Dartmoor Pony Society endorsing Eating them to save species.

If they are so useful and quality why are they selling for pocket money surely trying to make them a more useful animal it would make them more valuable and then again be more acceptable to a wider market.
I agree with you though that the conservation grazing is vital to the health of the moor
 
windand rain said:
If they are so useful and quality why are they selling for pocket money surely trying to make them a more useful animal it would make them more valuable and then again be more acceptable to a wider market.
I agree with you though that the conservation grazing is vital to the health of the moor
Click to expand...

Perhaps a more commercial pony in the sense of riding/ showing etc isn't as adaptable or hardy as existing stock? They do have to be extreme good doers at the very least. (I'm saying an immediate outcross to another breed through introducing a stallion might not be suitable for the habitat)

A reasonable base price for the pony, be it meat or other use would ensure the less desirable stock could be removed from the herds without the farmers taking such a hit. And perhaps this would enable the breed to work towards being both commercially appealing and suited to it's environment.
 
happyhacking:) said:
Wow so much ignorance on here today. I don't often post on here but this thread has made my blood boil!!!

To start with a little bit of information about the hill ponies. All ponies on dartmoor were brought there for a specific purpose. Small ponies for working in the mines and larger ponies used for transport. There isn't and has never been a single type of pony on dartmoor.
The dartmoor pony was born when showing ponies became popular. When competing in mountain and moorland type competitions the hill ponies did very badly due to their lack of uniform type. As a result a number of breeders started to cross hill pony mares with their chosen characteristics with welsh and other breeds to create what we now know as the dartmoor pony. But please be clear that the dartmoor pony hasn't ever run on dartmoor and if they were put up there they would not survive.
The hill ponies are very important ecologically for the conservation of dartmoor. They are the only animals on the moor who eat the gorse and some other plant species which are not touched by the cattle or sheep. The reduction in the number of ponies on the moor is already having a huge impact on the gorse. which in certain areas is now having to be burnt in order to maintain the open access for the public. The number of ponies on the moor has halved in the past few years and we are in real danger of loosing them from the moors altogether which I personally think would be a disaster got dartmoor. If we loose them they could not just be easily reintroduced. The mares on the moor teach their foals the terrain, how to negotiate bogs, travel through bolder fields and find safe places to eat and drink. Generations of ponies have past this information from mother to daughter. If we loose it now it's gone for good.

There is no public funding for the ponies on dartmoor yet they are considered to be one of the biggest draws for people who want to visit dartmoor. Rightly or wrongly there is always a peak in the number of tourists in the May period when there are very young foals around. Dartmoor (and devon as a whole) is hugely reliant on the tourist trade and any reduction in the number of tourists would be financially bad news for the area. I do feel it's a shame that the tourists don't have the opportunity to donate and support the conservation of the hill ponies.

Which brings me on to the farmers and re breeding of the hill ponies. To those who believe the ponies to be badly bred I'm afraid you are mistaken. There are a minority of farmers who don't really put any importance on their ponies and this is naturally reflected in their stock. But the vast majority place huge pride in their ponies and many will be able to tell you an awful lot about their ponies. They know who their mother was, their grand mother, great grandmother and so on. Whilst their is no breed stud book their are clear lines that go back generations. If the farmers didn't care about their ponies they would not still be on the moor. The vast majority of farmers have inherited their farms from their fathers or other family members and intend to pass it on to the next generation and in the words of one dartmoor farmer he ' doesn't want to be the generation that dropped the batten and lost the ponies'. They do care and are working hard to keep them.

My personal view on the horse meat is that is if it enables us to conserve the ponies on the moor and with it dartmoor itself then good luck to it. I'm not sure if I would eat it myself but I would not stand in the way of it either. It buys us time here. Time which we need to establish a long term sustainable future for the ponies and the farmers on the moor.
I also think that we as an equine community should celebrate what we have here on dartmoor. A semi wild population of ponies from whom we can learn so so much. I still find it amazing that I can go and sit amongst a wild herd and watch them interact with each other, with me and with the other animals on the moor. I can learn the body language they use and just hang out with them in a way that most of us can't so with our own horses. I can take half an hour out from my busy world to think and be in the moment with a herd if beautiful animals in an awesome environment. People fly all over the world to see the mustangs of America and other wild horse populations yet don't celebrate what we have here in the UK.


