Dangerous pack of dogs at livery yard. PLEASE HELP

[Bumblebun]

I am need of some advice. My mum, sister and I all have horses and we have kept them at our current livery yard for around 2 years. At first we really enjoyed our time at the yard but along with most of the other liveries we are becoming increasingly upset.

Our yard owner has always had 4 dogs that were very poorly trained but as they spent most of the time locked in a stable we didn't worry too much. However 2 months ago the yard owner got 3 other new dogs that can escape from the stable by jumping the stable door so he has decided to let them out permanently along with the 4 he had originally.

In the past 3 months the dogs have been running free around the yard with little to no supervision. This is causing people's horses to spook whilst they are riding them in the school resulting in two liveries falling off one of which was my mum. My mums horse is normally a very well behaved horse, which is perfect for mum as she is a nervous rider. Unfortunately since she fell off she hasn't had the courage to get back on as she is worried it will happen again. We have told the yard owner but he still allows the dogs lose around the yard. The horses are continuously being chased whilst in the fields and they don't come to recall when the owner does occasionally try to control his dogs. The dogs fight with each other as well as other liveries dogs (not that anyone brings their own dogs up anymore).

We are currently looking to move yards but its hard to find yards with the faculties we need that have three spaces available.

What can we do to stop this from repeatedly happening? I know some of the dogs are from rescue centres but some were brought from breeders. We appreciate any replies or private messages.

 

[Moomin1]

Speak to the owner of the dogs?

 

[Bumblebun]

We have but he says that it's is their home and should be allowed to do as they like.

 

[Caol Ila]

Sounds like there isn't much you can do other than keep your eyes open for another yard and move as soon as possible. I don't like aggressive, obnoxious dogs, so I would move if the YO is as intransigent as you say.

Some horse some day will have their come-uppance. Plenty of horses will make short work of a dog who tries to chase them.

 

[Suelin]

We have but he says that it's is their home and should be allowed to do as they like.

It may well be their home, but imo he has a duty of care to the people that are paying him their money. It isn't that difficult to contain dogs frankly. A stable door grill will ensure they can't get out while paying customers are on the yard. Personally I would look for somewhere else for your horses but leave him in no doubt the reason that you are leaving. Maybe when these dogs hit him the pocket he will take a bit more notice. YO is highly irresponsible imo. If someone has a bad accident due the behaviour of his dogs in this litigious society then frankly he will wish he had trained them a bit better. Good luck with your move.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

If you have spoken to owner and he won't do anything then there is not much you can do unfortunately. Even though he has a duty of care and should keep his dogs under control we all know that YO are a law unto themselves.

One of the reasons I left my last yard was that the YO had two aggressive GS who dominated the yard. They used to bark continuously if she shut them in the pen whilst teaching and hogged the tack room including peeing in it regularly including on my tack trunk. She thought the sun shined out of their backsides but nobody else did.

 

[Booboos]

You need to move yards as this one is clearly unsuitable. I can't see what else you can do about someone else's dogs on their own property.

 

[twiggy2]

I would be inclined to move anywhere that was safe even if the horses had to be on separate yards for a short while,

 

[Echo24]

Sounds very irresponsible of the YO, especially as the dogs have caused two riders to fall off. Unfortunately I agree with the others and would move ASAP.

 

[AmyMay]

Not much you can do other than move yards.

I suspect the dogs will calm down though after the initial excitement of being released from their confines. And the horses will soon get used to having them around.

 

[Marydoll]

Move

 

[Mithras]

Sorry, but I'd move asap. A pack of untrained dogs sounds potentially dangerous. Some horses never learn to cope with this and never relax. There is one dog like this at my yard and its a nightmare!

 

[MrsNorris]

Have all of the liveries tried going en masse to see YO?
Perhaps if he realises that everyone is unhappy with the situation, he will do something about it.

 

[Goldenstar]

We have a huge pack of dogs running round our yard sometimes depending on whose here over ten .
It's great for the horses they are bomb proof with dogs out hacking ignore them while I am schooling .
Horses have to learn to cope with dogs and the unexpected I encourage the dogs to be out and about when we exercise in the woods .
They go into the horses stables under the stall bars and some sleep in the front of Fattys stable when it catches the sun which is a great thing for a hunter .
I have been here nearly 24years and have never had a dog kicked or a horse that did not accept them.
They are however well behaved dogs who recall well and don't chase horses they do spend loads of time mooching in the fields when the horses are turned out.
You just need to move its the YOers yard and you will struggle to influence him if he's determined .
You might suggest that the dogs are shut up at certain times but the dogs will settle when they are out all the time and if the humans are calm the horses will quickly accept them.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

One livery speaking to the YO about the dog issue will have little impact on them. If all liveries go together & speak about the issue then possibly they will realise the impact the dogs are having on the business & hopefully will realise that something needs to be done to control his dogs.

In the end the YO has the final say & the only thing all liveries can do is give notice. Hopefully, with the potential loss of revenue due to his dogs, he will change things.

