Dallas ponies part IV

[Glitter's fun]

But it isn't. My friend is a retired vet who has done some work for knackeries and abbatoirs. She has pointed out that PTS is neither straightforward nor simple. The cliffnotes are that doing so in a legal and humane (ish) way is quite expensive and for a bunch of wild horses, complicated. How are you going to PTS 36 wild horses? They are not going to stand in the field for some guy with a bolt gun or lethal injection. You'll either have to hire a marksman, a brave vet, or capture them and transport them to a legal horse slaugherhouse, and I'm told they only exist in the south of England. That's a lot of people you have to pay to make that happen. Then you have the disposal costs, which are considerable for animals that cannot legally go into the food chain. The owner is trying to make money off these animals. There is zero chance of him paying a dime of that. And despite his capacious irresponsibility, they are still his horses. You can't say, "Well, James, do you mind paying a good few grand to euthanize all your horses?"

The other option is to sell them to the types of dealers who will falsify documentation so they can cross the Channel or go to the abbatoirs in the south, and that's kind of where we are anyway. If dealers are sketchy enough to do that, they are sketchy enough to try to pass off the better-looking ones as riding horses and get more than meat money for them.

It's a mess.

Unless the law has changed recently, a horse may not be shot in a field of other horses by a marksman because you are not allowed to let them see other horses being shot.
"Horses killed for non-human consumption must be killed in a separate room or a bay which is kept specifically for that purpose. Horses must also not be killed: in sight of another horse; or in a room where there are remains of another horse or other animal."

You would have to catch and transport them to England for slaughter.
"There are five abattoirs in England and Wales licensed for the slaughter of horses (solipeds). Food Standards Scotland say there are none in Scotland. There were a total of 12,431 horses slaughtered at abattoirs in Great Britain over the past 3 years. This excludes animals being euthanized by vets in situ after an accident or illness."

Quotes are from here CCTV in equine slaughterhouses - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk)

 

[Glitter's fun]

I'm not sure the media will make a difference to the ponies, although they would certainly get a good story out of it. The ponies are the legal property of someone who is a proven liar & media attention would give him further incentive to disguise the identities of his ponies.

 

[Dave's Mam]

I'm not sure about Highlands, but I know that Exmoors used for Conservation Grazing need to be registered.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

There are ways they could be herded in in small numbers at a time and funnelled through to be PTS in separate areas No dissimilar to cattle and in a more fluid way than an abattoir, not pretty not without stress and not ideal but at the end of the day they are being shipped away and sold then sold again and again. What is more horrific? An unpleasant situation but quick death or what we are already seeing happening? Prolonged stress, starvations, beatings, cruel handling and more. That’s another one surfaced, lame, feral and being sold for 1800 quid. Death IMO is not a worse thing for animals like this.

 

[maya2008]

I think the younger ones could probably be tamed - perhaps not all, but plenty of small Welsh ponies come in for a ridden life well beyond 3/4 years old. Anything in its late teens would be kinder pts. Happy, then not. No welfare issue there. The alternative is happy, then terrified, starved to make them more compliant, possibly beaten depending on transient owners, shipped from place to place, then eventually pts at an abattoir because after all that, either they were not able to be tamed or were lame once attempted to work. What use financially to anyone is an older gelding, or even an older mare beyond the age at which she can breed? Someone has to see value in the horse in order to pay for its upkeep. Sad but true. The only other alternative is a charity of some kind.

 

[Poingsettia]

Is this one of them?

 

[Caol Ila]

I think though James has already sold all the remaining horses to BL, so the question is what BL does with them, no longer anything to do with James.

Aye. My post was in response to someone asking what a desirable outcome would be. It was very theoretical!

There are ways they could be herded in in small numbers at a time and funnelled through to be PTS in separate areas No dissimilar to cattle and in a more fluid way than an abattoir, not pretty not without stress and not ideal but at the end of the day they are being shipped away and sold then sold again and again. What is more horrific? An unpleasant situation but quick death or what we are already seeing happening? Prolonged stress, starvations, beatings, cruel handling and more. That’s another one surfaced, lame, feral and being sold for 1800 quid. Death IMO is not a worse thing for animals like this.