We can learn so much from theses ponies but they are seriously under threat.
Click to expand...

It's not rocket science. There are too many hill ponies & not the demand. To reduce the supply, stop them breeding & the debate about whether they should be culled is void.
 
1) Because the bottom has dropped out of the market due to the recession. When you can pick up much larger breeds for practically nothing how the hell are these ponies going to get a look in?
2) because at some point the decision was made to exclude them from mountain and moorland completions so cannot be shown.
3) this problem isn't new it's just organisations are doing more and more to find homes for the ponies and find long term solutions to the problems on the moor. This creates publicity and naturally there will always be some form of backlash against them. We cannot win last year we were being criticised for charging people for the ponies we were rehoming despite us microchipping, passporting and worming the ponies driving miles and miles to organise ponies prior to collection and providing a huge amount of training and support to the new owners.
 
blazingsaddles said:
It's not rocket science. There are too many hill ponies & not the demand. To reduce the supply, stop them breeding & the debate about whether they should be culled is void.
Click to expand...

So how would you propose to do that then?
Remove the stallions??
This is being done alone with vasectomising stallions so that they still act as the stallion. Problem is it would be very difficult to get them all done and would cost a fortune. There still needs to be a replacement breeding program to replace fallen stock and they need to be born and grow up on the moor to learn the ways. We can't just leave a handful of stallions entire up there as that would reduce the gene pool too low (and that is definitely not in their interests nor in the dartmoor ponies interests as the hill ponies are now being bred into the dartmoor ponies to increase the blood lines). There ant actually that many stallions on the moor anyhow there's probably less than 50 to 900 mares plus geldings and some of those stallions are vasectomised.
 
The irony of all this is that year's ago, Britain introduced minimum value legislation to protect low value ponies from being exported for slaughter.

I am surrounded by small equestrian centres whose main income is Pony Club, riding and training for French children, who being smaller and lighter than their British counterparts are perfectly suited by small native ponies.

My nearest Pony Club is fully booked for the whole of the summer and the rest of the year has escorted forest rides every weekend.

France has a system of Stage training, not unlike a BHS stage and again our local clubs run these throughout the year.
 
happyhacking:) said:
So how would you propose to do that then?
Remove the stallions??
This is being done alone with vasectomising stallions so that they still act as the stallion. Problem is it would be very difficult to get them all done and would cost a fortune. There still needs to be a replacement breeding program to replace fallen stock and they need to be born and grow up on the moor to learn the ways. We can't just leave a handful of stallions entire up there as that would reduce the gene pool too low (and that is definitely not in their interests nor in the dartmoor ponies interests as the hill ponies are now being bred into the dartmoor ponies to increase the blood lines). There ant actually that many stallions on the moor anyhow there's probably less than 50 to 900 mares plus geldings and some of those stallions are vasectomised.
Click to expand...

Shoot the stallions if the owners can't afford castration.
 
You seem to think I am anti the ponies far from it I perceive them to be the only way to conserve the moor and thus the rest of the animals habitat. As the ponies have so drastically declined surely a scheme where a good doer breed stallion could be introduced to the moor spring and summer to increase the size and substance of the hill ponies making them a more valuable asset. In this instance it insnt over breeding but the perceived breeding of poor stock. Various stallions have been introduced over the generations so it is not impossible. If modern stallions are not tough enough they should be fine in Spring and Summer. Surely as the Exmoor society are saying it is the dumping of privately owned ponies and horses that is the biggest risk most of whom would barely last a week in the conditions as they arrive in poor nick and are abandoned as apposed to acclimatised
 
happyhacking:) said:
Wow so much ignorance on here today. I don't often post on here but this thread has made my blood boil!!!

