Dartmoor Pony Lovers out there...

madiz123

madiz123

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(Also posted in SW forum)

So I am not really the campaigning type - but my friend's mum runs the Dartmoor Hill Pony Society and is having a lot of difficulty raising awareness for the problems that they are facing due there being too many ponies on the moor, which results in many being shot as they cannot be sold.

Please please check out their petition!

http://www.change.org/petitions/all...utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition
 
The solution is far far far simpler. Take the bloody stallions off the moor. Stop breeding. And there are far worse things that can happen to a horse than being shot. I have no issue with the ponies being culled and taken to the zoo. The reason why there is such an issue is the idiots who continue to run their stallions ' because its their right' and then get peanuts for the foals at the sales. Castrate the stallions and then no need to waste money on contraceptives for the mares. If anyone running a stallion had to have a licence, which they paid for, there would be less stallions and therefore less foals. Someone has to get tough, make a decision that actually works, and catching every mare and giving it contraception seems a bit fool hardy

Oh and yes I live by Dartmoor. I can see the appalling quality of the stallions up there and there is no way that the market can sustain the volume of young stock being produced up there. So something does need to be done.
 
One of the main problems with the dartmoor hill ponies is they are not true dartmoor ponies which will make them harder to sell.

They realy need to implement a scheam such as in the new forest to restrict the number of stallions that are put out, the amount of time they are put out for and run a proper breeding program so quality ponies are bred.

Don't get me wrong The scheam in the new forest isn't perfect but it is helping with the over breeding problems.
 
I love Dartmoor ponies.
However, the cross-bred-mixed-parentage hill ponies are a completely different ball game altogether.

Totally agree with Bosworths post.

The 'association' of the hilll pony owners has been told to cull/remove the stallions repeatedly over the past 4 years or more.
Until they do so, they are very unlikely to get any help from the mainstream equestrian world, due to the un-regulated indiscriminate breeding that is allowed to carry on year in & year out.
Actually - I'll go further - its a bleeping disgrace IMHO.
 
I can t believe someone thinks giving mares contraceptives is sustainable.
Clearly we dont need as many horses on the moors as each year loads are sold or killed. So reduce the herds down to a sustainable number and retain a few quality licenced stallions with a breeding programm and you might just might improve quality and sellability

Dont waste money on land to run un feasible projects.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
I love Dartmoor ponies.
However, the cross-bred-mixed-parentage hill ponies are a completely different ball game altogether.
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have to say I agree, I know these ponies do sometimes find a caring owner and a great home and am sure they are very useful etc etc but at the end of the day they arent Dartmoor ponies!

The start of the petition reads 'Dartmoor ponies are vital for maintaining Dartmoor’s landscape and provide pleasure for visitors'

Yes they quite possibly are are but again we arent talking about Dartmoor ponies here. very misleading for those who dont actually know the extent of the badly bred population on Dartmoor

I'm with the first reply - remove the stallions or geld them, would make things safer for the public and owners too surely?
 
I too live and work on Dartmoor and know a few of the farmers who breed the ponies. The sales at Chagford and Tavistock this year have resulted in low sales and low prices, and a swift death is surely better than some end could be.

We had a Dartmoor Hill Pony from OP's friends Mum, cared for her, gentled her, wormed and feet trimmed, headcollar trained, she was a sweet little thing, a bay filly. At three years old she went back to the DHPA to be lightly backed and/or sold on - and they left the gate open onto the moor, and the filly was straight back out and pregnant, and who knows if the stallion could even have been her own sire?!

Too much breeding of ponies with no long term future. Vasectomy for most stallions so they retain their herd (I know one owner has already done this), other stallions need to be graded. Cull mares which shouldn't be bred from, and return the moor to the typical Dartmoor pony, generally bay, stocky with the pretty head, they don't all need to be pure bred in my opinion but they do need to be 'typey'.

PS - I do know of one farmer who is having two ponies butchered to eat, makes sense to me. These ponies will have cost him £10 to buy, he has the butchery costs, he knows that the ponies have had a good life with no drugs in their system.
 
there is actually a huge difference between a Dartmoor pony, and a Dartmoor hill pony. A Dartmoor pony is not an original breed, it was developed by crossing ponies off Dartmoor with an arab, the stallion Dwarka, as well as Dwarka’s son, The Leat. Welsh pony breeding was introduced from the stallion Dinarth Spark, and infusions of Fell Pony blood was also added, which created a pony perfect for children with the stamina of the hill pony. That then became the breed standard for the pedigree Dartmoor pony.

The Dartmoor Hill pony has been living on Dartmoor for years, documents from Henry VIIIs time mention a stocky pony, of many colours living on the moors, but Shetlands were crossed in to develop a pony suitable size for working the mines, over time all sorts of horses have been chucked on the moors, they have interbred, mares and stallions have mated with their own offspring, there are far far far too many. The owners need regulating, yes many are cantankerous, and 'its their right' but something needs to be done, I have no issue whatsoever with over stock being sold to the Zoo, why not, other carcasses are fed to the lions. But if people want to stop this then they have to stop the indiscriminate breeding. And to be honest, why not feed lions horse, surely its no worse than cow. And as the breeders seem incapable of stopping them breeding then why should the zoos not benefit.
 