I hear you, but the trouble is that’s expensive. You have to pay the knackermen, pay for disposal, etc. James sure isn’t going to do that. WHW won’t. Who will?

I think the younger ones could probably be tamed - perhaps not all, but plenty of small Welsh ponies come in for a ridden life well beyond 3/4 years old. Anything in its late teens would be kinder pts. Happy, then not. No welfare issue there. The alternative is happy, then terrified, starved to make them more compliant, possibly beaten depending on transient owners, shipped from place to place, then eventually pts at an abattoir because after all that, either they were not able to be tamed or were lame once attempted to work. What use financially to anyone is an older gelding, or even an older mare beyond the age at which she can breed? Someone has to see value in the horse in order to pay for its upkeep. Sad but true. The only other alternative is a charity of some kind.

The youngest are 10.

All we can do is find the ones at dealers and hope they get a soft landing. We’ve managed to engineer a couple, though one was that gelding in a horrible state at the auction. At least we found him.

 

[Caol Ila]

Is this one of them?

Yup.

 

[DirectorFury]

Is this one of them?

EIGHTEEN HUNDRED POUNDS?! For a lame, feral, largely unhandled, pony with no actual recorded breeding?! My mind is blown.

 

[Caol Ila]

Fin’s half sister went for 3700. Crazy. I paid 4K for him, and I could actually ride him.

 

[palo1]

Unless the law has changed recently, a horse may not be shot in a field of other horses by a marksman because you are not allowed to let them see other horses being shot.
"Horses killed for non-human consumption must be killed in a separate room or a bay which is kept specifically for that purpose. Horses must also not be killed: in sight of another horse; or in a room where there are remains of another horse or other animal."

You would have to catch and transport them to England for slaughter.
"There are five abattoirs in England and Wales licensed for the slaughter of horses (solipeds). Food Standards Scotland say there are none in Scotland. There were a total of 12,431 horses slaughtered at abattoirs in Great Britain over the past 3 years. This excludes animals being euthanized by vets in situ after an accident or illness."

Quotes are from here CCTV in equine slaughterhouses - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk)

There are some exemptions to that rule (of not destorying a horse in sight of another) but they would be extremely unlikely to apply in this situation. In some ways that rule, whilst absolutely well intended and correct in most situations can result too in appalling distress to horses that are to be euthanised but are heavily pair bonded/herd bound/nursing mare and foal (I know, it is totally grim to think about). I guess at that point, decisions have to be made about the safest and 'least worst' outcomes. For example if the taking away of one horse is likely to result in desperation and injury on the part of another, both should be destroyed together but as quickly and consecutively as possible.

Many people who sell horses never consider the kind of end they may meet sadly, or in fact care. I guess as long as people don't have to deal with that directly they can put it out of their minds.

 

[stangs]

Thinking aloud here, but there are so many rich folk going into rewilding these days, I'm sure one of them could be convinced by the Dallas story that they could use some megafauna on their land?

 

[Caol Ila]

Thinking aloud here, but there are so many rich folk going into rewilding these days, I'm sure one of them could be convinced by the Dallas story that they could use some megafauna on their land?

That would be the dream solution. Just have to find a rich landowner who will make BL/James an offer they can’t refuse.

 

[twiggy2]

But it isn't. My friend is a retired vet who has done some work for knackeries and abbatoirs. She has pointed out that PTS is neither straightforward nor simple. The cliffnotes are that doing so in a legal and humane (ish) way is quite expensive and for a bunch of wild horses, complicated. How are you going to PTS 36 wild horses? They are not going to stand in the field for some guy with a bolt gun or lethal injection. You'll either have to hire a marksman, a brave vet, or capture them and transport them to a legal horse slaugherhouse, and I'm told they only exist in the south of England. That's a lot of people you have to pay to make that happen. Then you have the disposal costs, which are considerable for animals that cannot legally go into the food chain. The owner is trying to make money off these animals. There is zero chance of him paying a dime of that. And despite his capacious irresponsibility, they are still his horses. You can't say, "Well, James, do you mind paying a good few grand to euthanize all your horses?"