To start with a little bit of information about the hill ponies. All ponies on dartmoor were brought there for a specific purpose. Small ponies for working in the mines and larger ponies used for transport. There isn't and has never been a single type of pony on dartmoor.
The dartmoor pony was born when showing ponies became popular. When competing in mountain and moorland type competitions the hill ponies did very badly due to their lack of uniform type. As a result a number of breeders started to cross hill pony mares with their chosen characteristics with welsh and other breeds to create what we now know as the dartmoor pony. But please be clear that the dartmoor pony hasn't ever run on dartmoor and if they were put up there they would not survive.
The hill ponies are very important ecologically for the conservation of dartmoor. They are the only animals on the moor who eat the gorse and some other plant species which are not touched by the cattle or sheep. The reduction in the number of ponies on the moor is already having a huge impact on the gorse. which in certain areas is now having to be burnt in order to maintain the open access for the public. The number of ponies on the moor has halved in the past few years and we are in real danger of loosing them from the moors altogether which I personally think would be a disaster got dartmoor. If we loose them they could not just be easily reintroduced. The mares on the moor teach their foals the terrain, how to negotiate bogs, travel through bolder fields and find safe places to eat and drink. Generations of ponies have past this information from mother to daughter. If we loose it now it's gone for good.

There is no public funding for the ponies on dartmoor yet they are considered to be one of the biggest draws for people who want to visit dartmoor. Rightly or wrongly there is always a peak in the number of tourists in the May period when there are very young foals around. Dartmoor (and devon as a whole) is hugely reliant on the tourist trade and any reduction in the number of tourists would be financially bad news for the area. I do feel it's a shame that the tourists don't have the opportunity to donate and support the conservation of the hill ponies.

Which brings me on to the farmers and re breeding of the hill ponies. To those who believe the ponies to be badly bred I'm afraid you are mistaken. There are a minority of farmers who don't really put any importance on their ponies and this is naturally reflected in their stock. But the vast majority place huge pride in their ponies and many will be able to tell you an awful lot about their ponies. They know who their mother was, their grand mother, great grandmother and so on. Whilst their is no breed stud book their are clear lines that go back generations. If the farmers didn't care about their ponies they would not still be on the moor. The vast majority of farmers have inherited their farms from their fathers or other family members and intend to pass it on to the next generation and in the words of one dartmoor farmer he ' doesn't want to be the generation that dropped the batten and lost the ponies'. They do care and are working hard to keep them.

My personal view on the horse meat is that is if it enables us to conserve the ponies on the moor and with it dartmoor itself then good luck to it. I'm not sure if I would eat it myself but I would not stand in the way of it either. It buys us time here. Time which we need to establish a long term sustainable future for the ponies and the farmers on the moor.
I also think that we as an equine community should celebrate what we have here on dartmoor. A semi wild population of ponies from whom we can learn so so much. I still find it amazing that I can go and sit amongst a wild herd and watch them interact with each other, with me and with the other animals on the moor. I can learn the body language they use and just hang out with them in a way that most of us can't so with our own horses. I can take half an hour out from my busy world to think and be in the moment with a herd if beautiful animals in an awesome environment. People fly all over the world to see the mustangs of America and other wild horse populations yet don't celebrate what we have here in the UK.


We can learn so much from theses ponies but they are seriously under threat.
Click to expand...

Amen to that! Hill ponies are bloody brilliant and the vast majority are well put together in body and mind. I think an awful lot of people, even locals are ignorant to the amount of care that farmers actually put into the stock.
 
happyhacking:) said:
1) Because the bottom has dropped out of the market due to the recession. When you can pick up much larger breeds for practically nothing how the hell are these ponies going to get a look in?
2) because at some point the decision was made to exclude them from mountain and moorland completions so cannot be shown.
3) this problem isn't new it's just organisations are doing more and more to find homes for the ponies and find long term solutions to the problems on the moor. This creates publicity and naturally there will always be some form of backlash against them. We cannot win last year we were being criticised for charging people for the ponies we were rehoming despite us microchipping, passporting and worming the ponies driving miles and miles to organise ponies prior to collection and providing a huge amount of training and support to the new owners.
Click to expand...

ref your point 1, where do you draw your statement regarding large breeds of native ponies being sold for a pittance? This is very misleading and quite untrue, unless you are referring to 'native type' which are NOT pure bred

point 2, these mixed bred ponies have never been allowed to appear in mountain and moorland competitions, they are NOT a recognised breed and never have been so.
 
