Darlan Fatal fall at Doncaster :(

Cpt - i am rapidly losing respect for you as a poster. I felt sympathy when you lost your horse to wobblers - it was awful and i felt for you. But no one here ever stated one horse's death was worse then another. I do feel for you for the loss of your horse, but you cannot really go around this forum posting spiteful and strong opinions then get upset when other peoples 'hackles' are raised.
 
The truth hurts doesn't it?
Funny how you interpreted cptrayes to be upset over 'hackles', when she was just raising a somelmn fact, which is true.
 
AnaV said:
The truth hurts doesn't it?
Funny how you interpreted cptrayes to be upset over 'hackles', when she was just raising a somelmn fact, which is true.
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No, she mentions having her hackles raised becuase one horses death is being mourned more then another...

No, the truth doesnt hurt..what an odd thing to say :confused:
 
Delicious_D said:
Cpt - i am rapidly losing respect for you as a poster ........ you cannot really go around this forum posting spiteful and strong opinions then get upset when other peoples 'hackles' are raised.
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You are completely anonymous, I do not know you at all. Can you explain to me why I should care what your opinion of me is?

I am not upset.

Strong opinions are still legal in this country :rolleyes:

"Spiteful" is rather a nasty word to use, says more about you than me, I think, if you call rational argument spite.


Can I suggest that if people want to get this thread back on track that they exercise the option of not answering me?
 
I recall you writing, do not get upset when one horse's death is raised when others are dismissed basically. She simply stated her point of view right at the begining, I was in agreement because it is true. The majority of those with no connections to horses which die on and off the track just pay respect to those who have 'achieved' something.
 
cptrayes said:
You are completely anonymous, I do not know you at all. Can you explain to me why I should care what your opinion of me is?

I am not upset.

Strong opinions are still legal in this country :rolleyes:

"Spiteful" is rather a nasty word to use, says more about you than me, I think, if you call rational argument spite.


Can I suggest that if people want to get this thread back on track that they exercise the option of not answering me?
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Lovely attitude you have there :rolleyes:
 
Oh god!!!! Seriously people!!! Why not those who dislike racing just stay away from these threads and let those who want to comiserate do so??

I hate it when people hide behind the whole 'open forum' comment just to give them a reason. I respect people have views that dont go with racing, also have that with hunting, NH, Non-NH, Shoes, BF the list goes on and on and on but just because you can say summat dont mean you have to. I have a lot of respect for certain of the members having a go on this thread but please if you dont like a topic then why go on and have a go when people will undoubtably be upset. you dont see this sort of reaction on Eventing horses being PTS after a fall on a course, or SJ's who have heart attacks/falls.

He was a gorgeous horse and a great talent. RIP.
 
The point of the post was to express sadness at the loss of a talented horse not to debate the merits or otherwise of NH racing.
CTP seems to make a habit of engaging in endless pointless debates with anyone who doesn't agree with his\her point of view - very much my way or the highway.
As someone who has over the years been to many NH meetings I can assure you the loss of any horse is felt deeply by not just the immediate connections but also the paying crowd. Lots of times when horses have fallen, the crowds have stayed in the grandstands waiting to see if the fallen horse gets up. The wave of relief when they do is heartfelt and the sadness when they don't is equal. I remember seeing Our Vic take a crashing fall at Cheltenham & the roar of the crowd when he got to his feet and emerged from behind the screens was touching. & like EKW I've come home without a horse and its heartbreaking for all concerned.
 
Zebedee,

Your quotes are not related. The "loss of this horse is worthy of comment" related to comment by posters on this thread.

Posters on this thread may well feel equally sympathetic to the connections of every dead racehorse, but they only commented on the one. That is the only point that I made.

Isn't it time you started to ignore me and get the thread back where you wanted it?
 
KautoStar1 said:
CTP seems to make a habit of engaging in endless pointless debates with anyone who doesn't agree with his\her point of view - very much my way or the highway. .
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Actually I make a habit of engaging in debates that I find interesting, and I do not find them pointless. I am always amused that I am accused of debating with people who don't agree with my point of view. There wouldn't be a debate otherwise, would there? There's always someone on the other end who doesn't agree with mine. That's what makes a debate.
 
KautoStar1 said:
I can assure you the loss of any horse is felt deeply by not just the immediate connections but also the paying crowd.
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Felt "deeply" by the crowd? Your definition of deeply differs from mine.

"Deeply" is how my other half felt when I took him to Haydock one day and the green screens came out. He refuses ever to attend another race and if you think I am against racing, you should hear him. He wants it banned. I don't think it's that simple. But on that day, the overwhelming majority of the crowd didn't react at all, and I'll be he is one of the very few people who left that course that day and ever thought about that horse again.


For people who didn't want this thread to degenerate into a discussion about racing, you're all doing a great job of perpetuating it.
 
I wonder what the chances are of any NH horse dying as a result of the sport? Say their career is seven years. What is the chance that they would die due to it? What percent come out of the sport to a retirement?

Yes, everything we do with horses is risky, but nothing compares to NH racing. Yes, I feel for the connections of the dead horses, but they have the option of avoiding being in that situation. The horses do not.
 
cptrayes said:
I have not criticised either the owners or their associates.

I have not, contrary to what you probably think you have read, criticised racing.

