***Daughter and Dolly - hay and outlines!!!***

redmone said:
Hi Kat!

I'm not sure the haybar would work (yes, they most likely would let us install one) as I thought (and this may be me being stupid) that hay was put in haynets as it can be soaked to avoid ponies getting a cough? That's just my understanding....perhaps I'm wrong.

They might let us lower the ring (OH could do it definately) but would that then pose a risk of getting feet caught?

If hay can be given dry, then perhaps it'd be ok on the floor....???

RM
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Sorry cross posted!

You can feed soaked hay from the floor, one on our yard has soaked hay, it is soaked in the net then emptied into a large trug and put in her stable. More work but doable.

Does dolly need her hay soaking? Is it for weight management or is the hay dusty or does she cough? If the hay is good you may not need to soak it.

The ring needs to be high enough so that she won't get her feet caught but otherwise as low as possible. Having it too high risks dust and seeds going in her eyes as well as neck issues. If she is unshod and you use a small hole net you can probably get away with having it pretty low. I tie my nets onto bailer twine so that it breaks if the horse gets caught (she's caught her rugs straps on hay nets in the past).
 
I would offer my opinion but between Kat, Amymay and DH, you've got it covered :D

Always nice to see miniRM and Dolly pics though, and I like her additions to the traffic light system :p
 
Sorry - not read all replies so sorry if it's been said....can the hay go on the floor?
I happily fed mine from the floor for a while - only stopped because I wanted to slow her scoffing so went back to nets (no appreciable change to her neck)
 
As a small adult I have ridden a few children's show ponies recently which had the opposite problem of overbending or having their nose behind the verticle. I don't know it for a fact but suspect this has been partially caused by overuse of gadgets. I think overbending can be a worse problem from a safety point of view, as if something goes wrong, there is nothing in front of the saddle to support you- or that's what it can feel like, anyway and I don't especially like it.

No major thoughts on haynets, except I do think it is more natural for horses to eat the majority of their food from ground level, but if she gets a lot of turnout with grass/hay on the floor (not necessarily at this time of year but in general) then I think a haynet whilst she is in won't do her any harm.

ETA: She is an awesome looking pony and your daughter is obviously tallented.
 
Thanks for all the replies everyone.....choccy bunnies for ALLLLLL!!!!! :D

Will reply in full later (when it's less likely I will get caught skivving at work on here!!) but in short, I think the general opinion is that it's more important that she's enjoying herself and got Dolly listening to her, than what her head is doing.

Which is my thoughts exactly! It's got to be FUN!!!

Will investigate why hay is put in nets and see if it can go on the floor. That would be the ideal I think. :)

Thanks all.....speak later! :D
 
forget the outline comments and let your daughter have fun. the outline will come when she has learnt how to ride her forwards to the contact and is strong enough to do it until then the pony is fine as she is. one thing that may be easier than getting the outline would perhaps be to ask for more bend (whole body not just neck) as that would loosen the neck and body and even with the nose out a bit would give a nicer impression especially on circles. the alternative would be to send the pony here for a few years schooling and I could play ponies :D
 
crabbymare said:
forget the outline comments and let your daughter have fun.
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I couldn't agree more!!! Your daughter has one of the better all round postures I've seen on here - right on the money mouth, hands, elbow and good body in movement ( first photo ) may be toes in and up a touch ( but what the hell!) - sweet pony too.

Forget the dressage comments ( they're all written out the night before anyway!) and go in for achievement classes - you know the sort - jumping over things faster and faster or putting flags in a bucket - looks just the ticket to me!
 
Thanks for all the comments everyone, you are very kind!

I'm on my tablet and have just learnt that I can't quote on here which is most upsetting, that in addition to no smilies???!!!! FGS!!!!

I dont think the hay is being soaked so suspect the haynets might be because of hay getting mixed with shavings, which looking at her tonight, is justified!!! The hay seems brilliant quality and Dolly seems to like it!

I like the idea of a strap to drop the hay net a bit, I think that's the best overall solution!! Thank you person above who I can't quote (grrrr!!!) For this suggestion!

I'm definately in the "more fun, less outline" camp! I'm quite shocked at how much its emphasised by judges. I know perhaps they're right to mark down (and done consistently that's fine) but does it really have to be in almost every comment box on the test sheet? Maybe its just me being protective but I just think accuracy, good rhythm and tidy riding is more important, at daughters stage anyway.

Youve all been so lovely about daughters riding-thank you. I feel I'm letting her down a bit at the moment as she's looking to me for a direction to go in, and I just don't know what to suggest.

Dressage-we have the outline problem. Jumping-we have the dirty stops. They do well showing (Pelham and double reins help with the outline if she does show hunter pony) but we had to get rid of lumps before they could do that again, and now dollys rubbed a patch of hair off her bum so arrrrrgh!!! Daughters friend is doing bsja but we don't have a life height cert for Dolly. Perhaps we should get one and try to aim for something really good this year. I know she hasn't got forever left on Dolly....I want to make it special for her!