There are good and bad ponies out on the moor, and yes farmers do tend to know their ponies lines going back through the generations BUT there doesn't appear to be a market for them. Here's the auctioneers report for the October 2013 sale... Note there are two sales each autumn now, there used to be three until a couple of years ago. http://templatev2.rt-sb.net/agents/36537/cmp/pdf/Market Report Pony Sale 2013.pdf
 
Spot_the_Risk said:
There are good and bad ponies out on the moor, and yes farmers do tend to know their ponies lines going back through the generations BUT there doesn't appear to be a market for them. Here's the auctioneers report for the October 2013 sale... Note there are two sales each autumn now, there used to be three until a couple of years ago. http://templatev2.rt-sb.net/agents/36537/cmp/pdf/Market Report Pony Sale 2013.pdf
Click to expand...

I bought a well bred Dartmoor pony (Sire Moortown Master Craftsman) from the Tavistock Pony Auction some 5 years ago. He was thin, covered in fleas and lice and had a terrible worm burden. We didn't realise how good his breeding was at the time, he was such a poor example, a real ugly duckling. I envisage the breeder must have thought he wasn't good enough and left him on the moors. He has turned out to be an incredible pony, who loves life and although we haven't shown him, he is a very quality pony. His forte is dressage and is proving to be a fantastic BYRDS pony, is part of a Team Quest under 16 team which will be competing in the finals this November. We also acquired a 'hill pony' at the same time to help Charlotte Faulkner out, who works tirelessly with ALL Dartmoor ponies. This pony also turned out to be a fantastic child's pony. I think it's very sad that these ponies are possibly going to end up on someone's dinner plate, but what does concern me is the 'rogue' stallions which have ended up on the moors, are not Dartmoor ponies in any way what so ever, and are 'diluting' the heritage/traditional breeding lines which in turn is causing the typical Dartmoor pony to be not as desirable. These rogue stallions need eradicating. I do agree the stallions in general need to be castrated or culled. Leave a quality stallion(s) to introduce/maintain better quality ponies. Dartmoor pure breeds, Dartmoor Hill ponies all have a useful life as a child's riding pony, but the spotted/coloured/Shetland type Dartmoors are not true to breed so they should be removed from the moors. Long live the Dartmoor pony.
 
The big differences between the DHP and the other M&M's is that a) there is no breed standard b) there are no show classes for them at HOYs.

The market for registered ridden M&M's is actually good fueled by the increase in popularity of showing and that they can be shown by both adults and children.

The new forest and exmoor breeding schemes are completely different. The new forest society inspects the stallions before they go out and they are also checked by a vet too, ensuring only the more suitable end up on the forest so the forest bred ponies are now good quality ponies often as good as if not better than a lot of the stud breed ponies.

Until there is some regulation of the breeding of the DHP and some quality assurance then they are unlikely to be very popular. Marketing them as meat ponies is not going to help promote their virtue as ridden ponies. The best option would be to limit the number of stallions out there, and have a breed standard and only put out stallions that will pass a vetting and meet the required standard. A pure bred registered Dartmoor will be more marketable so if ponies need to be out there for conservation/tourist attractions then farmers should be encouraged to put out registered Dartmoor rather than random ponies of which there are enough of being bred off the moors as well as on them. Dartmoor should not be used as dumping ground for unsaleable ponies.
 