What I have done is comment on emotional hand-wringing over something which is simply part and parcel of everday racing. If we had the same reaction over every NH horse that has died during or because of a race this season then I would understand. But why only this one? Because he was pretty and ran fast?
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Every time one of our noble steeds goes into the arena of horse racing - they are at risk.....I have done it at much lower level (but as high risk with my pointers) it does not make the loss any sadder - but the sport is to some extent death or glory - it is the risk we all acknowledge - for Darlan, no pain, only death nd (glory) for everyone else ghastly - but these top of the grade racehorses die at their peak (if they do) worry far more about those who have glory, then what next?
 
I can't see any difference between a racehorse being killed on the track and a hunter being fatally injured or an eventer or show jumper. They are all doing the job they were bred for, and giving enjoyment to their owners.

So if an eventer is killed, do we ban eventing? Or a horse killed out hunting, do we all hunt on foot after that. A show jumper gets tangled in a fence and breaks his leg - ban all show jumping?

Darlan was an exciting, successful racehorse, a personality because he was successful.
Poor boy, sympathy to the owners and connections.
 
Orangehorse said:
I can't see any difference between a racehorse being killed on the track and a hunter being fatally injured or an eventer or show jumper. They are all doing the job they were bred for, and giving enjoyment to their owners.

So if an eventer is killed, do we ban eventing? Or a horse killed out hunting, do we all hunt on foot after that. A show jumper gets tangled in a fence and breaks his leg - ban all show jumping?

Darlan was an exciting, successful racehorse, a personality because he was successful.
Poor boy, sympathy to the owners and connections.
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I think the point is that rather more racehorses end up worse off than showjumpers/eventers etc etc.

I do see your sentiment though, and yes it's a fine line.
 
Moomin1 said:
I think the point is that rather more racehorses end up worse off than showjumpers/eventers etc etc.

I do see your sentiment though, and yes it's a fine line.
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But what about the normal horses who get killed in their fields, their stables or at the hands of morons that own them. Accidents happen to all sorts of horses at any time in their lives on a daily basis but you don't say stop turning it out, stop riding it, stop stabling it and so on. Accidents happen but racehorses and other competitive horses are in the limelight doing what they were bred for and enjoy, giving huge pleasure to those connected with them and the spectators which is why you hear far more about them but in the general way of things there are far less killed competitively than from normal living conditions which needs putting in perspective.
 
I, too, have sympathy for Darlan's connections. That is not because I value Darlan above any other horse that died on the day but because his name was known to me. I am long away from racing and don't really follow it much these days but I had read about Darlan's talent and about his connections' hopes for him.

Naturally, I have sympathy for anyone who loses a horse, whether racing, hunting or through illness, but it does "chime" more when I read a name that I know. Likewise, I felt the loss of Synchronised, simply because his big white face appealed to me.

On many occasions I have passed on my condolences to HHO members on the loss of their horses. I don't know any of them as far as I know but I recognise their distress and hope that the support they are shown may help to mitigate it slightly.

I think the comments from the OP and others are simply a way of recognising that Darlan made an impact on them personally in one way or another. I see it as a tribute, rather than hand-wringing.
 
moleskinsmum said:
.......

On many occasions I have passed on my condolences to HHO members on the loss of their horses. I don't know any of them as far as I know but I recognise their distress and hope that the support they are shown may help to mitigate it slightly.

........
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How right you are, and well said. Condolences are really no more than mutterings. They're simply an expression of understanding, and that the loss of an animal is an understood and accepted grief.

I can't believe that the loss of anyone's pride and joy is any more acceptable or not, than the loss of any horse. Darlan stood out and he was in the public eye. He was of no more or less loss than the horse which was lost, by cpt for instance, and that was my point. We are all sorry, we all regret and empathise with the losses. It's what we do.

I shot a youngster at weaning last year, and it still hurts. I was very attached to him, and he to me. I didn't seek sympathy on here, preferring to keep my own counsel. I understand that others find it easier to vent their feelings. That's fine too, and I will commiserate with them. We aren't all the same!

Alec.
 
Orangehorse said:
I can't see any difference between a racehorse being killed on the track and a hunter being fatally injured or an eventer or show jumper. They are all doing the job they were bred for, and giving enjoyment to their owners.

So if an eventer is killed, do we ban eventing? Or a horse killed out hunting, do we all hunt on foot after that. A show jumper gets tangled in a fence and breaks his leg - ban all show jumping?
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It's the percentages that make the difference. According to the official racing statistics the death rate on the racetrack is 1 in 250 starts.

If you applied that to eventing there would be one horse death for nearly every single day of BE eventing. I am pretty certain that BE would stop running if this was the case.

If you applied it to showjumping, it would probably be what, about one for every two days competition? I think the public would have a problem stomaching that one too, if a four day meet reliably killed two horses.

Every Olympics would mean the death of several horses. I do not believe that the Olympic committee would continue to include horse events if that was the case.

I can see the argument, but there is a point where the risk is unacceptable. For example, I cannot see that anyone would continue to run NH racing if the death rate was 75%. So we are not arguing about whether too many horse deaths are acceptable. We are arguing about where our personal view of the acceptable level of risk is.
 
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Alec Swan said:
He was of no more or less loss than the horse which was lost, by cpt for instance, and that was my point.
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I can't agree with this, sorry Alec. I do not accept that the loss of a racehorse that he owns and sees only occasionally by J P McManus in any way compares with the loss of a horse which I personally spent several hours a day with, and who I taught almost everything he knew for 6 years and who was responsible also for a large proportion of my social life in attending riding functions with friends and acquaintances. I don't think I am special in this, I do not think his, the trainer's or the jockey's loss in any way compares to the loss suffered by a long term owner of a single "companion" horse. The groom is likely to be most affected, but still nothing to compare with an average Riding Clubber owner.
 
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