 

[Bigginge]

Maybe show him the story in the news yesterday of the tragic case of a lady who died due to a falling haylage bale. The YO has been given a suspended sentence for breach of H&S rules, while I have sympathy with both sides involved in this case, if the worse does happen as your YO is running a commercial establishment he could find himself answering questions. Having said that, I know not all YO's are amenable and you might just be told to 'bog off' so personally I would be moving as soon as you can.

 

[Honey08]

Not much you can do other than move yards.

I suspect the dogs will calm down though after the initial excitement of being released from their confines. And the horses will soon get used to having them around.

I agree with this.

I would also use the situation to get the horse used to the dogs. Get someone else more confident to ride the horse in the school if you and your mum are a bit nervous.

I would also consider shutting the dogs in a stable myself while I was in the school if the owner won't himself. Get some dog treats, get the dogs used to coming to you and pop them in somewhere?

 

[_GG_]

This is a health and safety issue and as a business owner, he is ultimately responsible. If you are a BHS gold member, call the helpline or if you are not, get an appointment at your local CAB. Make notes of everything and get the proper legal advice that you need. It is an implied clause in any contract that all individuals be safe. Be that an employer ensuring the safety of staff or a livery yard owner ensuring the safety of his liveries. It doesn't need to be in black & white to be legal.

Also, this may fall under the remit of dogs dangerously out of control. That law applies to eithet dogs on public land or dogs on private land that are not allowed to be there. Although your livery yard is privately owned land, it could well be that it is considered a public place due to it being a livery yard accessible to the public by the permission of the owner.

I personally would not go in all guns ablazing. What I would do is seek advice from the appropriate authorities, gather the supporting documentation and take it to the owner with a bottle of wine one evening and just ask if I could have a quick chat about the dogs. That I didn't want to move, but that the situation was becoming dangerous and that, because of my mothers fall, I wanted to know where we stood in terms of our safety and the dogs. I would not be at all threatening or accusatory, I would be wanting to help the owner out a bit by giving them the cold hard facts in as nice a way as possible. I would then ask if he could please consider managing the dogs in a way that means they are not running loose or, let me know if he has no intention of doing that and I will search for other livery due.

It can be done nicely if it's done in person and just one of those things, rather than over dramatizing It all. Most people respond well to direct, upfront, polite conversation.

Good luck. I would be looking at other places anyway to be honest, but I would want to give the owner a chance as well.

 

[Wagtail]

We have a huge pack of dogs running round our yard sometimes depending on whose here over ten .
It's great for the horses they are bomb proof with dogs out hacking ignore them while I am schooling .
Horses have to learn to cope with dogs and the unexpected I encourage the dogs to be out and about when we exercise in the woods .
They go into the horses stables under the stall bars and some sleep in the front of Fattys stable when it catches the sun which is a great thing for a hunter .
I have been here nearly 24years and have never had a dog kicked or a horse that did not accept them.
They are however well behaved dogs who recall well and don't chase horses they do spend loads of time mooching in the fields when the horses are turned out.
You just need to move its the YOers yard and you will struggle to influence him if he's determined .
You might suggest that the dogs are shut up at certain times but the dogs will settle when they are out all the time and if the humans are calm the horses will quickly accept them.

I agree with this. So long as the dogs are not aggressive towards the humans or horses, then I think it is good for the horses to get used to this kind of thing. We have four dogs. Two stay in the house due to being chihuahua size and not getting on with the other two. My other two are huge Pyrenean mountain dogs that bark a lot and very loudly (only at strange noises or visitors.) They are like huge teddybears and all the liveries love them. They are well behaved around the horses, but have to be kept in the courtyard to stop them straying. This means that liveries have to be careful to close the gate as they go in and out with their horses. However, they are made aware of this when being shown around the yard. So only real dog lovers come here.

 

[twiggy2]

A pack of 7 out of control dogs that are getting a buzz/adrenaline hit from chasing horses are not going to stop of their own accord, they will have pack mentality and are going out to fill the need to hunt-it fills the need for mental and physical stimulation.

my mare is currently on a yard where 12 dogs live and another 9-11 visit a different times, this is a huge pack BUT non of them chase and are all with their respective owners at any given time so are under loose control.

Another yard I worked on I took my three and the manager had up to ten at any given time depending on if she had her husbands or any boarding with her-they were fine with the horses although the risk of getting your legs swept out from under you when my lurcher stirred them all up for a wild game was was very real indeed

 

[_GG_]

I also think it's great to have horses used to dogs running around. I like to know the dogs though and know they will come when I call.

 

[Caol Ila]

Didn't the OP say the dogs were chasing horses? I wouldn't mind dogs running about, so long as they weren't threatening to humans or equines. If they are chasing the horses, then it might have quite the opposite effect in terms of getting them used to dogs.

 

[EatSleepRide]

If the owner is not listening to complaints, then you should find another yard. It is irresponsible of the owner to let his dogs scare horses and injure people. If you go, it's his loss, not yours because he will be the one losing business.

