Dangerous horse habit's. What would you do?

YorksG said:
What is he like if you fasten the girth on the 'wrong' side? We used to do this with a TbxWelsh, who had issues from being badly handled. She hated you doing things from the left, but if you put the saddle on from the right hand side and fastened the girth up on the right, she was fine. Might be worth a try.
Click to expand...

Good point, I did try that and he was better - not sure if it was the element of suprise though. If he's better then I guess we can assume its a habit he's developed.
I'll try tomorrow and thanks for reminding me, I had clean forgetten about that.
 
I agree sounds like ulcers to me but if you thinks its just a fear based reaction you could try this.
Have you tried girthing him while standing in a set of stocks? With you on the outside of course!
If you don't want to risk that an open ended box pen can be so easily made with 4 fence posts for corners and 3 very sturdy posts placed horizontally at the height of his point of shoulder (like a starting box). Make the box comfortably wider than him but not so wide he can swing around.
Have the front post on a sliding bracket so it can be removed if needed. Don't be tempted to put more lengths of fence up as it just increases the risk of getting caught on something.
Practice walking him staight through the middle initially and feeding him while standing with the front bar up, then reversing him in and out as needed. Always work with yourself on the OUTSIDE of the posts.
Start with an elastic surcingle being girthed up. Move on to placing just the saddle on his back while in the pen getting fed.
Eventually try a real girth. Once he realises he can't hurt you or swing around he may stop trying. He cant go anywhere if he broncs either, but you can release the front bar if needed.

I've used this with starting our driving horses to get them used to standing straight in the shafts, or in the horsebox for travelling. Also worked on a nasty cow kicker!
 
angel7 said:
I agree sounds like ulcers to me but if you thinks its just a fear based reaction you could try this.
Have you tried girthing him while standing in a set of stocks? With you on the outside of course!
If you don't want to risk that an open ended box pen can be so easily made with 4 fence posts for corners and 3 very sturdy posts placed horizontally at the height of his point of shoulder (like a starting box). Make the box comfortably wider than him but not so wide he can swing around.
Have the front post on a sliding bracket so it can be removed if needed. Don't be tempted to put more lengths of fence up as it just increases the risk of getting caught on something.
Practice walking him staight through the middle initially and feeding him while standing with the front bar up, then reversing him in and out as needed. Always work with yourself on the OUTSIDE of the posts.
Start with an elastic surcingle being girthed up. Move on to placing just the saddle on his back while in the pen getting fed.
Eventually try a real girth. Once he realises he can't hurt you or swing around he may stop trying. He cant go anywhere if he broncs either, but you can release the front bar if needed.

I've used this with starting our driving horses to get them used to standing straight in the shafts, or in the horsebox for travelling. Also worked on a nasty cow kicker!
Click to expand...

Could do this, don't really need to though.
I can get the girth on with someone holding him or if I hold him with the leadrope pulled right up to the ring (but not tied or he might and has thrown himself over)
The worry is more about selling him and him getting passed on, someone unwittingly buying him, and getting crushed or jumped on because they didn't know or listen to how to manage him. He's not *that* difficult to manage, just dramatic and dangerous if he gets upset.
 
I agree that ulcers should be investigated or if you can't afford that then treat and see if it settles as suggested above.

If all health problems are ruled out then I would take him back to scratch and reintroduce the saddle and the girth very slowly. If it were me I would use clicker training. Once you've got him established on the clicker (have a google, loads of info out there) I would put the saddle on and if he is calm click and treat. Repeat this lots until he is completely happy with the saddle. Then touch the girth - again click and treat if he is calm, don't if he isn't. Repeat until he's happy. Then touch the girth against his side, click and treat etc etc. Very very gradually build up to doing girth up loosely, then tightening etc etc.

I imagine it would take you at least two weeks to build up to being able to do the girth up (maybe longer) and if he reacts badly you have to go back a step or two and build it up again. During this time I wouldn't just stick his saddle on to ride him or you will undo all your good work.

Clicker training should allow him to replace the negative associations he has with the girth with good ones.

As I said, it's only going to help if there is no underlying medical issues, but I think it has to be worth a try if the alternative is to PTS? I know clicker training isn't for everyone, but all it will cost you is a few pounds for a clicker, some treats and some time and patience.

Good luck whatever you do.
 
I see Lastchance, but the aim should be to have him stand quietly while getting saddled, instead of having to "manage" him and worry that someone else won't be able to.