Justturnedfifty said:
I bought a well bred Dartmoor pony (Sire Moortown Master Craftsman) from the Tavistock Pony Auction some 5 years ago. He was thin, covered in fleas and lice and had a terrible worm burden. We didn't realise how good his breeding was at the time, he was such a poor example, a real ugly duckling. I envisage the breeder must have thought he wasn't good enough and left him on the moors. He has turned out to be an incredible pony, who loves life and although we haven't shown him, he is a very quality pony. His forte is dressage and is proving to be a fantastic BYRDS pony, is part of a Team Quest under 16 team which will be competing in the finals this November. We also acquired a 'hill pony' at the same time to help Charlotte Faulkner out, who works tirelessly with ALL Dartmoor ponies. This pony also turned out to be a fantastic child's pony. I think it's very sad that these ponies are possibly going to end up on someone's dinner plate, but what does concern me is the 'rogue' stallions which have ended up on the moors, are not Dartmoor ponies in any way what so ever, and are 'diluting' the heritage/traditional breeding lines which in turn is causing the typical Dartmoor pony to be not as desirable. These rogue stallions need eradicating. I do agree the stallions in general need to be castrated or culled. Leave a quality stallion(s) to introduce/maintain better quality ponies. Dartmoor pure breeds, Dartmoor Hill ponies all have a useful life as a child's riding pony, but the spotted/coloured/Shetland type Dartmoors are not true to breed so they should be removed from the moors. Long live the Dartmoor pony.
Click to expand...

Your Dartmoor pony will never have run on dartmoor.

With regards to the spotties, coloureds and Shetland types a) they would have been on the moor as they were used in the mines and b) out of all the ponies that sell at the moment the coloureds and spotties are the first to go!
 
SO1 said:
The big differences between the DHP and the other M&M's is that a) there is no breed standard b) there are no show classes for them at HOYs.

The market for registered ridden M&M's is actually good fueled by the increase in popularity of showing and that they can be shown by both adults and children.

The new forest and exmoor breeding schemes are completely different. The new forest society inspects the stallions before they go out and they are also checked by a vet too, ensuring only the more suitable end up on the forest so the forest bred ponies are now good quality ponies often as good as if not better than a lot of the stud breed ponies.

Until there is some regulation of the breeding of the DHP and some quality assurance then they are unlikely to be very popular. Marketing them as meat ponies is not going to help promote their virtue as ridden ponies. The best option would be to limit the number of stallions out there, and have a breed standard and only put out stallions that will pass a vetting and meet the required standard. A pure bred registered Dartmoor will be more marketable so if ponies need to be out there for conservation/tourist attractions then farmers should be encouraged to put out registered Dartmoor rather than random ponies of which there are enough of being bred off the moors as well as on them. Dartmoor should not be used as dumping ground for unsaleable ponies.
Click to expand...

Dartmoor stallions ARE inspected prior to them going on the moor as are the mares.
There is no breed standard because there has not been one type on the moors for hundreds of years. The different types are spread over wide sections of moor and so there's not a huge deal of cross over. In the areas round the old mines there's are naturally more Shetland types as well as on the higher ground. Further down are the larger ponies which we plus have been used as transport for farmers, miners and anyone else living and working on dartmoor. The ponies all have their place on the moor.
There have been occasions where horses have been dumped on the moor but they are usually removed quickly as they tend to stick out like a sore thumb on the moor as they are not part of a herd, are not branded and don't know the terrain. You can't just put a pony up there. In order for them to survive they need to have learned from their mothers the landscape, safe places to escape the weather, places to find fresh water, ways to cross a bog.

A registered Dartmoor would not survive on the moor they are not designed for the conditions and would perish on their first winter.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
ref your point 1, where do you draw your statement regarding large breeds of native ponies being sold for a pittance? This is very misleading and quite untrue, unless you are referring to 'native type' which are NOT pure bred

point 2, these mixed bred ponies have never been allowed to appear in mountain and moorland competitions, they are NOT a recognised breed and never have been so.
Click to expand...