 

[Maesfen]

TBH, as long as the dogs aren't dangerous to you then it's a case of acclimatizing your horses to them. Any sensible well mannered horse should ignore dogs when your exercising, I'd be appalled if my horses weren't mannerly around them whatever they do.

 

[Goldenstar]

Didn't the OP say the dogs were chasing horses? I wouldn't mind dogs running about, so long as they weren't threatening to humans or equines. If they are chasing the horses, then it might have quite the opposite effect in terms of getting them used to dogs.

the dogs will get kicked problem solved , horses are well able to look after them selves .
If the dogs where attacking horses that another thing but horses can deal with an undisiplined dog running about .

 

[lachlanandmarcus]

Dogs wandering around = a good thing, getting the horse used to dogs wandering around.
Dogs chasing the horses ESP in numbers of more than one= a bad thing, and risk that the YO must deal with.

OP You need to either get everyone to go en masse to YO or you need to leave pronto.

NB I think dogs as such are a good thing, the big black n tans were the only thing that stopped our livery yard at old place being cleared out as every other yard locally was. Locks were no deterrent but Rotties were.....BUT they need to be adequately controlled.

 

[RaynerK]

Simple. Move yards. There are plenty of yards with 'dogs to be kept on lead' policies. Look for one of those.

 

[Saneta]

So sad to read this. Whilst I'd be very concerned for any horses welfare when being chased by a pack of dogs, I'm also very worried for the welfare of these dogs. Why were they being shut up in a stable? Hasn't the YO done any training with these dogs? Why does YO have dogs? I left a livery when YO allowed her large dogs to attack livery owners and did nothing about it. If you went to fill a hay net, they would pin you up against the wall!!! YO said there's the gate you came in, close it on your way out...I shouted at one of his dogs once when it bit me on the bum. YO said please don't shout at my dog and I replied if it stopped biting me, I'd stop shouting at it. Horrid situation, You have to wonder what planet some people live on...
Might it be worth having a word with the local dog warden, or RSPCA inspector? Doesn't sound as if YO is giving proper duty of care to the poor dogs.

 

[Scoutie]

I am also on a yard where the owner has seven dogs and various visiting dogs. None of these dogs chase horses but they were developing a pack mentality, none of them are dangerous in their own right but seeing them set on one another when games got out of hand was frightening. There are also a number of very small children that visit the yard, and teenagers that live there. The liveries as well as the owner became concerned about people safety. She has addressed this by using a trainer, initially work individually with each dog and then with increasing numbers of dogs. The change in the dogs behaviour was rapid, as soon as they knew who was the boss the aggressive dynamics settled. They are not yet perfect but this is at least underway.

I think your yard owner needs to be concerned that if the pack mentality increases there may aggression towards people, this may be accidental i.e. someone being in the middle of a dog fight or it may be directed but without controls this could easily escalated.

 

[Bumblebun]

This is a health and safety issue and as a business owner, he is ultimately responsible. If you are a BHS gold member, call the helpline or if you are not, get an appointment at your local CAB. Make notes of everything and get the proper legal advice that you need. It is an implied clause in any contract that all individuals be safe. Be that an employer ensuring the safety of staff or a livery yard owner ensuring the safety of his liveries. It doesn't need to be in black & white to be legal.

Also, this may fall under the remit of dogs dangerously out of control. That law applies to eithet dogs on public land or dogs on private land that are not allowed to be there. Although your livery yard is privately owned land, it could well be that it is considered a public place due to it being a livery yard accessible to the public by the permission of the owner.

I personally would not go in all guns ablazing. What I would do is seek advice from the appropriate authorities, gather the supporting documentation and take it to the owner with a bottle of wine one evening and just ask if I could have a quick chat about the dogs. That I didn't want to move, but that the situation was becoming dangerous and that, because of my mothers fall, I wanted to know where we stood in terms of our safety and the dogs. I would not be at all threatening or accusatory, I would be wanting to help the owner out a bit by giving them the cold hard facts in as nice a way as possible. I would then ask if he could please consider managing the dogs in a way that means they are not running loose or, let me know if he has no intention of doing that and I will search for other livery due.

It can be done nicely if it's done in person and just one of those things, rather than over dramatizing It all. Most people respond well to direct, upfront, polite conversation.

Good luck. I would be looking at other places anyway to be honest, but I would want to give the owner a chance as well.

THANK YOU this is very helpful.

quite a number of liveries have complained about the dogs and he only threatens to throw people off the yard. He is not an approachable or sympathetic person.

I do agree with training horses to be fine around dogs and usually they are fine but if they jump out of a hedge or run into the school with the flood lights on so the horses can't see them coming, I can hardly blame my pony for spooking. I think that the safest I should feel on my pony is when I'm at the yard in familiar ménage. If I wanted to test how 'bomb proof' my pony is then that should be my choice.

I also think that this complete disregard for people's safety should not be allowed to continue regardless of us wanting to leave.