'Dartmoor ponies are vital for maintaining Dartmoor&#8217 said:
Then lets have Dartmoor ponies there. Not trying to be rude but hill ponies have no more pedigree or type than any other random bunch of ponies loosed onto a piece of ground & interbreeding. There is no type, they are not a breed. Long term I'd love to see Dartmoor ponies (or at least ponies of this type) on Dartmoor, same as you get Exmoors on Exmoor & New Forests in the New Forest. It's nearly as bad as the Bodmin Hill Pony situation. It's a shame that those who work the moors are the ones who quote their 'rights' & resist any change. Ponies are needed on the moor, but IMHO that doesn't mean the same as dartmoor hill ponies are needed, they aren't. At the very least a type should be set up, removal of ponies who aren't as per type & a stud book set up. They need to take responsibility for their own stock, with branding (or chip but they must be identifiable) so when it isn't economical to feed them they just are dumped & left to starve the owner can be traced & either be made to shoot them or care for them. Currently there is no comeback when this happens as the ponies can't be proven to belong to a specific owner.
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I went back to my friend to ask about why they aren't advocating removing stallions from the moor - but apparently it is not as simple as taking the stallions off the moor or gelding them. Stallions ensure the mares are kept in small groups and spread across the moor due to rivalry between stallions. If there were no stallions (and geldings would not be able to take up their role due to the lack of hormones) the mares would convene into large herds and therefore grazing would be intense in some areas and non-existent in others.
 
County standard - as what?

I judge sometimes but can't see from a laying down picture anything to suggest a show pony - maybe in private driving?
 
s4sugar said:
County standard - as what?
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This.

Certainly not county standard as a Dartmoor pony

Plenty of crossbred ponies out there that are county standard show ponies, SHP, WHP - it doesnt mean that they are anything other than crossbreeds with good conformation and an ability to do the job

Yes the live ponies do deserve a chance at life - the problem is stopping the breeding of the countless ones born every year for which there is no market currently

I have a welsh 'hill type' pony, unregistered, I am hoping he will make a nice SHP, he is lovely and I wouldnt be without him but for everyone like him and like the one in the pic above who deserves a chance at life and lands on their feet with a nice owner there will be countless others who werent so lucky
 
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Agree totally with Bosworth. Only fully pedigree'd registered DARTMOOR PONIES should ever be allowed on the moor, it's a total disgrace that other breeding stock is allowed to mingle with our proper native breed (same goes for the New Forest and the Welsh that are allowed to roam free on their moors) I'd have no compunction in shooting all of those that aren't pure natives both for their own benefit and the benefit of the natives. The National Park Authority should be ashamed of themselves that they have allowed the intermingling which has resulted in a steady decline of homes for the pure breds which they are meant to be custodians of.
 
EKW said:
Sorry, no way I'd have a Hill pony - no idea of parentage, inbreeding or the likes.

I agree with the poster above.
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Exactly, THIS is the true problem. Ditto everything that "Bosworth" has said too........ this goes back a long long way - to the 1960's and even before that in fact, in the years after WW2, where the "true" Dartmoor hill pony was interbred with a lot of runty stallions allowed up onto the moor. And now the true Dartmoor has all but disappeared, and in fact cannot be found on the Moor itself only in enclosed studs.

The late Lady Sayer - and others - spoke up and said basically what Bosworth and other locals were saying, but it was like P!ssing into the wind TBH. No one took any notice, and institutions like Defra (and before them the Min of Ag) couldn't give a stuff about anything equine.

HAD the true Dartmoor pony been valued as a breed and the inter-breeding not happened, we would have at least ended up with a breed that someone, somewhere, might want and not poor little interbred ponies which aren't even attracting a bid at auction.

For years the buck SHOULD have stopped somewhere, and someone, and/or a registratory body of some sort, should have been set up as this was a disaster waiting to happen many years ago......... and now it IS a walking disaster, and the poor little ponies that no-one wants are the sufferers of that lack of policy and direction.