Who'd have thought I'd be asking stuff like this two years ago!!! Heheheh!!!

Xxx

PS caramel bunnies robbed by daughter, we're back on left over Xmas after eights!!
 
an old way for me to teach any horse to yeld to the bit, stand by her and just gently play with her bit, with a bit of pressure aimed towards her chest, as she gets the idea change your hands to standing beside her and having your hands over her withers, or you could have daughter aboard and you give a gentle wiggle and then daughter takes over..

also long reining will help, BUT if a rider on.. or long reins then work on a circle.

rather than the old fashioned way of "sawing" Hold the outside ride in a constant contact and then ask dolly with the inside rein to soften and bend, give and take with the fingers rather than pull on the rein (that gives you sawing) this can be done on the long reins, if ridden then legs etc can come in use to, so in effect your asking pony to soften rather than bring her head in which will happen naturally

i hope ive made sense lol im rubbish at explaining what i mean.
 
Continue to have fun! Lovely pony, I think as adults we forget that children find it hard to hold the pony on their leg for an outline. Plenty of shapes, small circles to get her hind leg under her.
 
No that makes sense and I've seen her instructor do that with her-she sometimes walks alongside her doing that.

Thanks for your advice, daughter occasionally pops on here to read what I've been saying about her (lol!) So I'll make sure she reads your post. It must be such a hard thing to teach, I wouldn't have a clue what to do when I'm in the saddle! I'm still struggling with stopping ponies snatching the reins off me! Cheeky beggers have me sussed out!!!

Thanks again x
 
Thanks monkeybum! (Lol funnier typing name out than just quoting!)

She is a brave one! No problem with heights of jumps at all, dolly would be something very special if only she'd give the dirty stops up!!!

Well she's special to us anyway ; ) xcc
 
Hello:D

Just replied to your FB message then saw this.:)

Dont worry about the outline thing one day it will just click.

I tried teaching Louise it a few months back, she did really well in Pony Club dressage shows getting high marks. So stupidly we went to some open prelim tests and she got lots of nose poking remarks, even though Star was working well behind ect. So i thought right she can have a go at the 'outline' stuff. Anyway daughter got bored, i got bored trying to make and pony wasnt really playing either. So i just carried on telling her to keep her soft contact and legs on keeping Star bouncy (my way of explaining it to a little person);).
And bingo this week she was riding round and Star just dropped her head and daughter had a big grin!!! So it will come naturally. And Star has a haynet so dont worry!!!;)

Try and have a look for some pony club run dressage shows. Or if you know your area number i will look for you. They are marked i think alot better for children, they dont focus on outline, just backend engadged and being accurate and they like a bit of bending round there legs.:)


Dont worry about sweets for me i have a bumper bag of jelly tots!!!:p
 
As my instructor says to me you " Cant teach Feel" - your daughter is still young - I wouldn't get too hung up on it - they look like they are having too much fun doing alll sort of things - outline will come in time... its more important that they are both enjoying getting out & about.
 
They looks so brilliant together!

It's so refreshing hearing someone not hung up on an outline. I've often found when people stop worrying about where the head is eventually it will drop. She's doing such a good job it will come in time. :)
 
Hi Zoe!!!! Thanks for your message, will reply on fb tomorrow when I'm not on this damn tablet!!! I am shocked at how focused some judges are on it! I think it encourages the use if gadgets and sawing, and some kids obsession with outlines. We're not doing PC at the moment, the timings of the rallys just don't suit us. She was on a few rc dressage teams last year, that wasn't so bad, but some judges couldn't see beyond the outline thing and it did get us down.

Daughter has had a few "outline" lessons and it seems to be clicking a bit now, she does well not to get bored but to be fair the instructors are good with her. she has however worked out that if she has a really fast canter round then starts working on the outline, its easier! Also many looped serpentines help, erm sometimes not in trot....he he he!!! Not sure that's a good thing!!!!

I think we're going jumping this weekend lol!!!!

You can still have an after eight! : ) xxxxx
 
Thanks everyone!!! You have made me feel loads better that a) the haynets won't make much difference, b) outlines don't matter that much and c) your lovely comments about d + d!

YOure the best! Thank you! Xxxc
 
redmone said:
No that makes sense and I've seen her instructor do that with her-she sometimes walks alongside her doing that.

Thanks for your advice, daughter occasionally pops on here to read what I've been saying about her (lol!) So I'll make sure she reads your post. It must be such a hard thing to teach, I wouldn't have a clue what to do when I'm in the saddle! I'm still struggling with stopping ponies snatching the reins off me! Cheeky beggers have me sussed out!!!

Thanks again x
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why dont you ask for a couple of long reining lessons? even if its with daughter too ?
 