I suggest you go to welsh sales, new forest sales ect and see the true picture. Dartmoors are not the only ones who are struggling. And why stop at natives there's been no end of cheap horses flooding the market right up to thoroughbreds off the race track! I constantly see horses advertised as free or very cheap all over the place. The last sale I went too nothing even well put together school master types sold for more than £600
 
kez81 said:
Amen to that! Hill ponies are bloody brilliant and the vast majority are well put together in body and mind. I think an awful lot of people, even locals are ignorant to the amount of care that farmers actually put into the stock.
Click to expand...

It's so sad it's got to this. I have seen farmers on the verge of tears at loosing their herds. Many are holding on because they don't want to be the ones who let things decline and let down their ancestors who have collectively put huge amounts of work into these ponies.
Meanwhile they are struggling with tb in their cattle falling prices for their sheep. It's a wonder they are surviving. None are rich and splashing the cash about.
 
happyhacking:) said:
A registered Dartmoor would not survive on the moor they are not designed for the conditions and would perish on their first winter.
Click to expand...

Rubbish - there are two herds of pure bred dartmoors that live on dartmoor all year round and cope fine. A couple have been killed in road accidents but none lost to the conditions on the moor.

The type of dartmoor hill pony has seriously gone down hill in the last 20 years, one batch of this years foals I've seen are particularly bad. They are coloured but not got anything else going for them. A few mares have really bad overshot teeth which they seem to pass onto offspring, they don't seem to be any worse condition than the others so it isn't stopping them eating but highly desirable.
 
I couldn't agree with Catroo more.

I don't get down to Dartmoor much so the difference hits me straight in the eye but the standard of ponies has gone so downhill it's unbelievably sad to see the rubbish that is turned out there now. The farmers might not want to give them up but they should at least ensure that what they do turn out on there is of the correct conformation and type and not the ugly rubbish they're turning out now. I also can't understand why the Park Authority ever allowed coloured ponies onto the moor at all even from the beginning as none of them are bringing anything other than colour to the mix as they are all so bad in their conformation and constitution. There seems no difference to those and the Bodmin ponies, no distinguishing features to say they are a type and belong where they are; the Exmoors belong to Exmoor and the pure bred Dartmoors belong to Dartmoor but the others all belong in a can if what I've seen is anything to go by.
 
Maesfen said:
I couldn't agree with Catroo more.

I don't get down to Dartmoor much so the difference hits me straight in the eye but the standard of ponies has gone so downhill it's unbelievably sad to see the rubbish that is turned out there now. The farmers might not want to give them up but they should at least ensure that what they do turn out on there is of the correct conformation and type and not the ugly rubbish they're turning out now. I also can't understand why the Park Authority ever allowed coloured ponies onto the moor at all even from the beginning as none of them are bringing anything other than colour to the mix as they are all so bad in their conformation and constitution. There seems no difference to those and the Bodmin ponies, no distinguishing features to say they are a type and belong where they are; the Exmoors belong to Exmoor and the pure bred Dartmoors belong to Dartmoor but the others all belong in a can if what I've seen is anything to go by.
Click to expand...

in that case all 5 of mine belong in a can!!! Thankfully I was able to see further and realise what nice ponies they actually could be. How can you make the general statement that they are bad in constitution?

It is clear from your comments that you don't get down to Dartmoor much nor have you taken many of these ponies on. Coloured ponies/foals find homes. Plain brown ones are more problematical.
As for show classes at HOYS then if you have that in mind I suspect you would pay somewhat more than you would expect to pay for a hill pony.

People who have little experience are happy to comment that in general these ponies are rubbish. It is therefore suprising that people who have actually taken them on either through sales, through private sales, through HOPE, through DPTC say exactly the opposite. In fact most are saying what fantastic ponies they have turned out to be.

There are purebred Dartmoors turned out near me. The only thing seperating them from the fields that they would otherwise live in is a wall. They manage perfectly OK in exactly the same way as the hill ponies.
The problem is that we are simply breeding too many horses/ponies and other animals of all types (including humans). We breed a surplus and they are not valued. Perhaps if we bred less of everything we would place more value on their lives.
 
happyhacking:) said:
Your Dartmoor pony will never have run on dartmoor.