Sorry... am ranting, but this isn't anything new, its been total mis-management for at least fifty years, forty certainly, when the coloured stallions were first put up on the moor.
 
madiz123 said:
I went back to my friend to ask about why they aren't advocating removing stallions from the moor - but apparently it is not as simple as taking the stallions off the moor or gelding them. Stallions ensure the mares are kept in small groups and spread across the moor due to rivalry between stallions. If there were no stallions (and geldings would not be able to take up their role due to the lack of hormones) the mares would convene into large herds and therefore grazing would be intense in some areas and non-existent in others.
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It's worth giving it a whirl though. Certainly my experience with late cut horses is that if their herd behaviour is established they continue to behave in that way.
 
jemima*askin said:
It's worth giving it a whirl though. Certainly my experience with late cut horses is that if their herd behaviour is established they continue to behave in that way.
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Or as someone suggested earlier, vasectomise them, we do it with rams that we want to bring ewes into season but not get them preggers, and we do it with teaser horses at studs already. They will think they are stallions, they won't know they have no lead in their pencils.
 
madiz123 said:
I went back to my friend to ask about why they aren't advocating removing stallions from the moor - but apparently it is not as simple as taking the stallions off the moor or gelding them. Stallions ensure the mares are kept in small groups and spread across the moor due to rivalry between stallions. If there were no stallions (and geldings would not be able to take up their role due to the lack of hormones) the mares would convene into large herds and therefore grazing would be intense in some areas and non-existent in others.
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But they manage on the forest with only mares and geldings out. The stallions are only out for 2-3 weeks in June. Sorry but this ^^ is just more poor excuses i'm afraid.
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
Or as someone suggested earlier, vasectomise them, we do it with rams that we want to bring ewes into season but not get them preggers, and we do it with teaser horses at studs already. They will think they are stallions, they won't know they have no lead in their pencils.
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I own a dartmoor stallion. He's only got one ball, so wasn't gelded. Won't ever be used for breeding. He's a children's pony, and lives quietly in my bachelor herd. Until today I'd never heard of horses being vasectomised - it was never suggested by any of the vets I talked to. Presumably because the presumption is to geld for behaviour, wheras the only concern I have with my entires is that someone's mare might get at them!
 
LauraWheeler said:
But they manage on the forest with only mares and geldings out. The stallions are only out for 2-3 weeks in June. Sorry but this ^^ is just more poor excuses i'm afraid.
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I can see how Dartmoor is very different to manage from the new forest, which is neatly enclosed to allow stallions to run in a defined area.

That said, the mountain and moorland scheme was very successful in breeding good quality Dartmoor ponies when the breed was critical, so it's clearly possible to have some selective breeding.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
I am sure you love her very much, however she is not in any way a Dartmoor pony.
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If you read my post you will see I didn't actually say she was a Dartmoor pony but a Dartmoor Hill pony! She has won in hand in coloured classes at a couple of biggish local shows.

I'm not saying that it's a good thing that ponies like her are being bred, it just makes me so cross when people make comments about how rubbish they are as if they're objects not living creatures!
 
They seem to be able to manange the herds in Exmoor, keeping true to type ponies & quality. That is the closest place to Dartmoor in terms of terrain and ecology. It's nothing to do with the excuses they come up with, and everything about keeping these animals as stock to make money (not knocking this or farmers, they need to make a living, just I don't think how they go about treating the moor wrt ponies is right). If blue ponies were the latest fashion, they'd start turning blue stallions out even if not tough enough to cope with the conditions to get more money at market. They breed with no interest in producing quality, just what they think will make a quick buck usually determined by its colour. I remember when the plight of starving bhp was discussed, someone claimed they were trying to improve quality by using a welsh stallion. Surely they are just producing more welsh part-breds with it being crossed with a heinz 57 which wont improve on the welsh, & they have enough of them from the wales & studs of higher quality to sell as it is, do we really need more? As soon as they don't sell or the price of meat drops (where many end up - no problem with that per se but appreciate they are being 'bred' with that in mind if they don't go for a riding pony from the market) & keeping them becomes uneconomical, suddenly they don't belong to anyone & are left to starve on the moor. They don't even waste the cost of a bullet.

I feel very pashionately about this as I hate to see the state they get in when I'm driving every day over moor or riding up there. It can be remedied, with vision & determination, but the people in the position to do something wont & can't be forced as they have the 'rights' to treat them this way. Not all of them are bad, but there aren't enough interested in improving the situation to make a big difference.

Well done with yours, hope you do get to a county show one day. With any group of specimens there will be a minority that are better than the others, but the are a minority. Your heart can't help but break to see the same, bad conformation, weedy, often tiny things (usually coloured or spotted) have a foal year after year, no better than themselves.
 
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Mitchyden said:
They still deserve a chance of life though. This is my rescue Dartmoor Hill Pony and I've been told by a show judge that she's county standard. Not all rescue cases are bad!
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Completely agree with bosworth on this one. And re the rescuing, I've had a few too, I bought three, a purebred dartie, a thelwell type and what I reckon was probably exmoor cross. Whilst I'd absolutely do it again, there does appear to be fuel for the fire by 'rescuing' there is always someone there 'rescuing' them so they just don't seem to take the over population seriously. I'd like to see all the dartmoor stallions castrated, personally I think that to bring them all off the moors would flood an already flooded market, castrating the stallions, bringing the numbers down slowly, selling off mares on a yearly basis until we just have dartmoors up there. It would have to be a phased process, but it is necesarry.
 
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