The other option is to sell them to the types of dealers who will falsify documentation so they can cross the Channel or go to the abbatoirs in the south, and that's kind of where we are anyway. If dealers are sketchy enough to do that, they are sketchy enough to try to pass off the better-looking ones as riding horses and get more than meat money for them.

It's a mess.

The vets managed to castrate the colts and stallions and sedation is needed for that so PTS would be possible if castration is surely?

Unless the law has changed recently, a horse may not be shot in a field of other horses by a marksman because you are not allowed to let them see other horses being shot.
"Horses killed for non-human consumption must be killed in a separate room or a bay which is kept specifically for that purpose. Horses must also not be killed: in sight of another horse; or in a room where there are remains of another horse or other animal."

You would have to catch and transport them to England for slaughter.
"There are five abattoirs in England and Wales licensed for the slaughter of horses (solipeds). Food Standards Scotland say there are none in Scotland. There were a total of 12,431 horses slaughtered at abattoirs in Great Britain over the past 3 years. This excludes animals being euthanized by vets in situ after an accident or illness."

Quotes are from here CCTV in equine slaughterhouses - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk)

they don't have to be killed for non human consumption though they don't need to enter any food chain, not sure how huntsman/ kennelman get away with shooting horses as they don't use a bay or room if that law applies to non food chain animals.

Thinking aloud here, but there are so many rich folk going into rewilding these days, I'm sure one of them could be convinced by the Dallas story that they could use some megafauna on their land?

Rewilding often includes tree planting so all grazing animals are fenced out but rewilding doesn't allow for putting horses or any livestock on the land as that would be grazing or farming the land not rewilding (whatever that really is?)

 

[Dave's Mam]

Rewilding often includes tree planting so all grazing animals are fenced out but rewilding doesn't allow for putting horses or any livestock on the land as that would be grazing or farming the land not rewilding (whatever that really is?)

Rewilding actually involves specific grazers, otherwise everything quickly becomes impenetrable scrub. At Knepp, they use Exmoor ponies & cattle to allow the wildflowers & natural grasses to have room to grow.

 

[Caol Ila]

The vets managed to castrate the colts and stallions and sedation is needed for that so PTS would be possible if castration is surely?




they don't have to be killed for non human consumption though they don't need to enter any food chain, not sure how huntsman/ kennelman get away with shooting horses as they don't use a bay or room if that law applies to non food chain animals.




Rewilding often includes tree planting so all grazing animals are fenced out but rewilding doesn't allow for putting horses or any livestock on the land as that would be grazing or farming the land not rewilding (whatever that really is?)

WHW ate the costs of the first round up, microchipping, castration, etc. They are running fast and far this time.

 

[Ratface]

Surely no one will pay £1800 for a smallish largely unhandled 11yr old mare who will likely take months+++ to get near?
I do hope the untruth-telling shyster will get his just deserts, and the pony will find an appropriate home and owner.

 

[stangs]

Rewilding often includes tree planting so all grazing animals are fenced out but rewilding doesn't allow for putting horses or any livestock on the land as that would be grazing or farming the land not rewilding (whatever that really is?)

No clue where you’ve got this information from.

Rewilding involves repairing and restoring ecosystems and, therefore, by definition, requires megafauna in most environments. Where wild counterparts are extinct (as in the case of horses), domestic, semi-feral, and feral grazing animals are used to imitate their grazing patterns and help in the regeneration of land and wildlife habitats. E.g., the aforementioned Exmoors at Knepp; Koniks at Wicken Fen; Dartmoors at The Lodge Nature Reserve. Cattle, sheep, and sometimes goats too, have all also been used for rewilding.