They make such a lovely pair and it's great that your daughter is just enjoying her pony and having fun. Keep it up! As long as daughter and Dolly are happy and enjoying being together then I don't think you have anything to worry about. They are an inspiration. :)
 
redmone said:
Hi Zoe!!!! Thanks for your message, will reply on fb tomorrow when I'm not on this damn tablet!!! I am shocked at how focused some judges are on it! I think it encourages the use if gadgets and sawing, and some kids obsession with outlines. We're not doing PC at the moment, the timings of the rallys just don't suit us. She was on a few rc dressage teams last year, that wasn't so bad, but some judges couldn't see beyond the outline thing and it did get us down.

Daughter has had a few "outline" lessons and it seems to be clicking a bit now, she does well not to get bored but to be fair the instructors are good with her. she has however worked out that if she has a really fast canter round then starts working on the outline, its easier! Also many looped serpentines help, erm sometimes not in trot....he he he!!! Not sure that's a good thing!!!!

I think we're going jumping this weekend lol!!!!

You can still have an after eight! : ) xxxxx
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You can still do the open pony club shows, there just like any other show just run by the pony club instead of another organiser and there more aimed at the kids. Plus they often have age sections so there competing with children of similar ages, i prefer that jumping and dressage.

Yer daughter seems to like it now she can understand it, when i first tried she just didnt so i gave up and let her hoony round instead!!:D

Yer i find that Stars better after a good bomb round its probaly cos theyve got there backend moving so its falls into place easier at the front end.

Are you!!! Hehe. Im having a quiet week. Found 4 shows for 1/2 term week and couldnt choose between them so were going to all of them!!!LOL:D
 
Maybe try feeding hay from the floor? I've been doing this more recently and mine seem to prefer it. The back lady said they seemed more relaxed through their polls too, although who knows, could've been something else :) Lovely pony though, and as the others say, I'm sure your daughter will develop a 'feel' in no time.
 
We have the same issue here...sigh.."head set" ....nothing to do with longitudinal suppleness/relaxation or accpetance of bit by connecting over the back...just get the head down

It is in the Adult Ammie classes as well
 
redmone said:
I'm definately in the "more fun, less outline" camp! I'm quite shocked at how much its emphasised by judges.
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Definately! I love top class dressage and my younger daughter went on to groom with a G.P. competitor and even had a spell writing for a G.P. judge so she often gives me sideways glances when I pillory judging - but they do ask for it many times. The biggest problem - is that the rider and horse is instantly recogniseable the minute they enter at "A" and many judges have already picked the winner by then!

I just think accuracy, good rhythm and tidy riding is more important, at daughters stage anyway.
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Much more.

Dressage-we have the outline problem. Jumping-we have the dirty stops. They do well showing (Pelham and double reins help with the outline if she does show hunter pony) but we had to get rid of lumps before they could do that again,
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No one had more "dirty stops" then daughter 2! It's nearly always because the horse, despite being fizzy , doesn't have the confidence in the rider on continuing over and getting to feel the subtle differences between being forward enough on the movement and not flying through its ears is..... well .. quite subtle and takes some learning. I was a hard task master on this point by making her carry on through all the tears and frustration. I also made her do it in an egg butt snaffle too!

Dolly!
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What a lovely and appropriate name!
 
1stclassalan said:
No one had more "dirty stops" then daughter 2! It's nearly always because the horse, despite being fizzy , doesn't have the confidence in the rider on continuing over and getting to feel the subtle differences between being forward enough on the movement and not flying through its ears is..... well .. quite subtle and takes some learning. I was a hard task master on this point by making her carry on through all the tears and frustration. I also made her do it in an egg butt snaffle too!

What a lovely and appropriate name!
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Thank you!!! She can be a Dolly, but also a ginger monster at times! :p

I completely agree with you about the dirty stops! And so does daughter! It's definately her! Generally when she believes she's going clear, she does, and when she thinks she's going to stop......I can see from the ground that she's just not riding as positively up to some jumps - I think she's holding back a bit in case of a stop, so she's got a chance to stay on! When Dolly does stop, she tends to duck out to the left and (as a poster ^^^^^ said) drop a cheeky shoulder and off pops Daughter! hehehehe!!!

Daughter has taken to carrying her whip in her left hand to help remind her to stay on course. That and KIIIIICK!!!!!!!

It's hard though isn't it. Another chicken or egg problem. Dirty stops = loss of confidence, loss of confidence = dirty stops!

Daughter's got to the point where she cares less about falling off and since then, has fell off less!! :)

Ponies eh!!! :D
 
redmone said:
Aww Amymay, I <3 you!!!



The obsession with outlines drives me mad. I recently saw (good choice of word there....) a child sawing away at a pony's mouth just to get the poor thing's head down. The pony had a naturally good shaped head and neck and I'm sure would have had no problem in the right hands....but god it made me cringe watching. For some kids, it's like the be all and end all.

:D





:D
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This is my pet hate, the sad thing is it isn't just children who ride like this!!!! Why oh why can't people have the patience to do things properly!! Your daughter looks just fine on Dolly, and most importantly they both look happy!!! :D
 
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