With regards to the spotties, coloureds and Shetland types a) they would have been on the moor as they were used in the mines and b) out of all the ponies that sell at the moment the coloureds and spotties are the first to go!
Click to expand...

Well if he hadn't spent time out on Dartmoor he certainly looked like he had. At aged 2.5 years he was in very poor condition. I was also under the impression that purebred Dartmoors often grazed the moors, especially if they belonged to a local farmer who was involved with the conservation scheme? What makes me sad is this pure bred Dartmoor was being sold in the Tavistock Auction, along with the coloureds and spotties. We were lucky as was he, we bought him for a whole £31.62 after tax!
 
catroo said:
Rubbish - there are two herds of pure bred dartmoors that live on dartmoor all year round and cope fine. A couple have been killed in road accidents but none lost to the conditions on the moor.

The type of dartmoor hill pony has seriously gone down hill in the last 20 years, one batch of this years foals I've seen are particularly bad. They are coloured but not got anything else going for them. A few mares have really bad overshot teeth which they seem to pass onto offspring, they don't seem to be any worse condition than the others so it isn't stopping them eating but highly desirable.
Click to expand...


This, I also thought there were two herds slightly contained on the moor?
 
happyhacking:) said:
Dartmoor stallions ARE inspected prior to them going on the moor as are the mares.
There is no breed standard because there has not been one type on the moors for hundreds of years. The different types are spread over wide sections of moor and so there's not a huge deal of cross over. In the areas round the old mines there's are naturally more Shetland types as well as on the higher ground. Further down are the larger ponies which we plus have been used as transport for farmers, miners and anyone else living and working on dartmoor. The ponies all have their place on the moor.
There have been occasions where horses have been dumped on the moor but they are usually removed quickly as they tend to stick out like a sore thumb on the moor as they are not part of a herd, are not branded and don't know the terrain. You can't just put a pony up there. In order for them to survive they need to have learned from their mothers the landscape, safe places to escape the weather, places to find fresh water, ways to cross a bog.

A registered Dartmoor would not survive on the moor they are not designed for the conditions and would perish on their first winter.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I don't believe you. The difference between Hill Ponies and Pure Breeds in SOME cases is simply a different passport. A Dartmoor if born outside would survive because it knows no difference. Agree a stabled, rugged, fed showing Dartmoor would struggle, as would any other 'show' pony. If he hadn't spent time out on the moors why was he thin? Covered in fleas and lice and diagnosed with a high worm count? Bear in mind we bought him in the November, it's highly probable we rescued him before the worst of the winter weather. Charlotte Faulkner bought him to our attention because he was the only 'papered' Dartmoor at the auction. He certainly looked no different to a true Moors pony.
 
happyhacking:) said:
It's so sad it's got to this. I have seen farmers on the verge of tears at loosing their herds. Many are holding on because they don't want to be the ones who let things decline and let down their ancestors who have collectively put huge amounts of work into these ponies.
Click to expand...

Bit late for that now, I think the decline has already happened. What is wrong with them keeping a few of the best mares of their stock and turning them out on the moor for a few years and leaving them barren?

As have always been localish (somerset) I know a few DHPs and a few nice smart ones but I think they are outnumbered by the rest.
 
There is certainly one pure bred herd near Widecombe, I see them most weeks and they generally look well. I've had three hill ponies via Charlotte Faulkner. They were nice natured ponies, a bay filly, tiny, who we taught to lead, had her regularly wormed, trimmed etc, sent her back to Charlotte at three years ready to back and sell, but she went straight out onto the moor and was caught, and was sold in foal, and two coloured geldings who were ironically named after handbag designers... We didn't name them BTW! All these three were small ponies, nothing special to look at but not bad, no idea where any of them are now. I think the DPHT are a good middle man, don't have to be pure bred but have to be a useful true to type pony - a pony that can do a job.
 
I'm going to as a question, it's a genuine one and not one designed to provoke outrage, I suppose it's more than one question but they are closely linked.

