dangerous horse back again!! LONG rant but need advice

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polyphonic

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i dont know where to start. first of all i thought all of his dangerous and nasty behaviour had calmed down considerably or had stopped. Now im feeling like im back to the start with the horse i first bought. Over the last 10 days flints behaviour has quickly detiriated. He's starting to nip again, and be extremely bolshy, which i have been acting strongly on. I asked my friend to turn him out for me on sunday, only because i trust her with him and vice versa, he has never acted badly towards her. So leading him to the gate he started bucking on the spot ans reared 4 times with her. She called for help and YO came over and helped turn out. I went to bring him in on sunday and as i caught him got him through his gate he reared plunged left me on the floor and bogged off up the track to the stables. Riding wise he has been ok, a little over jealous but nothing a strong no and taking a check hasnt sorted out although he was nappy, keeping my weight forward for any rears i was ok, although he did put me on his neck after sitting about the 6th buck. So today i thought i would lunge him. So off i ask him to go out and he does, then from no where explodes on the end of the line, coming in at me and bucking/kicking. then he settled down again. so back to work we go. he then settled some more. Changed the rein and as i asked him to go out, he lunged AT me. rearing up and front legs flying at me. managed to get some sort of order, and then he just stood still and turned in on me so quickly. i tried to get to the side of him and yet again he actually came at me with his front feet, i shouted NO! to which point he span and charged up the school, pulling me with him. At this point i was near his back end and a double barrell came at me,unfortunaly for me (and yes it was my fault) my lunge rein had a handle on the end and i held on for a few seconds as he pulled me across the floor. after letting him go and managing to pick myself u, covered in sand i walked over to him and he was calm as anything like nothing had happened. I managed to get him to do some more work for a couple fo minutes before calling it a night. today was the first time he has scared me in 2 years. he was the horse the girl sold to me. what am i doing so wrong? where am i going wrong and why is he treating me like this. sounds silly but i put my heart into that horse so to get something back isnt too much to ask. if i dont curb it now he will become worse and worse. he currently oes out for about 5 hours, is excercised for 45mins - 1hour daily, which is always varied work and he is fed 1/4 scoop of calm and condition and 1/2 scoop hi-fi light twice daily. any ideas will be greatfully recieved! promise!!
 
Have you changed anything at all? Even the teeniest little thing?
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i have not changed anything at all im afraid. he does get silly sometimes but this was different, this was dangerous and when he came a me i purely believe he meant it. if that makes sense
 
Huni i was in the school with you for most of that tonight he was been extremley naightie exspecially towards u xx but i know recentley u have upped his feed and i really dnt think he needs it he is looking very well and the grass is coming through now they r all on ther toes i even seen tye throwing a wobbly in field tonight and thats not like him tim bogged of dwn field with me other day well dwn to ur field he reckons the grass is better in your field anyway! ! maybe next time u lunge him lunge him with that training aid i was using tonight make him think and work abit more little bugga ! dnt let him get any ideas for sunday when we go xc xx is rob having vet tomorrow is he cing flint ? cudnt remember if u said u was having vet or just thinking abwt it ow and for those that r reading its not to have him put dwn cuz he is crazy if thats what ur thinking xx
 
he's feed is just 1/4 of clam and condition and hi fi lite. since he bulked up its been reduced for about a month now. when you left the school toight he really was nasty, it wasnt flint just bein an arse, because i can say oi mr, sort it out get urself sorted but tonight he was just plain dangerous... maybe i should reduce his hours of grass time? he's got all that field to himself. ive got to find my records and find out if he needs the rig injection again
 
My first thought was spring grass
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My advice would be to handle him on the ground with a lunge line.

When riding, if he rears or naps, spin him on the spot and ride him away. Be very positive.

Other than that all the usual checks
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he has to have a rig injection twice a year. He hasnt hurt himself or anything that would suggest he had. when i bought him off the girl who had him she was terrified of him, with good reason, most people said the best thing for him was a bullet or to say it nicely PTS. there was just something completly different to his behaviour.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Huni i was in the school with you for most of that tonight he was been extremley naightie exspecially towards u xx but i know recentley u have upped his feed and i really dnt think he needs it he is looking very well and the grass is coming through now they r all on ther toes i even seen tye throwing a wobbly in field tonight and thats not like him tim bogged of dwn field with me other day well dwn to ur field he reckons the grass is better in your field anyway! ! maybe next time u lunge him lunge him with that training aid i was using tonight make him think and work abit more little bugga ! dnt let him get any ideas for sunday when we go xc xx is rob having vet tomorrow is he cing flint ? cudnt remember if u said u was having vet or just thinking abwt it ow and for those that r reading its not to have him put dwn cuz he is crazy if thats what ur thinking xx

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you please write words out fully? It makes it awfully hard to read what you've written when it's like that.

Thanks!
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Huni i was in the school with you for most of that tonight he was been extremley naightie exspecially towards u xx but i know recentley u have upped his feed and i really dnt think he needs it he is looking very well and the grass is coming through now they r all on ther toes i even seen tye throwing a wobbly in field tonight and thats not like him tim bogged of dwn field with me other day well dwn to ur field he reckons the grass is better in your field anyway! ! maybe next time u lunge him lunge him with that training aid i was using tonight make him think and work abit more little bugga ! dnt let him get any ideas for sunday when we go xc xx is rob having vet tomorrow is he cing flint ? cudnt remember if u said u was having vet or just thinking abwt it ow and for those that r reading its not to have him put dwn cuz he is crazy if thats what ur thinking xx

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you please write words out fully? It makes it awfully hard to read what you've written when it's like that.

Thanks!

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto, I had to read it 3 times for it to make sense!!