What is he like to rug up with cross surcingles? Have you tried a roller ontop of a rug to break the association of the saddle? What about sitting on him bareback with an elasticated roller?
 
Someone might like the challenge but I know someone who thought they were overhorsed and gave the horse to the local hunt to try out as they didnt feel they could sell it if it was dangerous.Verdict it was dangerous and they had it PTS. That was my gut instinct before it does kill someone!

But unless someone who has endless time and one to one fancies the challenge etc. Velcro butt etc. You are obviously experienced but this horse is getting experienced too. Shame but I think PTS and not risk life and limb.Sorry.
 
lastchancer said:
Good point, I did try that and he was better - not sure if it was the element of suprise though. If he's better then I guess we can assume its a habit he's developed.
I'll try tomorrow and thanks for reminding me, I had clean forgetten about that.
Click to expand...

Well I girthed him from the wrong side today, very loosely and then tightened it up slowly from the other side, and he was OK. I have decided to keep riding and saddling up separate for the moment, IE I'll just ride him gently bareback so he's at least doing something, and just keep putting the saddle on and off 'till he's accepting it more readily.
He's not advertised at present so I'll just keep going with him until someone suitable comes along through word of mouth. He's not perfect but I don't think he's worse than a lot of other peoples over spoilt pig ignorant animals.
 
lastchancer said:
I'll try to keep this as short as I can....
I bought a horse last April as a project to bring on and sell.
This is what I have always done as a hobby, some have made a bit of profit, some have not, but I have never sold anything that hasn't been safe to ride and handle.
Well due to financial circumstances I am no longer in a postion to keep the latest one.

His good points;
Very kind nature
Easy snaffle mouth
No pulling
No Rearing
No Bucking, with a few exeptions - see below
No Napping
Not Fizzy
Not scared of any traffic
Loads and travels like a pro - you can take him anywhere

BUT
He is nervous of strangers - he went out on loan but had to come back as he had bucked the rider off before her botton was in the saddle.
He did the same to a rider on our yard a couple of times in a row
He has however been ridden by me since and was fine?
The bucking I think is a panic response triggered when he is nervous
Saddle issues - He is very girthy, if someone holds him and his girth is done up carefully he is ok. However if he is tied up he spins into you and crushes you against the wall.
Violently.
I have worked out ways to get round this but he will do it, he has caught me out today and if the stable wall hadn't given way my ribs and lungs would have.
He bucked me off early on after been broken, I believe that I scared him unwittingly, as he was going so well, I asked too much and he panicked. He has been ok since.

This is a 7YO horse who until september before last year had not been handled at all (then was very badly traumatised by someones methods of 'breaking' - think dope and hours and hours of lunging),
So, when he does react, he reacts like a feral horse rather than a well bought up 3YO. His issues have all been worked through and do improve with consistent work, however after a break he does regress, and also, I believe when he is in a new situation - hence the problems he had with the loan home.

He has had physio treatment on his back and neck, the physio and I now believe that his girthing issues are a pychological problem that has occured due to previous pain/bad experiance. Interestingly, I also ride him bareback and he is much happier. So it probably is the girthing rather than the weight he dislikes.

My dilemma now is what to do with him really;

1,Put him to sleep before he really hurts someone (he might not - he has a lot going for him and if I had an infinate bank balance and lots of time I'd damn well keep him until he was right)
2,Sell him to someone with a lot of experiance and hope they dont pass him on without sorting him / telling his buyer about his issues (again no reason to think that someone else couldn't get him right)
3,Try to find a permanent loan - a mine field in itself, although I did have him freezemarked. It's so difficult to find someone trustworthy who would manage him
4, Try to find somewere cheaper to keep him, easier said then done - this is not a horse that needs to be handled by kids/numpties and also I need facilities if I am to persevere with him

Just wondering what you guys would do?
Click to expand...

Is he talented? From a buisness point of view I'm thinking if you were to keep him until he was sorted will he be valuable enough to at least cover your costs. I know thats an awful thing to say, i do the same sort of thing as my job so have to earn a living from mt horses and whilst most of the time is is so rewarding a decision like this can be heartbreaking. The last thing you want is for him to hurt someone and then you end up getting sued.
If he is super talented then it will never be an issue if he is quirky all his life because an equally talented rider will be able to manage him, but if he is only a middle of the road horse then a talented rider is not going to bother. Could you ask around professional yards to see if they know of anyone, or like someone else said find an experienced sharer then share the money when he is sold, good luck x
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top