Would it be such a bad thing if we just let the Dartmoor Hill Pony die out? We live in a time of extreme equine overpopulation and overbreeding. No one wants a DHP, the only people that generally buy them are kill buyers or someone wanting to save ponies from the kill buyers. What is so special about them that people are fighting to find any kind of balance between reduction of numbers but having enough numbers to continue the "blood lines". The harsh reality is nothing, they serve no true purpose, no one really wants them, there is no market for them, sure they can make good kids ponies but so can many other ponies, they aren't even a true breed. What would be so wrong with bringing them down, castrating them all, selling what they can and allowing the rest back on the moors knowing they won't breed, selling more the following year and so on until the DHP is no more?

As Cortez said, there is no demand so why breed them. Why not accept it's an end to the DHP?
 
happyhacking:) said:
Dartmoor stallions ARE inspected prior to them going on the moor as are the mares.
There is no breed standard because there has not been one type on the moors for hundreds of years. The different types are spread over wide sections of moor and so there's not a huge deal of cross over. In the areas round the old mines there's are naturally more Shetland types as well as on the higher ground. Further down are the larger ponies which we plus have been used as transport for farmers, miners and anyone else living and working on dartmoor. The ponies all have their place on the moor.
There have been occasions where horses have been dumped on the moor but they are usually removed quickly as they tend to stick out like a sore thumb on the moor as they are not part of a herd, are not branded and don't know the terrain. You can't just put a pony up there. In order for them to survive they need to have learned from their mothers the landscape, safe places to escape the weather, places to find fresh water, ways to cross a bog.

A registered Dartmoor would not survive on the moor they are not designed for the conditions and would perish on their first winter.
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A registered Dartmoor would not survive on the moor? Please tell me what is required to survive?
 
Queenbee said:
I'm going to as a question, it's a genuine one and not one designed to provoke outrage, I suppose it's more than one question but they are closely linked.

Would it be such a bad thing if we just let the Dartmoor Hill Pony die out? We live in a time of extreme equine overpopulation and overbreeding. No one wants a DHP, the only people that generally buy them are kill buyers or someone wanting to save ponies from the kill buyers. What is so special about them that people are fighting to find any kind of balance between reduction of numbers but having enough numbers to continue the "blood lines". The harsh reality is nothing, they serve no true purpose, no one really wants them, there is no market for them, sure they can make good kids ponies but so can many other ponies, they aren't even a true breed. What would be so wrong with bringing them down, castrating them all, selling what they can and allowing the rest back on the moors knowing they won't breed, selling more the following year and so on until the DHP is no more?

As Cortez said, there is no demand so why breed them. Why not accept it's an end to the DHP?
Click to expand...

I believe they (equids on dartmoor) are required for conservation purposes, to keep down the gorse. Accepting that, it would be better for the ponies which were there to have a value in themselves rather than just their work, as it were. However there does seem to be a problem with the turning out (or dumping) of total random ponies at the very least, and a lack of consistent quality in the remainder. I think a breed does need some consistency in order to find and sustain a market for their use.
However in my mind the best way to encourage this improvement would be to fund the removal of the less desirable animals. (fair price, slaughter for meat in this country, export carcass if required) And if the farmers do wish to continue, perhaps some improver stallions (perhaps registered dartmoor or another native breed) could be used to benefit the breed/ type. It does seem a bit of a bargain basement of mismatched parts at the moment.

I also think for release onto the hills they should be ear tagged and non tagged adult ponies shot. If they are to recover a decent market. Harsh, but the current situation is untenable.

As horses are not currently subject to the livestock regulations that defra impose on sheep and cattle, they are easier to keep in that regard. Plus less risk of disease transmission (cross species), to other farm stock. And amoral people are less likely to shoot and eat them (than cows or sheep), as it stands at the moment.
I'm sure deer would do similar but I believe they are more prone to transmitting diseases. And they'd stay away from the most public places, which is typically the ones one would want the conservation efforts in.

Sorry, essay.
 
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