I really hope you get his behaviour sorted out soon, good luck xxx
 
There's no mares about that have come into season is there? My old horse Bailey got a bit like this when mares had been "tarting" about him. Nothing as bad as Flint, but it was worrying.

I had him tested to see if he was a rig, but he wasn't. He would even mount the mares....much to their delight! Bad ponios!
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Arrrr....just read this post after putting up my reply.

I did think it sounded a bit riggy.

Maybe it's time for a jab.
 
there are mares kept on the yard but none that he is in contact with directly. he is stabled at the end of the block and is turned out on his own well away from the mares. maybe im over reacting but when he came at me tonight it truly shocked me. i have not seen that behaviour for atleast 2 and a half years. i sound so silly ut i feel so let down by him !!
 
just caught up with this one, and before I had even got to the bit about him having an injection for riggy behaviour it was occurring to me that he being very much a spring stallion in his behaviour so I think this is definitely the first thing to look at..hopefully he will be back to his normal self soon.
 
hector is riggy and he has come at me in the field a few times when he is feeling exceptionally silly and i have got out quick as he looked very nasty, this is not his normal temprement, he is usually very sweet,

at the moment with the grass he is a nightmare, feeling so full of himself
 
Made me smile when you said you felt he'd 'let you down' Don't take it personal horses arent like that, he's just feeling important and taking the pee. He thinks he's a big tough stallion and you're a little mare that he can boss about, NOT!

First get the jab

Get yourself a good strong neckstrap if you havent already, some sticky bum jods and get bossy. If he behaved like this to another horse they'd either bite or kick him very b***** hard, so don't feel bad about getting tough.

For the time being pop a chifney in his mouth to turn him out and use a lunge line, dont forget to wear a hat. Leave a leather headcollar on him to make him easier to grab and good luck!
 
I was going to say the same thing, handle him in a chiffany - there amazing turn any rude rearing beast into a sweetie, and there cheap.

When you lunge him make sure you have side-reins or something else on to help with him just turning in or out, try to stay behind his shoulder so you are always driving him forward, but it is very hard when they start mucking about.

Be careful and keep your wits about you, whatever you do, maybe you should cut all his food out even if it is only a small scoop, until he remembers his manners. Don't envy you, try to keep smiling
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hope he gets over it soon.
 
First off, cut the groceries! If the grass is coming in he is getting way more "bounce per ounce" than he was a couple of weeks ago. Don't feed him just to need to burn it off by being more active - that doesn't even make sense for weight gain!

Secondly . . . "rig injection" . . .what's that? Technically we don't have that in my country. I say technically because there are people who medicate stallions/aggressive geldings with female hormones but the practice is frowned upon and illegal in the ring. Anyone care to explain?

It certainly does sound like spring! What sort of work did you do to get a handle on him before? You may just have to keep giving him "refresher courses" - I hate to say it but that's been my experience with many horses who are inclined to behave this way. They can't be "cured" because there's nothing wrong with them, they are just being themselves. What they can be is managed and trained so that they don't express the behaviours.

Good luck and wear a hard hat.
 
Well I disagree with the riggy and spring grass theory...my horse was the exact same when I first got him and he would have terrible lapses from time to time and resort back. A lot of it is discipline and knowing where they stand in the pecking order of things. I stopped riding my horse for 3 weeks and did nothing but ground work with him. I taught him to stand quietly, back up on voice command and walk on quietly beside me instead of being bolshy. I invested in a chiffney (on instructors advice) and this allowed me to keep hold of him in the bad moments so he did not learn he could get away from me. He was the same as you decribe on the lunge to so once my instructor had taken the edge of him (she is much stronger than me) I lunged him every day for 10 mins 3 times a day until he was a good boy and lunged nicely all the time. I would make sure you are lunging in a bridle with the lunge line going over his head and don't do anything in a head collar until you have more control. We then moved onto long reining and did the same until he was well behaved with this and respected all commands.
Every day of his boot camp I would not tolerate any naughtiness and made sure he always respected my space, would back up when asked and walk nicely. I did loads of exercises with him to build trust and friendship too.
Yes, perhaps it is a spring grass thing but ultimately the horse needs some training in ground manners (no offence) and may even be confused on who is boss. It changed my horse completely and once ridden again he was a saint. Yes, I occasionally have to remind him of his manners when they slip a bit (he is a cheeky thing) but he is now manageable and polite. I would consider it seriously or get some help from a instructor.
 
Reading that my first thought was 'rig!' Is he aggressive with other geldings or does he mount other mares? Ever thought of having him rig tested at the vets?
xxx
 
Ummm.... you may think this is an odd question but was it your certain time of the month, actually I don't need to know! But I have heard that stallions (and rigs I guess!) can get a bit funny round women when they have their period (although you would think it would be ovulation time that was the problem). With their excellent sense of smell it could have been that (sorry it that sounds gross....
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). I was also told it wasn't a good idea to wear strong perfume around them.

I am happy to be laughed at for that suggestion but it was something I had been told and have read (proabably an old myth)
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Fully appreciating how frightening this must be for you but have you considered having somebody more experienced/stronger handle him for a while. I had a horse like this (rig it turned out!) and tried to persevere to the point that dangerous was an underestimate. I admitted defeat and sold him ot a person known to work with difficult horses, she later admitted that the day to day handling was being done by her husband who was 6ft plus, strong and a very exp stallion man. It worked, he became manageable but was then operated on and as far as I know is a pretty' normal' horse now. They key was not to show 'weakness' and be consistent in the handling in order to make any hope of a rig operation worthwhile/possible.

I hope you can get through this, I feel a tiny pang of guilt that I gave up on my lovely horse - he was by Darco.
 
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