transition from freisians to Holstein allowed us to carry on whilst making something.

Bull calves would not be a biproduct of the industry but a successful branch if there weren't deep seated prejudice from the public.

Farmers must just all be complete ********s. Makes me wonder why we even carry on when everyone seems against us. Yey for Muller, can't wait until this country is a heap full of Barratt homes relying on imports...
 
The site I was working at produces half a BILLION litres of fresh milk a year. Majority is semi-skimmed (avg 1.52% fat, coming in at 4% avg) so you can work out the sheer volume of cream from that one site alone. That's not including the tonnes of skim for cottage cheese production and all your other products (filtered and flavoured milks etc).

Butter is made from whipping cream at 40% fat (my fingers are itching to do a pearsons square :o)

They are commissioning a new site as we speak (anyone on here near Aylesbury?) that will produce a billion litres of fresh milk annually and will no doubt expand to do other products.

I have a lot of respect for the farmers, and agree hands down they should be paid more, as do the dairy companies. The squeeze comes when you can buy 4 pints for a quid, and the supermarkets wont budge on it.

China are importing UK milk products because their industry is *********. Melamine scandal anyone, 2 people were killed because of it, after several children died?! I trust our farmers, and our companies to produce a safe product.
 
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RunToEarth said:
Buy from your local milkman, or local shops who source locally.

This thread has upset me. We have a Holstein herd, they dont have a short life span, poor health or a long list of requirements, they are looked after very well with not much more effort than any other dairy breed. Making the transition from freisians to Holstein allowed us to carry on whilst making something.

Bull calves would not be a biproduct of the industry but a successful branch if there weren't deep seated prejudice from the public.

Farmers must just all be complete ********s. Makes me wonder why we even carry on when everyone seems against us. Yey for Muller, can't wait until this country is a heap full of Barratt homes relying on imports...
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Don't stress - what happens to the bull calves is sadly but just part of dairy farming - Freisians and Holsteins don't make the best beef cattle because they are bred as milkers but at least some get that chance. Our local Pony Club buys 10 weanlings every year and as rising 2yr olds they generally head off to market. They get a pretty good carefree life for almost 2 years.

One of my friends as a beautiful Guernsey cow which has a calf each year and fosters three others as well.
 
the original post had to do with making a profit and the best milk contracts.
a few people have said that there is no money to be made in milk.
we are in the process of changing buyers and even with our new contract which we will be paid for fat and protein we will be making 8p a litre profit,
when milk price was bad we was stillmaking 4/5p a litre.

so if the system is run efficiently and the costs are looked at reguraly there is good money to be made from selling milk.


ive sold 180 bull calves with in 2 months this year with out any problem at all at 7 days old to be reared for beef. £50 each, why shoot them when they are worth something?

i dont leave calves on their mothers for days and days, they get pulled of the mothers as soon as they drop,
why???
because i can make sure that they have 5 litres of good quality colostrum with in the first hour of their lives. mortality rate 4%.

holestein cows will only on average be on the farm for 3/4 lactations if they are lucky, so high cull rates on intensive systems. i have cows that came over from ireland back in 2002 and they are still milking today.

once again the type of system that is run on the farm determines the profit that can be made
 
xloopylozzax said:
The site I was working at produces half a BILLION litres of fresh milk a year. Majority is semi-skimmed (avg 1.52% fat, coming in at 4% avg) so you can work out the sheer volume of cream from that one site alone. That's not including the tonnes of skim for cottage cheese production and all your other products (filtered and flavoured milks etc).

Butter is made from whipping cream at 40% fat (my fingers are itching to do a pearsons square :o)

They are commissioning a new site as we speak (anyone on here near Aylesbury?) that will produce a billion litres of fresh milk annually and will no doubt expand to do other products.
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I've had children live with me that only know that milk comes from a bottle and butter from a wrapper so I usually give them a bottle of cream and the mixer and a pinch or two of salt and tell them to keep whisking - their faces are a picture when the butter forms in front of their eyes.

I actually come from Amersham which is not far from Aylesbury - I used to deliver milk for a small dairy company based in Great Missenden.
 
Errr so can anyone tell us where we should buy our milk from to ensure the farmers are getting the best deal?
So far there have been a few contradictory answers. I understood that in this case the supermarkets actually pay slightly more and it's the massive dairy's thats supply corner shops etc that pay the farmers less? That's what a farmer said on the radio during the protests last year anyway.
 
I have just taken up the services of our local dairy for having milk delivered in proper clinky glass bottles :D All their milk comes from local farms, and it costs 65p a pint delivered.
 
If we ate more veal in the UK,even less male calves would be wasted.
My neighbour is a beef farmer, and he leaves the calves on his cows for months, until they are weaned, really lovely sight to see.
My own family packed up dairy years ago due to the losses they were unable to sustain.
I live fairly near the new Arla super dairy, and feel it is a very sad day for farms that are family businesses.
http://www.arlafoods.co.uk/aylesbury/
 
xloopylozzax said:
They are commissioning a new site as we speak (anyone on here near Aylesbury?) that will produce a billion litres of fresh milk annually and will no doubt expand to do other products.
.
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I don't live a million miles from Aylesbury but my YFC club is very much that neck of the woods so I drive past the site pretty much twice a week when I'm home from uni - it is absolutely HUGE. A college we have 750 (off the top of my head) Holstein-Friesian cows, that produce milk sold to Sainsburys via DairyCrest. The milking cows are in a barn and the dry cows are out. Both seem lots always seem very happy when I see them. Google Kemble Farms Ltd or RAC dairy unit if your interested :)

I think your definitely best buying from your local milkman, at home we have 2 pints delivered each morning for 60p per pint and they come from the cows at the other end of the village :)
 
spottyappy why??

there will be an increased demand for milk, so the family businesses have a sustainable industry to sell in to and support their own familys?

Milk quotas are being phased out by 2015, that will be a difficult time for many I imagine.

The problem is the UK is very outdated compared to the rest of Europe. Everyone will agree our industry needs to change

The new site is huge, its "camouflaged" and looks like lego to me! :o
 
When they get rid of quotas a d let the dairy farmer choose, yen everyone will be much better off , that is why more and more sugar beet farmers sold their contracts, and why dairy farmers are selling up, it costs more to produce than sell, due to the quota system, if we don't buck our ideas up, all to soon our milk will come fom abroad :(
 
xloopylozzax said:
The new site is huge, its "camouflaged" and looks like lego to me! :o
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No it isn't its a hideous great eyesore in an AONB it was forced through via backhanders like HS2, it has also collapsed the canals and ruined the barge holiday trade for the local company...

You work for a company and probably believe their patter but please don't expect me to believe their self serving propaganda.
 
I'd love to buy my milk from the milk man but sadly there's not one around here. We did used to get it from him, but he retired and no-one took over.
 
I actually don't work for them any more...
I am interested in the industry though, it's diverse and evidently affects more than people realise
 
Our dairy farmers get really well paid - this is the link to the biggest of the companies that buys and produces milk products. Their farmers produce around 22 Billion litres of milk a year - sorry can't convert to pints or gallons.

http://www.fonterra.com/nz/en

There are also some smaller companies too that are often the ones that supply milk to dairy's (corner shop) at a far more competitive amount - eg 2 x 2litre for $5 compared to nearly $3 a litre from some of the bigger brands.
 
The "dairy" in near Aylesbury is a processing plant not a "milking dairy" . It will not be processing milk only from the UK, it is importing most of its milk from Europe, but in the supermarkets products will say "produced in the UK" thus duping the consumer... And shafting the British dairy farmer...
 
merlinsquest said:
dairy products are very high in saturated fat so drinking/eating large quantities could increase your chances of heart disease.
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Very out of date thinking - the link between diet and heart disease is fast being disproved, and natural fats are becoming known as good for you. I've seen the results myself, the more fat I eat (usually from meat and dairy) the slimmer, fitter and healthier I get.
 
jockmaster said:
The "dairy" in near Aylesbury is a processing plant not a "milking dairy" . It will not be processing milk only from the UK, it is importing most of its milk from Europe, but in the supermarkets products will say "produced in the UK" thus duping the consumer... And shafting the British dairy farmer...
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I completely agree, and will add that it really puts any negotiating space in the bin next time things get tough.

Figures from 2012 have shown that 2012 was THE single toughest year for dairy farmers in living memory. The average conventional Holstein Friesian herd saw its margin over purchased feed (MOPF) fall by £17,775 in the 12 months to March 2013. Add to that a March of absolutely horrific weather where many (us included) had to resort to tipping milk into nearly full slurry pits because we physically couldn't get anything off of the farm. Not only was it incredibly frustrating but times like that highlight just how difficult the industry is, after all you still have to get up at 5am to milk them, whether you are getting paid for it or tipping it away.

FWI reported this week that prices are set to rise through 2013 "Direct suppliers to Yew Tree Dairy in Woodcocks, Skelmersdale, Lancashire, will get a 1.25p/litre increase to 31.75p/litre. Paynes Dairies' direct suppliers will also receive a 1.25p/litre increase."

We are getting around 32ppl but starting to worry about silage time, as most horsey people will understand grass is not quite what it should be because Spring didn't really happen.

The "factory farms" in this country have huge implications on the more traditional family based units. For one they torment on grain demand and push feed prices up. Recent applications for the Nocton Dairy in Lincolnshire also encouraged a large amount of one opinion lobby groups opposing sites, which in turn have led to an increased amount of opposition and general scare mongering for much smaller units, such as replacement pig units.

Pale rider - your comments regarding farming really anger me. It is evident you would really like the entire industry to fold in on itself, no doubt because of your ignorance for the industry, but nevertheless if you are an indicator for what the general public think then it really is a very tough time we have ahead. Out of interest what would you suggest we do with agricultural britain under your rule?
 
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